Around Baseball 2021

[Eat My Shatkins]

He let Giles go way too long in that first series against Tampa that year (or was it 2020?) when he was clearly injured too. Velocity was down and he was visibly in discomfort. We ended up losing that game I believe.

 

Charlie is an idiot because he makes the same mistakes multiple times without learning.

 

Charlie is a bitch because he’s too afraid to take his struggling relievers out of the game (Giles, Chatwood)

 

Yep, the one against Tampa was last year.

 

He pretty much f***ed Giles out of a premium closer contract all by himself with his misuse and abuse.

[Abomination]

SO you're saying that the rule should be that if a team wanted to, they could remove Ohtani from the game as the P and his spot in the order just turns into the DH, where he could remain, while other pitchers come in to pitch?

 

I'm saying the pitcher never has a spot in the batting order. They would be treated as a special case. So Ohtani would be the DH who just happens to be filling a dual role and also be pitching. If someone else came in to pitch, it would have no impact on anything else. Ohtani would still be the DH and would no longer be pitching. Once he left as a pitcher though, he couldn't come back and pitch again in the same game.

 

I don't know if it's a good idea or not, but it would make some degree of sense.

[John_Havok]

I'm saying the pitcher never has a spot in the batting order. They would be treated as a special case. So Ohtani would be the DH who just happens to be filling a dual role and also be pitching. If someone else came in to pitch, it would have no impact on anything else. Ohtani would still be the DH and would no longer be pitching. Once he left as a pitcher though, he couldn't come back and pitch again in the same game.

 

I don't know if it's a good idea or not, but it would make some degree of sense.

 

Couldn’t happen, it would give a massive advantage to the team with the unicorn over and above the extra roster spot they essentially already have.

[Abomination]

Couldn’t happen, it would give a massive advantage to the team with the unicorn over and above the extra roster spot they essentially already have.

 

I don't know. I think in the next few years we could see more utility type guys pitching regularly in blowouts. It would also potentially encourage the development of more guys that can play both sides.

[John_Havok]

I don't know. I think in the next few years we could see more utility type guys pitching regularly in blowouts. It would also potentially encourage the development of more guys that can play both sides.

 

I think Ohtani himself is already encouraging that, but whatremains to be seen is whether it can be sustained long term before one skill set or the other breaks down to the point where it’s no longer worth it. Or…injury. Usually we see more specialization from player development in sports not less. This is simply because as sports evolve, individual skill sets have to be me more specialized in order to rise to the top. It’s very possible and extremely likely IMO that Ohtani is nothing but one side or the other within 2 seasons.

 

That’s said…I think a guy like Gose could easily be deployed defensively in the OF to enhance his value as a reliever. That kind of versatility I think is more likely.

[Dick_Pole]

I think Ohtani himself is already encouraging that, but whatremains to be seen is whether it can be sustained long term before one skill set or the other breaks down to the point where it’s no longer worth it. Or…injury. Usually we see more specialization from player development in sports not less. This is simply because as sports evolve, individual skill sets have to be me more specialized in order to rise to the top. It’s very possible and extremely likely IMO that Ohtani is nothing but one side or the other within 2 seasons.

 

That’s said…I think a guy like Gose could easily be deployed defensively in the OF to enhance his value as a reliever. That kind of versatility I think is more likely.

 

I agree to that last sentence. If you're a fringe RP that is replaceable by a million other arms like yourself, your best hope of sticking might be some additional marginal benefit you provide as a late inning defensive replacement or base runner.

[Spanky__99]

Have a night Haniger, 2, 3 run bombs so far!

[Stangstag]

Have a night Haniger, 2, 3 run bombs so far!

 

Seattle really gonna sweep Oakland again aren’t they

[G-Snarls]

Seattle really gonna sweep Oakland again aren’t they

 

Oakland now no chance of making the post season

[TheHurl]

I think Ohtani himself is already encouraging that, but whatremains to be seen is whether it can be sustained long term before one skill set or the other breaks down to the point where it’s no longer worth it. Or…injury. Usually we see more specialization from player development in sports not less. This is simply because as sports evolve, individual skill sets have to be me more specialized in order to rise to the top. It’s very possible and extremely likely IMO that Ohtani is nothing but one side or the other within 2 seasons.

