Offseason Roster Thread (2020-2021)

[Abomination]

 

Scott Carson

@KOAS1963

 

According to @jonmorosi Japanese RHP Tomoyuki Sugano turned away from #BlueJays because he didn't want to "compete directly for a rotation spot with his former Yomiuri Giants teammate Shun Yamaguchi." #ScatchingHead

 

Well, that stings if true. Yamaguchi had better find it quick next year

 

I do think we'll see some big improvements from him, I'm just not sure they'll be big enough.

[Laika]

 

Scott Carson

@KOAS1963

 

According to @jonmorosi Japanese RHP Tomoyuki Sugano turned away from #BlueJays because he didn't want to "compete directly for a rotation spot with his former Yomiuri Giants teammate Shun Yamaguchi." #ScatchingHead

 

This is clearly post facto reasoning by Sugano. I don't believe this actually influenced his decision.

 

At the end of the day he took a record/mammoth NPD contract that he probably did not expect would be offered.

[Jimcanuck]

Roark or Yamaguchi? Who do you pick?

[Laika]

Roark or Yamaguchi? Who do you pick?

 

Roark. I'm excited to see that diesel truck get rolling in 2021, when Toronto will need him to devour a disgusting amount of horribly pitched innings. I want him to lead baseball in IP and then f***ing retire with a dead arm.

[Carlos Danger]

Roark or Yamaguchi? Who do you pick?

 

Dump em both and put in ACEucki!!

[wilko]

Roark. I'm excited to see that diesel truck get rolling in 2021, when Toronto will need him to devour a disgusting amount of horribly pitched innings. I want him to lead baseball in IP and then f***ing retire with a dead arm.

 

haha

[glory]

Roark or Yamaguchi? Who do you pick?

 

Roark might be better with a non regional schedule. He started 11 games last season, 10 of them against the AL East (3 vs NYY, 2 vs TAM, 3 vs BAL, 2 vs BOS). Throw in some Central and West teams into the mix, and he's probably around where he normally is, which is a boring and below average innings guy. Either way, I hope he's not in the rotation to start the season. Shun will be so far away from the rotation we won't even see him.

[Abomination]

Roark might be better with a non regional schedule. He started 11 games last season, 10 of them against the AL East (3 vs NYY, 2 vs TAM, 3 vs BAL, 2 vs BOS). Throw in some Central and West teams into the mix, and he's probably around where he normally is, which is a boring and below average innings guy. Either way, I hope he's not in the rotation to start the season. Shun will be so far away from the rotation we won't even see him.

 

Roark's profile has changed the last few years. His ground ball rate has plummeted (and is continuing to do so). I think someone who puts up an xFIP in the upper 4's is probably what we'll get from him, and that's probably no different from what Shun will provide in the same usage scenario now that he's had a year to adjust to the ball. I think Shun has a little higher upside though, if he can get ahead and start using that splitter as a proper weapon. The ideal scenario would be neither.

[Orgfiller]

Roark might be better with a non regional schedule. He started 11 games last season, 10 of them against the AL East (3 vs NYY, 2 vs TAM, 3 vs BAL, 2 vs BOS). Throw in some Central and West teams into the mix, and he's probably around where he normally is, which is a boring and below average innings guy. Either way, I hope he's not in the rotation to start the season. Shun will be so far away from the rotation we won't even see him.

 

I'd just like to interject with extreme pedantry and mention that who Roark "normally is" - rather, normally was - is actually a serviceable average to above innings eater. His career ERA- is 8% better than average, FIP- exactly average, and xFIP 3% worse than average and that's including the god awful 2020 season which definitely skewed those numbers in the wrong direction. Roark is older and probably sucks really badly now but for his career up to 2019 he was exactly what most teams would have wanted out of their #4/#5, a durable innings eater who keeps your team in the game most of the time. Not saying he was Jack Morris exactly but he was very valuable for the Nats.

[jerb]

 

Anthony Castrovince

@castrovince

 

FWIW, the Blue Jays were the runner-up for Francisco Lindor. Don't know specific players, but I'm told their offer had what is probably a higher ceiling yet was centered on long-term prospects. Cleveland chose the package from the Mets b/c it balanced short- and long-term help.

[Jays24]

 

Anthony Castrovince

@castrovince

 

FWIW, the Blue Jays were the runner-up for Francisco Lindor. Don't know specific players, but I'm told their offer had what is probably a higher ceiling yet was centered on long-term prospects. Cleveland chose the package from the Mets b/c it balanced short- and long-term help.

