Robbie Ray back on a 1 year 8 million dollar deal.

[saskjayfan]

As bad contracts go, that is probably one of the better bad contracts in baseball.

 

Roark's contract was horrible. I hated it the minute was signed and made those thoughts known in the thread on here relating to it. Many thought it was fine. I don't feel that way about the Ray contract. It's nice to get some certainty early. It's a one year deal and Ray has some real upside.

[Key22]

I'm happy to have Ray back as long as he's plugged in as our 5th starter.

 

I never understood people who say we shouldn't care about money. The jays do not have an unlimited budget so its only fair that people can be upset at the allocation of the budget.

 

Guys like Roark and Grichuk are taking up 22 million currently. You're telling me we wouldn't be better if we used that money to land Springer at 22 million on a 5 year deal? That is why people can get upset at throwing money at inferior players.

 

I tend to agree - I would rather pay an elite talent $30m a year than 3 of Grichuck/Roark/Anderson are $30m when all three of these you can more or less replace off the scrap here for league minimum. Albeit with the benefit of hindsight that management didn't have at the time. At the time Grichuck was looking like a possible future Jose Bautista, Roark was a steady innings eater, and Anderson was looking like another Estrada in the makings. Gambles all but if Grichuck had turned out his deal would look like a supreme bargain - as it is he is living up to the contract mostly.

 

Toronto has the money to get anyone but anyone has to be willing to play in a minor league park next year. Toronto made the playoiffs but they're still a middle of the road team that only made it based on increased playoff team slots. So a pitcher who wants to WIN is still going to prefer to sign with LA or New York. If I am Bauer and LAD and NYY offer me $32 million a year for 5 years and Toronto comes to the table and offers me the same contract where do you think he's going to go? Plus, all the 25 year old women will be all over him in those two cities and in Toronto it would be like "who are you?" And Buffalo?

 

He would have greater sports apparel deals in those US cities as well. To land the top free agents Toronto has to overpay as they overpaid for Ryu. No one else would give him the fourth year.

 

One last point - if the Jays wait for Bauer and he signs in December - maybe the three other guys you want as back-ups sign elsewhere. So instead of Ray in the fifth starter slot you have Yamaguchi.

 

I think you try and sign the guys who are willing to pitch for Toronto and Ray has upside and electric stuff.

I'd like the Jays to sign Bauer but the chances are slim. I also would like to see Walker return. If they land both that's a heckuva good looking rotation.

[Deadpool]

But wouldn't you feel more comfortable at overpaying Bauer with the money used for Ray and replace him with a guy like Shoemaker or an equivalent talent? Just a Hypothetical since Bauer can say he doesn't care to actually come here.

 

Just haven't loved our use of money towards guys like Garica/Anderson/Roark. Its been like 45 million for those guys over a few seasons for nothing in return basically. Go overpay the elite talent's like Ryu using that wasted money instead.

 

I think Shoemaker would be a great fit if we bring him back as well, but he probably gets about ~$5M (though, who knows anything about this market really) so the difference of $3M is absolutely not going to make or break your chances with Bauer (and if it does, we likely don't have enough to spend to field a playoff team) if you like Ray more than Shoemaker (I don't claim to know who Shatkins prefer out of the two...)

 

If we're honestly worried about $3-4M in difference here, we're not going after Bauer regardless.

[Virgil_Hiltz]

I think Shoemaker would be a great fit if we bring him back as well, but he probably gets about ~$5M (though, who knows anything about this market really) so the difference of $3M is absolutely not going to make or break your chances with Bauer (and if it does, we likely don't have enough to spend to field a playoff team) if you like Ray more than Shoemaker (I don't claim to know who Shatkins prefer out of the two...)

 

If we're honestly worried about $3-4M in difference here, we're not going after Bauer regardless.

 

Would you not say most of the high priced talent will all get offered the big dollars so it may just come down to what team can be a winner. Having a solid but not overwhelming team will help attract quality high end players and getting solid and ok players like Ray helps to do this.

[G-Snarls]

I really wanted him back for a full season

 

Very happy with this

[G-Snarls]

8m = Usual fair market price for Ray - revenue uncertainty/Covid discount + cost of signing very early in the off season to a team that may not have been your first choice

[glory]

I don't disagree with those who want to aim higher, I am in the same boat, but I don't think they make this move if they felt it took them out of other bigger players. They got Anderson early last season at around the same cost and still spent over $106m total ($35m in 2020 money) on Ryu, Roark, and Yamaguchi after that. This is probably a combination of "a bird in the hand" and possibly buying low on a mid rotation starter who actually wanted to come back.