 

That’s said…I think a guy like Gose could easily be deployed defensively in the OF to enhance his value as a reliever. That kind of versatility I think is more likely.

 

I may or may not have told this story here but I had a conversation with a member of the Rays F.O. They had a plan to keep any 2 way draftees who were drafted as batters, on a light (could be once a week, maybe more maybe less) pitching program. With a utopian result being that the big league club could pull a position player at any time to pitch to a single batter (with the pitcher taking some safe defensive position) and then put the pitcher back in to continue the game. MLB caught wind, MLBPA filed a grievance (which is a weekly thing for the Rays) and then the MLB rule in March 2019 was put in, changing the plans.

 

Another fun Rays idea was to have a different defensive alignment for every hitter which MLB said they would fine them millions for.

[King]

I may or may not have told this story here but I had a conversation with a member of the Rays F.O. They had a plan to keep any 2 way draftees who were drafted as batters, on a light (could be once a week, maybe more maybe less) pitching program. With a utopian result being that the big league club could pull a position player at any time to pitch to a single batter (with the pitcher taking some safe defensive position) and then put the pitcher back in to continue the game. MLB caught wind, MLBPA filed a grievance (which is a weekly thing for the Rays) and then the MLB rule in March 2019 was put in, changing the plans.

 

Another fun Rays idea was to have a different defensive alignment for every hitter which MLB said they would fine them millions for.

 

So like, a tandem start?

 

Hypothetically, if you were facing a team with elite hitters 1 through 5 and scrubby hitters 6 through 9, you could have Max Scherzer pitch to the guys 1 through 5, then switch him out for a reliever on 1B for the bottom of the order hitters. Then switch back again Lol

 

Is that allowed?

[TheHurl]

So like, a tandem start?

 

Hypothetically, if you were facing a team with elite hitters 1 through 5 and scrubby hitters 6 through 9, you could have Max Scherzer pitch to the guys 1 through 5, then switch him out for a reliever on 1B for the bottom of the order hitters. Then switch back again Lol

 

Is that allowed?

 

Not any more because of the 3 batter rule but their thoughts were more like having McKay in the OF. Your pitcher isn't very good against lefties but McKay excels. McKay comes into face the lefty the pitcher goes to the field and comes back in. Then say three batter later Cronenworth (who was still with the Rays when this was told to me) comes in to face the the RH Batter who is bad against the Spliter.

 

Now imagine them having 5 or 6 guys that can do that. Just more 1% stuff that would entertain me but make the old f***s (not that I'm not that) butt hurt.

[Stangstag]

Not any more because of the 3 batter rule but their thoughts were more like having McKay in the OF. Your pitcher isn't very good against lefties but McKay excels. McKay comes into face the lefty the pitcher goes to the field and comes back in. Then say three batter later Cronenworth (who was still with the Rays when this was told to me) comes in to face the the RH Batter who is bad against the Spliter. Just more 1% stuff that would entertain me but make the old f***s (not that I'm not that) butt hurt.

 

The Rays are everything that is wrong with Baseball

[TheHurl]

The Rays are everything that is wrong with Baseball

 

Exactly it leads to stubborn old f***s to tell everyone that baseball is now terrible.

[Brownie19]

I may or may not have told this story here but I had a conversation with a member of the Rays F.O. They had a plan to keep any 2 way draftees who were drafted as batters, on a light (could be once a week, maybe more maybe less) pitching program. With a utopian result being that the big league club could pull a position player at any time to pitch to a single batter (with the pitcher taking some safe defensive position) and then put the pitcher back in to continue the game. MLB caught wind, MLBPA filed a grievance (which is a weekly thing for the Rays) and then the MLB rule in March 2019 was put in, changing the plans.

 

Another fun Rays idea was to have a different defensive alignment for every hitter which MLB said they would fine them millions for.

 

Do you mean they'd play their best defender (say their shortstop) on the left side v. RHB and then move him over to the right side v. LHB? And move their best defensive OF between LF and RF depending on the batter? Man - that would really slow down the game, but I get it and am surprised nobody has ever done that.

 

If it's the bottom of the 9th in a tie game and the winning run is at 3rd with 1 out and a pull hitter comes up.....I definitely want to put my best 'arm' in LF and would like to switch the LF and RF if one has a significantly stronger arm than the other.

