General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2022)

[jaysblue]

W's counted back den when dat ball gets hit.

 

Yup, pitcher wins were all that mattered when it came to a pay day for free agent pitchers. Winning 15 games was a huge selling point on the free agent market.

[Carp12]

If your kids are cute the best thing to do is get a ball before the game. Next best thing is to sit close to the field and have them toss one to you. I never went to a single game in my life without my kid getting a ball.

 

I’m not sure what the odds of getting a foul ball are but they aren’t good

 

Any recommendations on where to sit?

[Spanky99]

Any recommendations on where to sit?

 

200 level, 3rd base side. You'll still be able to bring your kids to the BP side, players are usually very accommodating.

[connorp]

Any recommendations on where to sit?

 

My son is 19 now. Most of those glory years of getting multiple games came before the mandatory netting. The secret used to be right behind dugout where the net stopped. Still the best section I think but not quite as easy to toss one to you between innings.

[jaysblue]

200 level, 3rd base side. You'll still be able to bring your kids to the BP side, players are usually very accommodating.

 

200 level at Rogers Centre is the best IMO. Don't have that stupid net as an obstruction, plus smaller level so less lines for washrooms and concessions. As well, some comfier seats if in the infield as well! TD area is sick as well, worth the extra bucks + a private entrance and private concessions and washrooms just for those sections!

[Spanky99]

200 level at Rogers Centre is the best IMO. Don't have that stupid net as an obstruction, plus smaller level so less lines for washrooms and concessions. As well, some comfier seats if in the infield as well! TD area is sick as well, worth the extra bucks + a private entrance and private concessions and washrooms just for those sections!

 

I've done it all, bro.

[RustyTrombone]

So Buster Olney mentioned the Jays as a team that other executives expect would make a run at Soto in a trade. On the 1% chance it would happen what would it look like?

 

Moreno + Orelvis + Tidemann + 2022 1st rounder + Espinal?

 

Tiedemann is looking like a lock to be a consensus top 75 prospect at least. Orelvis and Moreno already are top 30. Presumably our 1st rounder this year would be solid and then you get Espinal as well who is cheap, controllable and looks to be a minimum 2.5+ WAR player going forward so his value should be pretty high atm. Is it stupid to even think about this?

[max silver]

So Buster Olney mentioned the Jays as a team that other executives expect would make a run at Soto in a trade. On the 1% chance it would happen what would it look like?

 

Moreno + Orelvis + Tidemann + 2022 1st rounder + Espinal?

 

Tiedemann is looking like a lock to be a consensus top 75 prospect at least. Orelvis and Moreno already are top 30. Presumably our 1st rounder this year would be solid and then you get Espinal as well who is cheap, controllable and looks to be a minimum 2.5+ WAR player going forward so his value should be pretty high atm. Is it stupid to even think about this?

 

Soto is amazing no doubt but I wouldn't consider moving this level of major league and prospect capital out for one player. Does this actually make the team better beyond this season? Espinal has been playing at nearly a 5 win pace going back to last season and has nearly 5 years of remaining control, and Moreno looks to be on track to debut in MLB this season. Vlad and Bo are going to need long term deals sooner or later, and the available payroll as is may already have difficulty in supporting two long term mega deals, especially if low cost high impact options such as Moreno and Martinez are moved out. Soto would be another guy you would want to keep long term, especially if this is the type of return the Nationals would require.

[Jimcanuck]

Buster Olney lol

[jaysblue]

I've done it all, bro.

 

Plus easy access to WestJet Flight Deck to meet some nice single women at the game

[RustyTrombone]

Soto is amazing no doubt but I wouldn't consider moving this level of major league and prospect capital out for one player. Does this actually make the team better beyond this season? Espinal has been playing at nearly a 5 win pace going back to last season and has nearly 5 years of remaining control, and Moreno looks to be on track to debut in MLB this season. Vlad and Bo are going to need long term deals sooner or later, and the available payroll as is may already have difficulty in supporting two long term mega deals, especially if low cost high impact options such as Moreno and Martinez are moved out. Soto would be another guy you would want to keep long term, especially if this is the type of return the Nationals would require.