 

I have no idea if this will make a difference to other FA's, but players know that teams/owners are going to try to screw them more than usual this winter, so the Jays coming in this early in the winter and giving a player a contract that might be considered a bit of an overpay in today's Covid market certainly couldn't hurt in endearing them to other FA's. Doesn't mean they'll sign better players, but maybe gives the signal that they are one of the few teams that won't be as impacted by the Covid revenue losses.

[G-Snarls]

I like how Shapiro and Atkins try to fill obvious needs early and aggressively in the off season. They won't always get the best deal but they won't be left empty handed either

 

AA would usually wait so long that there was hardly anyone left to sign

 

You don't want to waste money and you can't have a bunch of bad contracts but this is a good time tk be aggressive. Money available to spend. Two bad teams in the division. Expanded playoffs. Talented young core. I like it

[saskjayfan]

I like how Shapiro and Atkins try to fill obvious needs early and aggressively in the off season. They won't always get the best deal but they won't be left empty handed either

 

AA would usually wait so long that there was hardly anyone left to sign

 

You don't want to waste money and you can't have a bunch of bad contracts but this is a good time tk be aggressive. Money available to spend. Two bad teams in the division. Expanded playoffs. Talented young core. I like it

 

That's not true. AA was very aggressive with early signings last year with Atlanta.

[Jays24]

I like how Shapiro and Atkins try to fill obvious needs early and aggressively in the off season. They won't always get the best deal but they won't be left empty handed either

 

AA would usually wait so long that there was hardly anyone left to sign

 

You don't want to waste money and you can't have a bunch of bad contracts but this is a good time tk be aggressive. Money available to spend. Two bad teams in the division. Expanded playoffs. Talented young core. I like it

 

Every time we make a move early in free agency, i get reminded of us signing Morales. Its not always a good thing lol.

[G-Snarls]

Every time we make a move early in free agency, i get reminded of us signing Morales. Its not always a good thing lol.

 

True

 

I didn't even mind the signing at the time but wow he wasn't worth a damn

[Brownie19]

Every time we make a move early in free agency, i get reminded of us signing Morales. Its not always a good thing lol.

 

Don't forget how they re-signed Happ and Estrada very early in free agency period after the 2015 season....they successfully jumped the market that year, got those 2 at reasonable contracts and they anchored the rotation to a 2016 playoff birth.

[Dick_Pole]

Jays don't move this fast on this deal without having complete confidence that they can work with the guy to bring him back to old form. People compare this to Happ/Estrada or Morales, which is fine. But this isn't a typical offseason. Things are widely expected to move slow. They aren't jumping the gun or misreading the market like with Morales, a consolation prize. They are making a move on someone they want to keep around.

[Jays24]

Jays don't move this fast on this deal without having complete confidence that they can work with the guy to bring him back to old form. People compare this to Happ/Estrada or Morales, which is fine. But this isn't a typical offseason. Things are widely expected to move slow. They aren't jumping the gun or misreading the market like with Morales, a consolation prize. They are making a move on someone they want to keep around.

 

Agree with you but how would we feel if guys like Klueber/Archer go for the same price in a few months. Does seem like things will move extra slow with most teams spending minimal on everyone but the top tier guys.

 

Let's see how the offseason unfolds though. Wont matter as much if we make bigger splashes like we're all expecting/hoping.

[max silver]

Agree with you but how would we feel if guys like Klueber/Archer go for the same price in a few months. Does seem like things will move extra slow with most teams spending minimal on everyone but the top tier guys.

 

Let's see how the offseason unfolds though. Wont matter as much if we make bigger splashes like we're all expecting/hoping.

 

There's nothing to say that the Jays can't bring one of those guys on board as well if they are interested in a reclamation project/potential bounce back. Ray has at least showed the ability to remain pretty healthy over the years, so you can view this as a Chase Anderson replacement with much more upside for less money.

[Dick_Pole]

Agree with you but how would we feel if guys like Klueber/Archer go for the same price in a few months. Does seem like things will move extra slow with most teams spending minimal on everyone but the top tier guys.

 

Let's see how the offseason unfolds though. Wont matter as much if we make bigger splashes like we're all expecting/hoping.

 

I would feel that the Jays felt that Ray has about the same probability of outcomes as Kluber or Archer for 2021. And if they got Ray money, that just means that teams aren't paying extra for a name. Look at projections or 2020 stats or durability. Not a major difference between the three guys.

