General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2021)

[Olerud363]

I don't know how they're going to fix the bullpen this off season. They have a lot of guys coming back, but every one of them has taken their turn getting f***ed up this year at one point. Even Cimber who looked unhittable when he first came over has been getting his s*** pushed in lately. Romano is fairly steady I guess, but even he is outperforming his FIP/xFIP

 

Pouring money into it isn't a guarantee, and you can't make free agents sign with you anyways.

 

Merryweather being healthy would be a nice start, but that's about as likely as $1,000,000 flying out of my arsehole the next time I take a dump.

 

Relievers are weird though. I mean, Aaron Loup and Ryan Tepera are superstars this season.

 

Where does Tampa Bay get their relievers? Sign a couple free agents, turn a couple minor league starters like Hatch or Elvis Lucianno (sp?) into relievers. Maybe trade Grichuk or Jansen for some live arm... I don't know.

 

Sign extra starters and if no one gets hurt Pearson starts out as a reliever next year.

[Laika]

The key is to not overreact. Continue to stockpile good pitching depth from all avenues, make some responsible signings and or acquisitions, and it will work out fine. This year was mostly s*** luck.

[Stangstag]

The key is to not overreact. Continue to stockpile good pitching depth from all avenues, make some responsible signings and or acquisitions, and it will work out fine. This year was mostly s*** luck.

 

Agreed. I don’t want to see another Berrios type trade in the offseason unless its for a bonafide star. Even then, there’s going to be a salary crunch coming soon with Vlad/Bo/Teo/Manoah?? and it might just be better to continue hoarding prospects and league minimum players.

 

Don’t panic, trust the process.

 

Oh and please for the love of god FIRE CHARLIE

[Spanky99]

[Daniel Labude]

 

Otto should get a start, hopefully Sunday

[Stangstag]

Otto should get a start, hopefully Sunday

 

You mean Valera??

[Daniel Labude]

You mean Valera??

 

Otto Lopez

[Stangstag]

Otto Lopez

 

Yeah I was making a joke that Charlie will give Valera starts instead of Otto

[JaysAllMighty]

Otto should get a start, hopefully Sunday

 

Wonder how dumbtoyo will f*** up our chances this game. Very frustrating to watch that idiot.

[RobinThicc]

More likely the bullpen will f*** up the game.

[The Iceman]

I don't know how they're going to fix the bullpen this off season. They have a lot of guys coming back, but every one of them has taken their turn getting f***ed up this year at one point. Even Cimber who looked unhittable when he first came over has been getting his s*** pushed in lately. Romano is fairly steady I guess, but even he is outperforming his FIP/xFIP

 

Pouring money into it isn't a guarantee, and you can't make free agents sign with you anyways.

 

Merryweather being healthy would be a nice start, but that's about as likely as $1,000,000 flying out of my arsehole the next time I take a dump.

 

Relievers are weird though. I mean, Aaron Loup and Ryan Tepera are superstars this season.

 

Kendall Graveman: 37 G, 0.88 ERA

 

Aaron Loup: 48 G, 1.12 ERA

 

Dominic Leone: 35 G, 1.67 ERA

[Daniel Labude]

Otto Lopez

 

Crap, they sent him back down without a start and only 1 AB

[Spanky99]

Crap, they sent him back down without a start and only 1 AB

 

Weird. Who's are backup CF. Teo, lol.

[Stangstag]

Crap, they sent him back down without a start and only 1 AB

 

Told yall lol. Charlie is in love with Breyvic and his dashing good looks

[max silver]

Told yall lol. Charlie is in love with Breyvic and his dashing good looks

 

Breyvic helps Charlie feel better about himself as he's the one person on the team that's actually less attractive than Charlie. And that includes the dude with a horn growing out of his head.

[Brownie19]

Semien just passed Vlad in bWAR (or fWAR - whichever one that Fangraph uses) for the most from a positional player in MLB (positional - so I'm leaving Ohtani out).

[Jimcanuck]

Semien just passed Vlad in bWAR (or fWAR - whichever one that Fangraph uses) for the most from a positional player in MLB (positional - so I'm leaving Ohtani out).

 

b = baseball reference

f - fangraphs

 

fWAR is fangraphs

 

Normally getting huge break outs like Vlad, Semien, and Ray puts a team in the playoffs, Dumtoya and stupid BP management has negated this huge advantage.

[Stangstag]

b = baseball reference

f - fangraphs

 

fWAR is fangraphs

 

Normally getting huge break outs like Vlad, Semien, and Ray puts a team in the playoffs, Dumtoya and stupid BP management has negated this huge advantage.

 

Extremely frustrating season. Obviously you don’t expect Vlad to be this good next year, and its uncertain if Semien and/or Ray will be back.

 

We’ve also had pretty great health from the starting rotation (minus Pearson if that even counts) and really Springer is the only impact position player that went down for an extended period of time.