 

Ya thats why I was wondering if its worth the time for the Jays to even ask about Soto if the price would be something like that where its like our top 3 prospects plus a cheap above average big leaguer, even for a guy like Soto. At some point your just spending way too much of the future for a 2 year rental most likely.

[jaysblue]

Soto is one of those guys you go after if you know you can lock him up long term. Having him and Vladdy anchoring this lineup for the next decade! Two of the top 5 players in baseball!

[keggy]

Soto is amazing no doubt but I wouldn't consider moving this level of major league and prospect capital out for one player. Does this actually make the team better beyond this season? Espinal has been playing at nearly a 5 win pace going back to last season and has nearly 5 years of remaining control, and Moreno looks to be on track to debut in MLB this season. Vlad and Bo are going to need long term deals sooner or later, and the available payroll as is may already have difficulty in supporting two long term mega deals, especially if low cost high impact options such as Moreno and Martinez are moved out. Soto would be another guy you would want to keep long term, especially if this is the type of return the Nationals would require.

 

If a team is silly enough to trade an inner circle Hall of Famer in his prime, you drain the farm to get him.

[jaysblue]

If a team is silly enough to trade an inner circle Hall of Famer in his prime, you drain the farm to get him.

 

Guys like Soto, Acuna or Tatis are guys you would drain a farm system for if they ever became available.

[max silver]

If a team is silly enough to trade an inner circle Hall of Famer in his prime, you drain the farm to get him.

 

My point still stands that I don't think this type of trade actually makes the overall team better given how much value will need to be moved out and salary requirements necessary to keep this guy long term. Soto already turned down a $350 million contract, how do you expect to be able to sign both him and Vlad long term given how each player very well may require $400+ million deals? The team president is on record stating that the club will not be venturing into luxury tax territory for payroll so tying up $70 million annually on two players would greatly affect the ability to build a complete roster to surround these two players with. Shapiro has stated all along that one overall theme for the organization is sustainable winning. Blowing up the farm system and concentrating so many assets into one player would be completely against this philosophy. I would hate to see a stars and scrubs approach to filling out the roster becoming a necessity.

 

Let's hypothetically say Espinal is a 4 win player moving forward (this might actually be underselling his true potential), Moreno is a 3-4 win player as soon as next year, and Martinez is also a 3-4 win player as well. This would give you above average regulars at 3 positions on the diamond, and they would all likely be cheap as hell to boot. Perhaps there will be other prospects in the system who emerge as potential impact regulars but these are the two prospects who give you a shot for inexpensive star potential in the not too distant future.

[Dagagad]

I can’t really get my head around what Soto would cost. Possibly the best hitter in baseball. Two and half years left under team control, will be a free agent at 26. Has a profile that will age really well so teams will be offering massive contracts at that point. I guess that’s irrelevant though, you are trading for the two and half years, not what comes after.

 

If I’m Washington, I think I’d want basically all the top prospects and especially guys who are two years out rather than one. We might be able to keep Moreno if we have everything else. If I’m Toronto, I’d try to sell them on major leaguers with some control (Kirk, biggio, gurriel, etc) as part of the deal as a way to keep prospects with higher upsides who are close.

 

All in all, I don’t know if I’d give up Martinez, Moreno et Al for the simple reason that’s it’s unlikely that they would give soto 30m+ a year in 3 years and then give vlad 30m+ in 4. I’d rather roll the dice that Moreno or Martinez become a cheap star to extend the window.

 

Edit: I do see the argument tho that you’d rather have Soto than vladdy long term, so let him go after arb. However, you don’t have to give up assets to keep vladdy.

[Jimcanuck]

The farm could be replenished to a reasonable degree by the time Soto is a free agent. Both through draft and focus on player development / high performance team.

 

Having said that, would only trade for Soto if there is an agreement on an extension.

 

Getting Soto increases the chance Vlad / Bo can be extended at a reasonable price. Every player wants to be part of a dynasty.

[Dagagad]

The farm could be replenished to a reasonable degree by the time Soto is a free agent. Both through draft and focus on player development / high performance team.

 

Having said that, would only trade for Soto if there is an agreement on an extension.

 

Getting Soto increases the chance Vlad / Bo can be extended at a reasonable price. Every player wants to be part of a dynasty.