[Grant77]

Don't forget how they re-signed Happ and Estrada very early in free agency period after the 2015 season....they successfully jumped the market that year, got those 2 at reasonable contracts and they anchored the rotation to a 2016 playoff birth.

 

Not a big deal, but those were both Tony LaCava according to the team.

[glory]

Agree with you but how would we feel if guys like Klueber/Archer go for the same price in a few months. Does seem like things will move extra slow with most teams spending minimal on everyone but the top tier guys.

 

Let's see how the offseason unfolds though. Wont matter as much if we make bigger splashes like we're all expecting/hoping.

 

It takes two to tango in free agency. If Kluber signs for 1/6 in San Diego (for example), it doesn't mean he would have taken 1/8 from Toronto. The pitchers looking at "pillow contracts" will probably be harder for the Jays to sign (AL East, facing the Yankees/Red Sox/Rays all the time, and now no clue where they'll play home games). Ray just happened to be someone who spent a few months with the Jays coaches and obviously felt comfortable. It's why I suspect they might circle back with Walker at some point if other options fail.

[Brownie19]

Not a big deal, but those were both Tony LaCava according to the team.

 

Acknowledged; however, Shapiro likely still signed off on it. I just don't like the "well last time we jumped the market, we got Morales" talk without acknowledging we've had success doing that also. We also don't talk about failures we've had when signing people later in the FA season. It's just an empty opinion IMO.

[Grant77]

Acknowledged; however, Shapiro likely still signed off on it. I just don't like the "well last time we jumped the market, we got Morales" talk without acknowledging we've had success doing that also. We also don't talk about failures we've had when signing people later in the FA season. It's just an empty opinion IMO.

 

I would agree with that. I thought that Morales was a big mistake at the time, but I don't that is indicative of any future success or failures that we may have. This is a unique offseason, so I'll give them the of the doubt as they navigate it.

[Krylian]

It's 1/8, you guys. There's not one thing to be mad at here.

 

 

I'll start by saying 1/$8M is fine for what Ray could potentially give you.

 

The only thing I would say is, do we know what our payroll is going to be for next season? If we still have a tight payroll to work with, how many Roark's and Ray's can we afford to have, who may end up being unusable? As long as we have enough flexibility that we can spend our way out of some of these potential mistakes come the deadline, I'm good with the moderate risk, high reward game.

[wilko]

I like this deal. Lots of upside for Ray. I wouldn't be mad if they offered Walker around the same.

[Terminator]

I'll start by saying 1/$8M is fine for what Ray could potentially give you.

 

The only thing I would say is, do we know what our payroll is going to be for next season? If we still have a tight payroll to work with, how many Roark's and Ray's can we afford to have, who may end up being unusable? As long as we have enough flexibility that we can spend our way out of some of these potential mistakes come the deadline, I'm good with the moderate risk, high reward game.

 

If payroll is tight then isn't a guy like Ray about as good as we'll be able to do anyway?

[Krylian]

If payroll is tight then isn't a guy like Ray about as good as we'll be able to do anyway?

 

I guess we'll see. Kinda contradicts what Shapiro said about going big this off-season.

[Spanky99]

I guess we'll see. Kinda contradicts what Shapiro said about going big this off-season.

 

How about giving them the off-season first, not a bad idea one would think, eh folks?

[Jays24]

Acknowledged; however, Shapiro likely still signed off on it. I just don't like the "well last time we jumped the market, we got Morales" talk without acknowledging we've had success doing that also. We also don't talk about failures we've had when signing people later in the FA season. It's just an empty opinion IMO.

 

Fair point. The Morales one was a lot worse because he was signed to take the place of a better player who was a Blue Jays fan favourite. Ray fills a need and isn't going to take away pitches from someone better at this stage.

[Brownie19]

Fair point. The Morales one was a lot worse because he was signed to take the place of a better player who was a Blue Jays fan favourite. Ray fills a need and isn't going to take away pitches from someone better at this stage.

 

I think that remains to be seen. Ray was horrendous last year. Everyone on the team was essentially better than Robbie Ray was in 2020 so he certainly could take away pitches from several players who are better than him.

[Krylian]

How about giving them the off-season first, not a bad idea one would think, eh folks?

 

Should we shut down the boards and open them up in the spring seeing as we're not allowed to discuss or speculate how things may go?

[Spanky99]

Should we shut down the boards and open them up in the spring seeing as we're not allowed to discuss or speculate how things may go?

 

Or say ... Jays ace?