AL Wild Card Round: Toronto Blue Jays vs Tampa Bay Rays

[Krylian]

Yeah he froze him. That’s kind of point of swinging on hitters counts, so you don’t find yourself in that situation.

 

The point is you can't just swing at anything in a hitters count. He'd be on first if he showed a bit more control.

[dineke]

Obviously....but with 2 strikes you need to protect the zone and make contact, not just look for something to drive.

 

Teoscar is not the kind of hitter that can protect against a 100 mph fastball and also a breaking pitch while making contact. He had to choose one.

[Krylian]

Teoscar is not the kind of hitter that can protect against a 100 mph fastball and also a breaking pitch while making contact. He had to choose one.

 

But he does know how to take a walk.

[Ziggyy108]

Did Villar actually pack up his s*** and leave the bench when he got pinch hit for?

[Laika]

But he does know how to take a walk.

 

He's a hacker, not a walker. Have you seen his career / 2020 K and BB rates?

[connorp]

Did Villar actually pack up his s*** and leave the bench when he got pinch hit for?

 

Someone pointed out Covid rules I guess

[Stangstag]

If you’re swinging 3-0 it’s gotta be down the middle. Anything on the corners or borderline you should be taking

[Krylian]

He's a hacker, not a walker. Have you seen his career / 2020 K and BB rates?

 

His BB rate isn't 0, so he knows how to do it. He even walked earlier in the game. Hacker or not, he needs to be aware of the circumstance and adapt to what's in front of him.

 

I'm not saying this is the reason the game was lost. This is just a moment in time where a wrong decision was made imo.

[Stangstag]

but the pitch he's trying to hit is 100 mph.

 

Ok then by that logic, if he swings at a 100mph fastball in the dirt its ok because its 100mph

[Orgfiller]

If you’re swinging 3-0 it’s gotta be down the middle. Anything on the corners or borderline you should be taking

 

It's not as easy as you might think it is to determine if a 100 mph fastball with great spin will end up exactly where you want it.

[jerb]

[TheDragon]

Shoemaker is more then capable of going more then 3 great innings when he is on...he was on today. It's stupid but people will defend it, there is a medium between analytics and old school. We seem too rigid on the analytics side.

 

Blue Jays trying to do analytics is like Miley Cyrus trying to sing Smells Like Teen Spirit

[Laika]

RE: Shoemaker

 

I understand that anti-analytics people love anecdotes and examples. Here is a good one for the Shoemaker decision.

 

August 16th 2020 vs Tampa Bay

Matt Shoemaker pitches three perfect innings to start the game.

Comes out for the fourth. Out, single, walk (was ahead 0-2), strikeout (of a LHB on 5 pitches, so Shoemaker still looks great).... three run homer. Blink of an eye and he has a 6.75 ERA on the afternoon.

[connorp]

RE: Shoemaker

 

I understand that anti-analytics people love anecdotes and examples. Here is a good one for the Shoemaker decision.

 

August 16th 2020 vs Tampa Bay

Matt Shoemaker pitches three perfect innings to start the game.

Comes out for the fourth. Out, single, walk (was ahead 0-2), strikeout (of a LHB on 5 pitches, so Shoemaker still looks great).... three run homer. Blink of an eye and he has a 6.75 ERA on the afternoon.

 

There’s plenty of times when a guy like Ray looks good for 3 innings and then blows up. Nobody is saying he should be allowed to. Either pull them after 1 guy gets on. Or let him pitch with no more than 1 on base depending it’s it’s cheap hit or something with 2 outs.

 

I have no problem with Tampa style 3-3-1-1-1 but you need to have the personnel for it. Guys like AJ Cole are lifetime 5 FIP gas cans. You aren’t going to convince me that putting in AJ Cole is the best strategic decision over someone that’s dealing

[connorp]

If you want to make it about Shoemaker is he goes a little longer, between him and Ray you never see Cole. The more times you throw a gas can put there, the more chance one of them is going to be the 5 FIP guy he is. You ride the guy that’s dealing within reason (first sign of trouble)

[Deadpool]

Blue Jays trying to do analytics is like Miley Cyrus trying to sing Smells Like Teen Spirit

 

Honestly, that might be kinda awesome... I'd at least listen to it.