 

If I’m sotos agent, I want the extension to not be a cent less than what he’d get on the open market come free agency. So, 10/400 or something like that? Maybe 10/375. There’s no impetus on Soto to sign an extension. He’s going to make 60m just in arbitration at least over the remainder of his term.

 

I donÂ’t see how vlad and Bo could take big discounts to win if Soto is making that much money. Guys are competitive. I think you sign one and let the other go. Probably vlad.

 

Edit: I mean 10/400 starting after arb. I guess how it works is that they buy out arb years. So maybe, something like 14/450 including the bought out years.

[glory]

The farm could be replenished to a reasonable degree by the time Soto is a free agent. Both through draft and focus on player development / high performance team.

 

Having said that, would only trade for Soto if there is an agreement on an extension.

 

Getting Soto increases the chance Vlad / Bo can be extended at a reasonable price. Every player wants to be part of a dynasty.

 

I think you can rationalize trading the farm for Soto even without the extension as you'd be getting 3 chances to win a WS with him (assuming he's traded this trade deadline).

 

With that said, I don't think the Nats are going to move him this season. Maybe next trade deadline when he will have only 1.5 years of control left, but I guess it depends on whether the Nats want to outright tank.

[THANOS]

I can’t really get my head around what Soto would cost. Possibly the best hitter in baseball. Two and half years left under team control, will be a free agent at 26. Has a profile that will age really well so teams will be offering massive contracts at that point. I guess that’s irrelevant though, you are trading for the two and half years, not what comes after.

 

If I’m Washington, I think I’d want basically all the top prospects and especially guys who are two years out rather than one. We might be able to keep Moreno if we have everything else. If I’m Toronto, I’d try to sell them on major leaguers with some control (Kirk, biggio, gurriel, etc) as part of the deal as a way to keep prospects with higher upsides who are close.

 

All in all, I don’t know if I’d give up Martinez, Moreno et Al for the simple reason that’s it’s unlikely that they would give soto 30m+ a year in 3 years and then give vlad 30m+ in 4. I’d rather roll the dice that Moreno or Martinez become a cheap star to extend the window.

 

Edit: I do see the argument tho that you’d rather have Soto than vladdy long term, so let him go after arb. However, you don’t have to give up assets to keep vladdy.

 

Yeah, that doesn't seem affordable in prospect capital and payroll obligations, realistically.

 

2 and 1/2 years of Soto is Moreno, Martinez, Groshans, Tiedemann ++.

 

Then you have to pay him and Vlad for extensions. Both will be north of 30+ AAV for 10Y +.

 

You'll need to pass on extending Bo, Teo and many more players in the core, with no farm system or payroll to replenish them with above average players. Can you draft/sign/develop enough prospects in the time it takes Bo to leave in FA? That's the question and it's a helluva risk.

 

Short term, this would be fantastic though.

[Ehjays]

Yeah, that doesn't seem affordable in prospect capital and payroll obligations, realistically.

 

2 and 1/2 years of Soto is Moreno, Martinez, Groshans, Tiedemann ++.

 

Then you have to pay him and Vlad for extensions. Both will be north of 30+ AAV for 10Y +.

 

You'll need to pass on extending Bo, Teo and many more players in the core, with no farm system or payroll to replenish them with above average players. Can you draft/sign/develop enough prospects in the time it takes Bo to leave in FA? That's the question and it's a helluva risk.

 

Short term, this would be fantastic though.

 

Yeah the only way I see the Jays in on Soto is if the deal included Bo going the other way, Then you arent giving up as much prospect capital. Im not saying im for that, just stating the only way i see them in on Soto.

[mphenhef]

I feel like if you have the chance to add the best left handed bat in baseball to this lineup for 2.5 years you move mountains to make that happen. You can figure out the finances and other parts further down the road.

 

That being said, I don’t think it happens.

[THANOS]

Yeah the only way I see the Jays in on Soto is if the deal included Bo going the other way, Then you arent giving up as much prospect capital. Im not saying im for that, just stating the only way i see them in on Soto.

 

That's, honestly, very interesting.

 

Bo, Martinez & Pearson for Soto.

 

Do we and, more importantly, do the Jays and Nats FO do this?

 

Personally, I do this.