 

Bullpen injuries were pretty bad but expecting Merryweather and Yates to stay healthy was a huge gamble. Injuries can always derail a season but the good teams don’t use it as an excuse and power through it.

 

Its gonna be tough to come out ahead next year even with an improved bullpen.

[glory]

Extremely frustrating season. Obviously you don’t expect Vlad to be this good next year, and its uncertain if Semien and/or Ray will be back.

 

We’ve also had pretty great health from the starting rotation (minus Pearson if that even counts) and really Springer is the only impact position player that went down for an extended period of time.

 

Bullpen injuries were pretty bad but expecting Merryweather and Yates to stay healthy was a huge gamble. Injuries can always derail a season but the good teams don’t use it as an excuse and power through it.

 

Its gonna be tough to come out ahead next year even with an improved bullpen.

 

Agreed, and on top of that, the team decided to hold on to vets + add at the deadline (which happened to be the biggest seller's market since forever), so they'll lose Semien/Ray for just comp picks, and don't have Martin/SWR to use in trades. Hopefully, Berrios has a big free agent year, but even then, he's essentially replacing Ray who has been excellent this season. Improving next season is still very possible, but they didn't do themselves any favors.

 

The key to competing in the AL East is to be definite in action. If you're a playoff long shot, then turn short term assets into long term assets. If you're legitimately in it, then try to make a real run. The Jays were a playoff long shot (run differential or not, they were behind, what, 4-5 teams?) with the absolute realistic best case scenario being a WC spot. Expecting a 2015 2nd half type of run every time the team greatly underperforms their RD is simply not a smart strategy.

 

This season has been frustrating on so many different levels despite some great individual performances.

[Laika]

Agreed, and on top of that, the team decided to hold on to vets + add at the deadline (which happened to be the biggest seller's market since forever), so they'll lose Semien/Ray for just comp picks, and don't have Martin/SWR to use in trades. Hopefully, Berrios has a big free agent year, but even then, he's essentially replacing Ray who has been excellent this season. Improving next season is still very possible, but they didn't do themselves any favors.

 

The key to competing in the AL East is to be definite in action. If you're a playoff long shot, then turn short term assets into long term assets. If you're legitimately in it, then try to make a real run. The Jays were a playoff long shot (run differential or not, they were behind, what, 4-5 teams?) with the absolute realistic best case scenario being a WC spot. Expecting a 2015 2nd half type of run every time the team greatly underperforms their RD is simply not a smart strategy.

 

This season has been frustrating on so many different levels despite some great individual performances.

 

I could not disagree with this more. Toronto was in the mix with like 50% playoff odds and they were one of the best looking teams of that mix.

 

They have choked hard in the last couple of weeks but that does not mean the process was bad. They should be buying every time in that type of situation.

 

Honestly, this organization has made the playoffs 8 times since 1977. Five of those were 29+ years ago and one of those was a fake playoff entry (2020). So two legitimate playoff teams since 1994. And people get mad when they buy at the deadline? Loser mentality.

[Krylian]

 

Who couldve possibly seen this coming???

 

What's the % that we never see Merryweather throw another pitch for the Toronto BlueJays.

[Buster]

I could not disagree with this more. Toronto was in the mix with like 50% playoff odds and they were one of the best looking teams of that mix.

 

They have choked hard in the last couple of weeks but that does not mean the process was bad. They should be buying every time in that type of situation.

 

Honestly, this organization has made the playoffs 8 times since 1977. Five of those were 29+ years ago and one of those was a fake playoff entry (2020). So two legitimate playoff teams since 1994. And people get mad when they buy at the deadline? Loser mentality.

 

they weakened their chances next year, for a questionable strategy this year.

 

buying this year was premature

[Krylian]

they weakened their chances next year, for a questionable strategy this year.

 

buying this year was premature

 

Berrios was a purchase for this year and next.

[Buster]

Berrios was a purchase for this year and next.

 

The assets accumulated by trading Semian and Ray would have been very useful to pick up something at the deadline next year (or maybe to help out next year). This year was a seller's market.

[glory]

I could not disagree with this more. Toronto was in the mix with like 50% playoff odds and they were one of the best looking teams of that mix.

 

They have choked hard in the last couple of weeks but that does not mean the process was bad. They should be buying every time in that type of situation.

 

Honestly, this organization has made the playoffs 8 times since 1977. Five of those were 29+ years ago and one of those was a fake playoff entry (2020). So two legitimate playoff teams since 1994. And people get mad when they buy at the deadline? Loser mentality.

