General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2021)

[Laika]

Springer is a long term signing. If Shatkins thought this was a win now year, then they are delusional. I assume they are being objective about where the Jays are on the curve. I guess if they want to cater to the fanbase instead of thinking long term they might be in buy mode. But this isn't the year.

 

Delusional? The team is full of talent and projected / projects well.

 

You sound like a jaded Leafs fan

[Buster]

Delusional? The team is full of talent and projected / projects well.

 

You sound like a jaded Leafs fan

 

No, I just think that I want the Jays to build a durable winner rather than a team that's always trading away assets.

 

The holes we would need to fill as buyers:

 

1. An entire bullpen

2. Back end of the rotation and rotation depth

3. A third baseman

4. Catcher: we have a starter that can't hit, and a bunch of guys whose experience you count in innings rather than games.

 

That's not a buy-at-the-deadline type of team that you can upgrade from .500 to a WS contender. It's not the window to buy this year.

[Daniel Labude]

Delusional? The team is full of talent and projected / projects well.

 

You sound like a jaded Leafs fan

 

Might want to get a software update for those projections

[Laika]

2nd best run differential in the division

5th best projected winning percentage in MLB rest of season

 

If you throw in the towel and sell Marcus Semien you're a cuck, lol. This is a buy at the deadline team objectively.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Do you try to bring Donaldson back at say...half his contract? And if so, what's the likely cost?

 

He's no MVP candidate anymore, but he'd be a way better option than anybody else the Jays have used at 3B this year.

 

Springer

Semien

Bichette

Vladdy

Teo

Donaldson

Kirk

Grichuk/Gurriel

Biggio

[ShowtimeBelli]

Do you try to bring Donaldson back at say...half his contract? And if so, what's the likely cost?

 

He's no MVP candidate anymore, but he'd be a way better option than anybody else the Jays have used at 3B this year.

 

Springer

Semien

Bichette

Vladdy

Teo

Donaldson

Kirk

Grichuk/Gurriel

Biggio

 

In what world is Vlad hitting 4th?

[Spanky99]

Do you try to bring Donaldson back at say...half his contract? And if so, what's the likely cost?

 

He's no MVP candidate anymore, but he'd be a way better option than anybody else the Jays have used at 3B this year.

 

Springer

Semien

Bichette

Vladdy

Teo

Donaldson

Kirk

Grichuk/Gurriel

Biggio

 

He just went down with another calf injury... I'll pass on "The Bringer Of Calf-Strains"

[Eat My Shatkins]

He just went down with another calf injury... I'll pass on "The Bringer Of Calf-Strains"

 

lol touche

[Scion]

2nd best run differential in the division

5th best projected winning percentage in MLB rest of season

 

If you throw in the towel and sell Marcus Semien you're a cuck, lol. This is a buy at the deadline team objectively.

 

What moves would you like to see the team make ahead of the deadline assuming they don't fall off a cliff?

[Olerud363]

2nd best run differential in the division

5th best projected winning percentage in MLB rest of season

 

If you throw in the towel and sell Marcus Semien you're a cuck, lol. This is a buy at the deadline team objectively.

 

Counterpoint is the 2016 Yankees. .500 team (albeit probably not with the talent of the 2021 Jays), sold at deadline (despite a year where 89 wins got the wild card), and got assets (Gleyber and others) for 2017-2021 run.

 

Trade Semien, Ray, Matz and other expiring contracts for assets, win-soon assets if you can, but that's not a requirement. Load up on a bunch of more prospects which can be used in trades for 2022.

[Olerud363]

If they don't get any closer to a play-off spot in the next month, I would trade expiring contracts for win-soon assets (unless they can work out a long term deal with Semien Ray).

 

It might be smart to load up on more prospects, then use those in trades for 2022.

[Laika]

Counterpoint is the 2016 Yankees. .500 team (albeit probably not with the talent of the 2021 Jays), sold at deadline (despite a year where 89 wins got the wild card), and got assets (Gleyber and others) for 2017-2021 run.

 

Trade Semien, Ray, Matz and other expiring contracts for assets, win-soon assets if you can, but that's not a requirement. Load up on a bunch of more prospects which can be used in trades for 2022.

 

Not comparable. Without looking, I'm guessing that Yankees team projected poorly and they were full of decrepit old farts. They probably had to retool or risk multiple years of mediocrity. Not the case with Toronto.

 

I mean it depends how they play from here to the deadline. If they tank hard then they should sell, sure.

[Laika]

What moves would you like to see the team make ahead of the deadline assuming they don't fall off a cliff?

 

I don't think they need any bats. Perhaps just a bench bat with great defensive skills.

 

Relievers might be all they need.

 

Could use one frontline starter of course but those are hard trades to make. Not sure they need to trade for SP depth - kind of depends on Pearson and the health of some other guys going forward.

[Jimcanuck]

No, I just think that I want the Jays to build a durable winner rather than a team that's always trading away assets.

 

The holes we would need to fill as buyers:

 

1. An entire bullpen

2. Back end of the rotation and rotation depth

3. A third baseman

4. Catcher: we have a starter that can't hit, and a bunch of guys whose experience you count in innings rather than games.

 

That's not a buy-at-the-deadline type of team that you can upgrade from .500 to a WS contender. It's not the window to buy this year.

 

Add a competent manager to that list.

[Jimcanuck]

Not sure what 2 months of Semien is worth in this market. Maybe a back of the Top 100 prospect, plus a low level lottery ticket?