 

You need to buy into Espinal's 6 fWAR projection as what he is, and then you can move him to SS, and call up Groshans to play 2B.

[keggy]

My point still stands that I don't think this type of trade actually makes the overall team better given how much value will need to be moved out and salary requirements necessary to keep this guy long term. Soto already turned down a $350 million contract, how do you expect to be able to sign both him and Vlad long term given how each player very well may require $400+ million deals? The team president is on record stating that the club will not be venturing into luxury tax territory for payroll so tying up $70 million annually on two players would greatly affect the ability to build a complete roster to surround these two players with. Shapiro has stated all along that one overall theme for the organization is sustainable winning. Blowing up the farm system and concentrating so many assets into one player would be completely against this philosophy. I would hate to see a stars and scrubs approach to filling out the roster becoming a necessity.

 

Let's hypothetically say Espinal is a 4 win player moving forward (this might actually be underselling his true potential), Moreno is a 3-4 win player as soon as next year, and Martinez is also a 3-4 win player as well. This would give you above average regulars at 3 positions on the diamond, and they would all likely be cheap as hell to boot. Perhaps there will be other prospects in the system who emerge as potential impact regulars but these are the two prospects who give you a shot for inexpensive star potential in the not too distant future.

 

The key point for me is that historically the acquiring team almost never loses this type of trade. You can always rationalize the value of the prospects being traded, but at one point, guys like Andrew Miller, Cameron Maybin, and Alfonso Soriano all had huge trade value.

 

I'm comfortable putting Soto in the same conversation as guys like Cabrera and A-Rod at a similar age. Basically anyone except Guerrero is worth considering in trade (and Soto is better than Guerrero).

[Stangstag]

That's, honestly, very interesting.

 

Bo, Martinez & Pearson for Soto.

 

Do we and, more importantly, do the Jays and Nats FO do this?

 

Personally, I do this.

 

You need to buy into Espinal's 6 fWAR projection as what he is, and then you can move him to SS, and call up Groshans to play 2B.

 

I’d do that trade in a heartbeat. Don’t think that’s enough for Soto though. Maybe

Bo + Moreno + Pearson +

[THANOS]

This removes the need to pay Bo, which helps absorb some of a Soto extension. You also don't need to re-sign Teo, LGJ or Chapman since we still have Soto/Moreno/Groshans and others in the minors to reshuffle around so someone else plays in the OF.

 

This line-up looks disgusting for the foreseeable future

 

Short-term

1. CF Springer

2. LF Soto

3. 1B Guerrero Jr

4. RF Hernandez

5. SS Espinal

6. C Kirk/Jansen

7. 3B Chapman

8. DH Gurriel Jr/Kirk

9. 2B Groshans

 

Long-term

1. CF Springer

2. LF Soto

3. 1B Guerrero Jr

4. 3B Moreno

5. SS Espinal

6. C Jansen

7. RF Prospect???

8. DH Kirk

9. 2B Groshans

[THANOS]

I’d do that trade in a heartbeat. Don’t think that’s enough for Soto though. Maybe

Bo + Moreno + Pearson +

 

I would still do that. I'm buying into the idea of keeping Kirk and Jansen for C/DH, especially if we land Soto, so Moreno is replaceable or moves to 3B in my ideal line-up.

 

And then Martinez takes over 3B in my line-up above. ^

[Daniel Labude]

That's, honestly, very interesting.

 

Bo, Martinez & Pearson for Soto.

 

Do we and, more importantly, do the Jays and Nats FO do this?

 

Personally, I do this.

 

You need to buy into Espinal's 6 fWAR projection as what he is, and then you can move him to SS, and call up Groshans to play 2B.

 

Jays don't do that imo. Replace Martinez with Groshans and then possible

[The Cats Ass]

Soto and Guerrero could be our Manny and Papi. But better!

 

I'd be alright with a Bo + Moreno + Low minor lottery tickets deal.

[max silver]

Yeah the only way I see the Jays in on Soto is if the deal included Bo going the other way, Then you arent giving up as much prospect capital. Im not saying im for that, just stating the only way i see them in on Soto.

 

Very interesting suggestion, I think that makes a lot more sense than blowing up the entire farm system. The Nats still get a cornerstone player back in return as well as a few very good prospects as well.