 

I would have agreed with you if the trade market resembled 2017-20 where teams held on to prospects/young players. At least then you could say it wouldn't have made a difference trading Semien/Ray for more McKinney, Merryweather, Kay, etc, types. But this trade deadline was a rare situation where teams were more willing to trade higher ranked young players. I'm sure the front office discussed every possible scenario internally but there was absolutely no chance they were going to actually sell and everyone knew it. If you ask me whether I would have rather kept Semien for 2 more months while trying to dig out of a hole and hoping 4 other teams regressed, or traded him for (as an example) Nick Madrigal who could have helped the 2022 team reach the playoffs for $650k, or Pete Crow Armstrong who they could have either tried to develop or traded in a package for a difference maker, etc, etc, it would be hard to find the former option that appealing by comparison. If the Jays were in the AL Central, then it's a different ball game. In the AL East, you have to be a little more creative. Ask yourself, what would the Rays have done in that same situation (ignoring the financial side of things)? The Yankees had no choice but to try to improve because they had no tradeable assets except their best player (Judge). They have to squeeze whatever they can out of their current group. The Jays were a lot more flexible roster-wise.

[gruber92]

they weakened their chances next year, for a questionable strategy this year.

 

buying this year was premature

 

There's a good chance Martin and SWR turn out to be nothing, both have concerning flaws. The chances of us extending Berrios are pretty good, considering he'll be here another year and seems like he's comfortable here.

[Laika]

they weakened their chances next year, for a questionable strategy this year.

 

buying this year was premature

 

Definitely not true about 2022. It would not be reasonable to expect Martin and SWR to outperform Berrios.

[Laika]

I would have agreed with you if the trade market resembled 2017-20 where teams held on to prospects/young players. At least then you could say it wouldn't have made a difference trading Semien/Ray for more McKinney, Merryweather, Kay, etc, types. But this trade deadline was a rare situation where teams were more willing to trade higher ranked young players. I'm sure the front office discussed every possible scenario internally but there was absolutely no chance they were going to actually sell and everyone knew it. If you ask me whether I would have rather kept Semien for 2 more months while trying to dig out of a hole and hoping 4 other teams regressed, or traded him for (as an example) Nick Madrigal who could have helped the 2022 team reach the playoffs for $650k, or Pete Crow Armstrong who they could have either tried to develop or traded in a package for a difference maker, etc, etc, it would be hard to find the former option that appealing by comparison. If the Jays were in the AL Central, then it's a different ball game. In the AL East, you have to be a little more creative. Ask yourself, what would the Rays have done in that same situation (ignoring the financial side of things)? The Yankees had no choice but to try to improve because they had no tradeable assets except their best player (Judge). They have to squeeze whatever they can out of their current group. The Jays were a lot more flexible roster-wise.

 

Why should the Blue Jays, who have money, act like the Rays, who are poor and will always be poor?

 

Toronto can just buy guys like Ryu and Springer on the open market. They don't need to hoard prospects and collect years of control forever and ever.

[max silver]

I would have agreed with you if the trade market resembled 2017-20 where teams held on to prospects/young players. At least then you could say it wouldn't have made a difference trading Semien/Ray for more McKinney, Merryweather, Kay, etc, types. But this trade deadline was a rare situation where teams were more willing to trade higher ranked young players. I'm sure the front office discussed every possible scenario internally but there was absolutely no chance they were going to actually sell and everyone knew it. If you ask me whether I would have rather kept Semien for 2 more months while trying to dig out of a hole and hoping 4 other teams regressed, or traded him for (as an example) Nick Madrigal who could have helped the 2022 team reach the playoffs for $650k, or Pete Crow Armstrong who they could have either tried to develop or traded in a package for a difference maker, etc, etc, it would be hard to find the former option that appealing by comparison. If the Jays were in the AL Central, then it's a different ball game. In the AL East, you have to be a little more creative. Ask yourself, what would the Rays have done in that same situation (ignoring the financial side of things)? The Yankees had no choice but to try to improve because they had no tradeable assets except their best player (Judge). They have to squeeze whatever they can out of their current group. The Jays were a lot more flexible roster-wise.

 

I can think of no better way for the front office to have given a massive middle finger to the fans in Toronto attending the games than to have thrown in the towel at the trade deadline on a team that was well within striking distance . The team had been playing on the road for basically 2 years with a tremendous amount of excitement surrounding the team. This is ultimately an entertainment industry, and with some smart additions the team was poised to go on a run. Unfortunately that run seems to have ended with the Springer injury, but that was a circumstance that you wouldn't have necessarily expected unless you had a crystal ball available.

[connorp]

I could not disagree with this more. Toronto was in the mix with like 50% playoff odds and they were one of the best looking teams of that mix.

 

They have choked hard in the last couple of weeks but that does not mean the process was bad. They should be buying every time in that type of situation.

 

Honestly, this organization has made the playoffs 8 times since 1977. Five of those were 29+ years ago and one of those was a fake playoff entry (2020). So two legitimate playoff teams since 1994. And people get mad when they buy at the deadline? Loser mentality.

 

SP wasn’t the glaring need. They save maybe what, .5 runs per start from production they were getting from Matz and Strip for like 12 starts? (So 6 runs?)… semi-elite RP or bat would’ve been better

Edited August 23, 2021 by connorp