 

So no Gurriel?

[wilko]

So no Gurriel?

 

Doesn't sound like it.

[Jays24]

Doesn't sound like it.

 

Feels like the extension with Lindor was not guaranteed. Making that trade without one would be foolish for where we are in our process.

[G-Snarls]

Fine

 

Let's not be the "runner up" for George Springer

[Laika]

 

Anthony Castrovince

@castrovince

 

FWIW, the Blue Jays were the runner-up for Francisco Lindor. Don't know specific players, but I'm told their offer had what is probably a higher ceiling yet was centered on long-term prospects. Cleveland chose the package from the Mets b/c it balanced short- and long-term help.

 

very interestttttiiiingngngg

 

hmhmmhmhmhmhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Ray]

I hope the package gets “leaked” so we can see who was involved. Would be interesting.

[mellowgold]

The Jays: always the bridesmaid, never the bride.

[Jays24]

The Jays: always the bridesmaid, never the bride.

 

I was about to type those exact words lol.

[RobinThicc]

Cleveland is dumb

 

They're closer to a complete tear down and rebuild then they are a championship.

 

Shoulda took the higher ceilling package.

[glory]

Cleveland's been trying to blend helping the big league roster and farm system simultaneously in practically all their trades (Bauer, Kluber, Clev, Lindor), and it's probably lead to shittier deals because of it. In a way I get it because the Central is routinely so awful that they could trade a player and still win the division or WC, but I can't see them doing that with the current roster. They've stripped away too much talent in the last year+ and the White Sox/Twins should be a lot better than them.

 

Curious to know what the Jays offered.

[Laika]

Cleveland projects worse than the Twins/Sox but not by miles. They are a strong developmental org for pitching so they can also sometimes find more wins than expected. They should be trying to win.

[Carlos Danger]

Cleveland is dumb

 

They're closer to a complete tear down and rebuild then they are a championship.

 

Shoulda took the higher ceiling package.

 

They still have an awesome pitching staff with help on the way. They still have the best 3B and the guys they received from the Mets will be solid. Plus, they might not be done. A lot of solid FAs out there they might be able to afford and not Lindor dollars..

[Ryu In My House]

I was about to type those exact words lol.

 

Me too. I have no way of knowing for sure, but if feels like the Jays are always the team agents tease to get better deals for their clients with other teams.

[Ryu In My House]

Feels like the extension with Lindor was not guaranteed. Making that trade without one would be foolish for where we are in our process.

 

It was not, and with Lindor a player rep, the talk was there was no way in hell he's be extending, wanting to test FA instead. Lindor was a hard pass for me. Spring, when he signs with anyone other than the Jays, will be harder to take.

[Jays24]

It was not, and with Lindor a player rep, the talk was there was no way in hell he's be extending, wanting to test FA instead. Lindor was a hard pass for me. Spring, when he signs with anyone other than the Jays, will be harder to take.

 

Springer was the guy I've wanted all offseason. Now with Mets being potentially out, my hopes are almost too high here. For me, as long as we get 1 out of the big 4, I will be happy. We will know soon enough...

[Laika]

AJ Cole back on a minor league deal. *Chef kiss*

[G-Snarls]

AJ Cole back on a minor league deal. *Chef kiss*

 

Sweet!

[Spanky99]

AJ Cole back on a minor league deal. *Chef kiss*

 

Nothing wrong with that.

[Ray]

Springer was the guy I've wanted all offseason. Now with Mets being potentially out, my hopes are almost too high here. For me, as long as we get 1 out of the big 4, I will be happy. We will know soon enough...

 

I think the Mets are out on Springer too. Cohen has said that he's not against going over the tax, but it's unlikely to be the case in the first year. Plus, they probably want to keep payroll open for midseason additions. I do think they make another relatively significant addition. I wouldn't be surprised if they get Jackie Bradley Jr. for CF or Brad Hand for the bullpen. If I were them, I'd add another decent starter, because that's probably the area of least depth and most volatility. But I don't think they make another huge splash.

 

What's transpired in the market so far actually make me more confident that we'll land one of the marquee free agents. The Padres and Mets may have made their big moves through trades and might be out of the top end of free agent market. That's a great thing for us. Unless there is a team like the Giants or Nats that are willing to drop big cash overnight (haven't gotten that indication by reports), then there's going to be guy that falls right in our laps.

[Laika]

Nothing wrong with that.

 

It actually shows good judgement by the org. Non tendered h after a good season and got him back without committing a 26 man spot. Geniuses.