 

Jays have a well stocked farm, the incremental value of a Semien return is not that great. If this was the Nats, worst farm system in baseball, deadline deals for prospects return a much higher incremental value.

[Laika]

Toronto has also drafted well recently so a pick from offering Semien a QO seems pretty solid.

[G-Snarls]

Not sure what 2 months of Semien is worth in this market. Maybe a back of the Top 100 prospect, plus a low level lottery ticket?

 

Jays have a well stocked farm, the incremental value of a Semien return is not that great. If this was the Nats, worst farm system in baseball, deadline deals for prospects return a much higher incremental value.

 

Could the Yankees ever use him

 

Not endorsing a trade at this point

 

I'm just sayin

[Olerud363]

Not comparable. Without looking, I'm guessing that Yankees team projected poorly and they were full of decrepit old farts. They probably had to retool or risk multiple years of mediocrity. Not the case with Toronto.

 

I mean it depends how they play from here to the deadline. If they tank hard then they should sell, sure.

 

You are right, they were old farts, but they had Aaron Judge, Gary Sanchez, Aaron Hicks, Luis Severino, ready for a 3-5 year run.

 

Funny thing is late July 2016 it was not apparent at all how close they were. However their trades got them Torres, Clint Frazier, Shefield (who was flipped for James Paxton), Mckinney (flipped for Happ).

 

Of course trades like that may not be available in 2021... or maybe they would with Ray and Semien and Matz.

 

If you can sign above and have money remaining for Bo/Vlad extensions, I'm fine with it. If you can't sign above I'm fine with re-loading. The prospects if not ready to help for 2022, can be used to get other things for 2022.

[Spanky99]

Not sure what 2 months of Semien is worth in this market. Maybe a back of the Top 100 prospect, plus a low level lottery ticket?

 

Jays have a well stocked farm, the incremental value of a Semien return is not that great. If this was the Nats, worst farm system in baseball, deadline deals for prospects return a much higher incremental value.

 

If that were to ever happen(not a chance), I believe Toronto would get more than that, Semien's at 3 WAR right now?

[The Iceman]

Buy

Sell

Hold

The jays won't do anything until other teams start selling BUT...

 

I vote sell. It would allow them to move on from bongo's who is the perfect second in command guy. And horrible front man.

Team is tied with Seattle and The Angels. HORRIBLE.

In a world where Randall has trade value I jump the moment that I can.

[Spanky99]

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/montoyo-theres-chance-springer-re-joins-blue-jays-baltimore/

 

“There’s a chance but I don’t really know,” Montoyo said when asked about Springer’s status for the weekend series Thursday night. “I haven’t talked to him. I know he felt good after his game today but I don’t know how he’ll feel tomorrow. So we’ll see, but there’s a chance of that of course.”

 

 

The video with Siddall on that link is good.

[Olerud363]

Not sure what 2 months of Semien is worth in this market. Maybe a back of the Top 100 prospect, plus a low level lottery ticket?

 

Jays have a well stocked farm, the incremental value of a Semien return is not that great. If this was the Nats, worst farm system in baseball, deadline deals for prospects return a much higher incremental value.

 

I agree that I wouldn't trade Semien in "this market". I'd only trade him if someone is willing to give decent long term pieces. Does it make sense for both sides?? 2 WAR in August and September and a potential flag in 2021 for one side... a key piece of the 22-25 run back at Rogers Center for the other.

 

It would have to be trades where the Blue Jays are very likely to win in long term WAR, but the 2 WAR from Ray/Semien, and key playoff contributions from those guys, are worth a team giving up a long term piece.

 

2016 Yankee trades or forget about it... which is fine too.

[BCZ]

this team suckka the big one

[Scion]

I don't think they need any bats. Perhaps just a bench bat with great defensive skills.

 

Relievers might be all they need.

 

Could use one frontline starter of course but those are hard trades to make. Not sure they need to trade for SP depth - kind of depends on Pearson and the health of some other guys going forward.

 

I think I agree with that, though I wouldn't mind a Bryan Reynolds type if the cost makes sense. There is too much uncertainty with Gurriel and Grichuk for my liking, both run extremely hot and cold.

Edited June 18, 2021 by Scion

[wilko]

Toronto has also drafted well recently so a pick from offering Semien a QO seems pretty solid.

 

Yup. I would listen to offers but if there's not much at the deadline (if the Jays sell), I'd just keep him and give him the QO in which he will probably reject to get the pick.

[BTS]

Position players don’t really return much at the deadline recently. It’s not clear that the return would be better than the comp pick.

[Brownie19]

Position players don’t really return much at the deadline recently. It’s not clear that the return would be better than the comp pick.

 

When was the last time a top 10 positional player was dealt at the deadline on an expiring contract? He could make a major impact for a playoff team and hopefully would be worth something very valuable in return (not that I'm saying we should deal him).

[connorp]

When was the last time a top 10 positional player was dealt at the deadline on an expiring contract? He could make a major impact for a playoff team and hopefully would be worth something very valuable in return (not that I'm saying we should deal him).

 

Machado comes to mind.

[Buster]

I'm ambivalent on whether or not Semian should get traded because I don't know the return.

 

But exchanging assets/balance sheet for wins now in general doesn't seem like a smart organizational decision. How to maximize Semian's post trade-line WAR is beyond my pay grade, but I assume that Shatkins can find a way to shift Semian's wins to next year or the year after.

[bones10]

30+ runs against the Orolies this weekend would put me in a good mood.