[Brownie19]

Not any more because of the 3 batter rule but their thoughts were more like having McKay in the OF. Your pitcher isn't very good against lefties but McKay excels. McKay comes into face the lefty the pitcher goes to the field and comes back in. Then say three batter later Cronenworth (who was still with the Rays when this was told to me) comes in to face the the RH Batter who is bad against the Spliter.

 

Now imagine them having 5 or 6 guys that can do that. Just more 1% stuff that would entertain me but make the old f***s (not that I'm not that) butt hurt.

 

The Cubs and Rays did some variation of this a few years back....but the RP just stayed in the game while a new RP came in...then they went back to pitching after a batter or two. Similar, just without using a positional player to pitch.

[jerb]

 

Jon Heyman

@JonHeyman

 

The Mets spent 103 days in first place, marking the most days in MLB history a team has been in first and finished with a losing record. (h/t @Joelsherman1 column)

[TheHurl]

Do you mean they'd play their best defender (say their shortstop) on the left side v. RHB and then move him over to the right side v. LHB? And move their best defensive OF between LF and RF depending on the batter? Man - that would really slow down the game, but I get it and am surprised nobody has ever done that.

 

If it's the bottom of the 9th in a tie game and the winning run is at 3rd with 1 out and a pull hitter comes up.....I definitely want to put my best 'arm' in LF and would like to switch the LF and RF if one has a significantly stronger arm than the other.

 

Yep. The shifts kind of already do this but this would be a complete switching positions for each batter. Would add huge value to Rays fantasy players who suddenly are every position but catcher. This one would slow down an already slow game and I understand why baseball put a stop to it. It is interesting that they seem to run their ideas past MLB before they implement. Also makes you wonder what else they would do without MLB interference.

[Dick_Pole]

I'm glad the MLB clamped down on the Rays. This isn't rocket science to be lauded. Anyone with a bit of baseball knowledge can come up with all sorts of schemes to skirt the "unwritten rules" that teams have abided by for decades. It's not smart. It's cheap. And it hurts the integrity of the game for a minuscule advantage. Here's a novel idea. How about draft and develop pitchers who are good enough to get batters out in all sorts of scenarios? How about fielding players who are actually good in all aspects of defense? Oh yeah, I forgot. That would involve paying players with actual talent, something that the Rays can't do, but could if they weren't such a garbage franchise nobody cares about.

[glory]

Exactly it leads to stubborn old f***s to tell everyone that baseball is now terrible.

 

None of what they are doing appeals to a younger demo, so even if the old farts hate their ways, it's not like the young ones are going to gravitate to it, so who benefits from it? Not the sport, and not the fans. The league has to (justifiably) alter rules just to avoid the Rays making the game longer and more boring. Not a single positive comes from anything they do. If the players buy in to their BS, then good for them. I hope they enjoy being underpaid and/or thrown away the moment they make more than six figures.

[BCZ]

The Rays are everything that is wrong with Baseball

 

Bullet pts please... also in ELI5 format because I'm a dum dum

[King]

 

This is insane

[Jimcanuck]

Exactly it leads to stubborn old f***s to tell everyone that baseball is now terrible.

 

The reality is those kinds of move were the norm in the early days of baseball. The stubborn old f*** "purists" are wrong.

[Dick_Pole]

None of what they are doing appeals to a younger demo, so even if the old farts hate their ways, it's not like the young ones are going to gravitate to it, so who benefits from it? Not the sport, and not the fans. The league has to (justifiably) alter rules just to avoid the Rays making the game longer and more boring. Not a single positive comes from anything they do. If the players buy in to their BS, then good for them. I hope they enjoy being underpaid and/or thrown away the moment they make more than six figures.

 

Yeah I really don't get the "old f***s" comment. As if young people are going to like this? This is done for one reason and one reason only. To compete without paying players what they are worth. No fans are going to like or defend this except the select few who cheer for front offices and get a boner fantasizing over the optimal point of WPA per dollar spent on salary.

[BTS]

If I see 3 Rays outfielders take the binder out of their back pocket, flip through it and then jog into different spots on the field, I'm turning the game off.

 

It's already bad enough with catchers and pitchers having the hot/cold zones, wind direction, spin axis of the earth, etc. literally written on them. And Manfred wonders why there was no offence.