 

It's a tough as f*** song to cover well, 'cause if you don't completely nail it, you're just making the song worse, but she might put an interesting spin on it that would make it worthwhile...

 

Out of genre covers are often the best covers.

[connorp]

Blue Jays trying to do analytics is like Miley Cyrus trying to sing Smells Like Teen Spirit

 

Yeah, basically they’re trying to be smart like the Rays without having the personnel for it, so it’s just stupid

[Spanky99]

Tough loss but if they hit the ball hard like this tomorrow they'll start finding some green. Hoping Ryu has a great game and then anything-goes in game 3.

 

Yup, we need a string of hits and runs, we weren't going to win yesterday scoring a single run...

 

GO JAYS GO!!!

[Laika]

There’s plenty of times when a guy like Ray looks good for 3 innings and then blows up. Nobody is saying he should be allowed to. Either pull them after 1 guy gets on. Or let him pitch with no more than 1 on base depending it’s it’s cheap hit or something with 2 outs.

 

I have no problem with Tampa style 3-3-1-1-1 but you need to have the personnel for it. Guys like AJ Cole are lifetime 5 FIP gas cans. You aren’t going to convince me that putting in AJ Cole is the best strategic decision over someone that’s dealing

 

I think you need to either be in or out with strategies like this. It is either advantageous to have have him pitch the inning or it isn't. If you wait for a sign of trouble you're playing with fire and trying to use some middle-road, fence-sitting strategy like a huge loser would. It's dumb to think that one walk or a bloop single is a sign of trouble. Charlie Montoyo is not Nostradamus - he can't predict when Matt Shoemaker will give up a game-losing home run.

[Ex Player]

I dont understand why Charlie is sitting Tellez

 

 

[JFD]

Grichuk before Teo, but why?

 

And where's Rowdy?

[connorp]

I think you need to either be in or out with strategies like this. It is either advantageous to have have him pitch the inning or it isn't. If you wait for a sign of trouble you're playing with fire and trying to use some middle-road, fence-sitting strategy like a huge loser would. It's dumb to think that one walk or a bloop single is a sign of trouble. Charlie Montoyo is not Nostradamus - he can't predict when Matt Shoemaker will give up a game-losing home run.

 

W/E.. imo you’re playing with fire bringing in a 5 FIP gas can. And look what happened, came in, faced a few batters and hung some juicy pitches

[Laika]

W/E.. imo you’re playing with fire bringing in a 5 FIP gas can. And look what happened, came in, faced a few batters and hung some juicy pitches

 

I'm not here to defend AJ Cole or the decision to go to him. It's not a connected matter IMO. They had lots of other options.

[Spanky99]

If stupid statements only came out when drunk Grant would be Spank

 

Hey, f*** you!

[saskjayfan]

Season on the line....no Rowdy....give me a break.

[Laika]

Season on the line....no Rowdy....give me a break.

 

This wasn't noticed by the broadcast or the public but I thought he looked hurt after scoring that run. He might only be healthy enough to pinch hit, again.

[connorp]

I'm not here to defend AJ Cole or the decision to go to him. It's not a connected matter IMO. They had lots of other options.

 

Well, that’s the center of it. If you’re Tampa and you put your SP on a hard limit or pull him early and hand Nick Anderson the ball, you’re smart. If you’re handing it to AJ Cole you aren’t

[Dokken]

Well, that’s the center of it. If you’re Tampa and you put your SP on a hard limit or pull him early and hand Nick Anderson the ball, you’re smart. If you’re handing it to AJ Cole you aren’t

 

Yeah with most of the talk around starting pitching advantage to the Rays, the bullpen is likely the bigger advantage they have. If we had Giles (healthy) and Romano (and Merryweather), it would be pretty even.

[KevinGregg]

The team is all in on this game. We have all our best pitchers available, let’s go boys!

[Spanky99]

LETS GO BLUE JAYS *CLAP, CLAP* *CLAP, CLAP, CLAP*

 

LETS GO BLUE JAYS *CLAP, CLAP* *CLAP, CLAP, CLAP*

 

LETS GO BLUE JAYS *CLAP, CLAP* *CLAP, CLAP, CLAP*

 

 

Hey Rays...