 

This is why I had no real problem with Kiermaier pocketing the cue card. I don't even really think they should be on the field in the first place.

[glory]

If I see 3 Rays outfielders take the binder out of their back pocket, flip through it and then jog into different spots on the field, I'm turning the game off.

 

It's already bad enough with catchers and pitchers having the hot/cold zones, wind direction, spin axis of the earth, etc. literally written on them. And Manfred wonders why there was no offence.

 

I'm actually surprised the cheat sheets aren't more hated by fans. I rarely see it brought up as an issue with the game, so maybe most fans don't care, but just looking at players on the field having scouting reports in their pockets is just a bad look, IMO. That's why in a way I was glad Kirk got his notes stolen just to show how stupid it is to bring them on the field to begin with, but I'm probably in the minority here.

[Dick_Pole]

Cheat sheets = okay

Rays trash ideas = mostly okay

Stealing signs the "natural" way = okay

Using technology of any sort = not okay, unless that technology is sticky stuff, then that's okay for a while, until it's not

Trash cans and buzzers = asterisk World Series and permanent trolling by fans/media/other players for cheating

Steroids = best hitter and arguably best pitcher over the last 40 years not allowed in HOF

 

The policing over the purity of the game makes no f***ing sense.

[Laika]

I'm not even in favour of the signs being in the pitcher's hat. You should be allowed nothing. If 2nd base picks up your signs, tough s***. More offence. Part of the game.

 

Keep the signs in your memory! That's part of being an athlete too. Intelligence.

 

Do you see Lebron stop the game to pull out a playbook at half-court? It's so stupid. Intelligent pitchers like Greinke should have a decided advantage. No wonder the Rays produce players like nothing, none of them have to actually think for themselves, or adapt or evolve or improvise.

 

Hey bud you have this specific arm slot so throw the ball here when the catcher looks at his notepad and tells you.

 

Even think about the viability of shifting when half your infield is too dumb to remember all the shifts. These teams are shifting based on the counts to individual hitters. You can do all kinds of s*** if it's written down in their back pocket. All this s*** ruins the game.

 

It's kind of weird the batters aren't yet looking at pitcher cheat sheets, in their helmets, in the middle of PAs.

 

Anyway, completely agree. The Rays would try to signal everything from the dugout still but the players are dumb so at least they would f*** up more often.

[Brownie19]

Do you see Lebron stop the game to pull out a playbook at half-court? It's so stupid.

 

The counter to this is that NFL QB's have a binder on their wrist and both the QB and the defensive captain have headsets so the team can call in a play. I've never heard anyone complain about that. Personally, I enjoy the back and forth strategies implemented within the game (in most/all sports). It's easy to say "well develop pitchers who can get both lefties and righties out" and "well develop better defensive players" - but why don't we say "well develop more advanced hitter who can exploit defenses and eliminate tendencies that allow shifts to be effective?"

 

Teams/Players using advanced technologies to gain an edge is definitely here to stay. Ipads are on the bench of all major sports now to provide instant feedback on what the other team is trying to do. Golfers now have books with slope %'s and such. I watched a video this morning of Brycen explaining how he uses slope, distance and speed to calculate where to aim.

 

That said - I'd rather it not effect the pace of the game...but we already have to wait for the 3rd base coach to give some signs after every pitch. If a catcher uses that time to reference his arm band - then I don't have an issue with that.

 

The pitchers going to their hat and changing the signs regularly is annoying - but that happens because teams have staff who are assigned to watch video and steal signs so their players can then steal signs while on 2nd base. Again - I doubt you're going to stop that....maybe we should throw more baseballs at players. Police the game yourself and send a message. I'm sure that will work

[Brownie19]

It's kind of weird the batters aren't yet looking at pitcher cheat sheets, in their helmets, in the middle of PAs.

 

I mean - they do...but it happens before the game (when facing the SP) and in the dugout before they face a RP. They are looking at Ipads to review release points and that pitchers tendencies early in the count and when they are ahead/behind. For a batter - they only have to remember a few things at once. For the catchers, they would have to remember every batter and the differences for each different pitcher they use. It's too much.

 

The alternative is a coach calls the game from the dugout - simply relaying the pitch call. You do see that. That would be somewhat similar to what we see in the NFL.