Blue Jays acquire Jonathan Villar for Griffin Conine

[Ryu In My House]

No all star gets, but a lot of solid gets that will incrementally improve everything. And once everyone is healthy, we have a great bench. Buh-bye Drury and Panik.

[max silver]

It's too bad the Jays didn't pick up Villar on waivers last year for free, wouldn't have had to send a prospect out that way.

[Abomination]

Yep. The power is irrelevant, that K rate will absolutely never play at higher levels.

 

Gallo says hi.

[GoJays1562]

Looking at those stats more like Griffin Konine I'll see myself out.

[Orgfiller]

Gallo says hi.

 

Gallo is a freak of nature. You won't find a more extreme outlier than guys like him and Miguel Sano.

[Abomination]

Gallo is a freak of nature. You won't find a more extreme outlier than guys like him and Miguel Sano.

 

Oh yeah. I know. Any time someone makes a definitive statement like that though, it's fair game for an outlier comp.

[Laika]

Gallo is a freak of nature. You won't find a more extreme outlier than guys like him and Miguel Sano.

 

Gallo was also 19 when he was whiffing in A ball. When he was Conine's age he was already striking out in the big leagues.

 

I think Abom's general point is correct though. Conine's Ks aren't an absolute profile ruiner. He could be something. Not Gallo, but something.

[saskjayfan]

Gallo was also 19 when he was whiffing in A ball. When he was Conine's age he was already striking out in the big leagues.

 

I think Abom's general point is correct though. Conine's Ks aren't an absolute profile ruiner. He could be something. Not Gallo, but something.

 

You can't ignore the strike outs, but you can't ignore the walk rate or power either. He only had one full season in the minors. That was last year, his age 21 season. He's definitely a kid who has a shot at making the major leagues. He certainly could develop and cut his K rate.

 

We have a chance to win and we got a player who improves out chances. I wish Conine all the best. He's a couple years away. I'm more worried about what Villar can do for or team now. I think he can help our team now. I don't think Conine is a nothing prospect. You have to give a guy with at least some upside to get something of value in return.

[Dick_Pole]

Holy s*** I guess the Jays should have re-signed Ryan Goins and shipped him off to Miami for Villar to make everyone happy. You have to give up something of some value to get value back in return. If Conine has Espinal level of success in, like 2023, I expect several suicides to take place on this board.

 

Conine is the most replaceable of replacement level players based on what the Blue Jays have done. Get someone off the trash heap of Conine's profile and turn him into the next Bautista, Encarnacion, Smoak or Hernandez on the cheap for a couple of years if you're really missing that bat.

[PhillyBlueJay]

Villar is intriguing...

 

Do you have him bat 9th so when the lineup is turned over you have Mr. on-base machine Biggio leading off and then Bichette hitting second?

 

If Villar gets on base hititng 9th you have stolen base threat in front of Biggio giving him the opportunity with his batting eye to allow Villar to steal or end up with hitters on 1st and second after walk with meat of the order coming up!

[Dokken]

Villar is intriguing...

 

Do you have him bat 9th so when the lineup is turned over you have Mr. on-base machine Biggio leading off and then Bichette hitting second?

 

If Villar gets on base hititng 9th you have stolen base threat in front of Biggio giving him the opportunity with his batting eye to allow Villar to steal or end up with hitters on 1st and second after walk with meat of the order coming up!

 

I agree, it seems an obvious thing to bat Villar 9th, so you get that quasi-leadoff hitter while still having your on base machine at the top of the order getting maximum PAs. Also, Villar is a pretty good hitter in his own right so helps lengthen the batting order. Shaw needs to get it going or if/when Bichette is back he may be riding the pine with Villar at 3rd. Otherwise, Villar on the bench as a backup and pinch runner with good wheels is really great to have. Thank you Marlins very much

[max silver]

When checking out Villar's numbers for the season it makes me wonder if some improved performance can be unlocked with some swing/approach tweaks. His plate discipline numbers are a career worst, and he's hitting a lot fewer flyballs than last year with the Orioles. Unfortunately he's lost over a foot/second in foot speed compared to 2019 so he might not be much of a threat on the bases at this point of his career.

[Stangstag]

Anyone hear the post-game interview with Charlie?? He kept talking about how Villar can play in the outfield and how he can cover CF for Grichuk on rest days... didn’t say a single thing about him playing 3B or SS

 

Im worried lol

[Dokken]

Anyone hear the post-game interview with Charlie?? He kept talking about how Villar can play in the outfield and how he can cover CF for Grichuk on rest days... didn’t say a single thing about him playing 3B or SS

 

Im worried lol

 

I can't see how they don't play him at SS until Bichette is back. He is undeniably better than the alternatives (Panik and Espinal) for his overall abilities. But as a backup (after Bichette is back) he could be a 'utility' guy to fill in at various positions. Although I have never heard of Villar playing the OF.

[Grant77]

Anyone hear the post-game interview with Charlie?? He kept talking about how Villar can play in the outfield and how he can cover CF for Grichuk on rest days... didn’t say a single thing about him playing 3B or SS

 

Im worried lol

 

I don't think Atkins picked him up only for Montoyo to not use him at shortstop.

[Grant77]

https://www.mlb.com/bluejays/video/source-blue-jays-deal-for-villar?t=t141-default-vtp

 

Buck Showalter says that Villar is a baseball player. That's really good news, as I was worried that he was a figure skater.

[Dokken]

https://www.mlb.com/bluejays/video/source-blue-jays-deal-for-villar?t=t141-default-vtp

 

Buck Showalter says that Villar is a baseball player. That's really good news, as I was worried that he was a figure skater.

 

Isn't that the same ridiculous thing that Tabler always says?

[Deadpool]

I agree, it seems an obvious thing to bat Villar 9th, so you get that quasi-leadoff hitter while still having your on base machine at the top of the order getting maximum PAs. Also, Villar is a pretty good hitter in his own right so helps lengthen the batting order. Shaw needs to get it going or if/when Bichette is back he may be riding the pine with Villar at 3rd. Otherwise, Villar on the bench as a backup and pinch runner with good wheels is really great to have. Thank you Marlins very much

 

I'm in the camp of "get your worst hitters fewer at bats". I wouldn't hit him 9th, probably ~7th. What needs to happen is removing Shaw from the 3rd spot, that's just an awful spot for him right now. Villar should be batting before guys like Shaw, Panik, Espinal, and both catchers (depending upon who remains with the team when all the roster moves are complete...) He's got a semi-respectable OBP, just a bit lower than his career average, but he's not a guy who "gets on base" at an impressive clip, so even if you buy the "turn the lineup over" argument, it's not some kind of automatic baserunner for Biggio at the top of the order.

 

I mean, we all know that Chuckles will be batting him leadoff, but we're not talking about what history's greatest monster will do with the lineup, just what should be done.

[Ryu In My House]

Isn't that the same ridiculous thing that Tabler always says?

 

Semantics, but Tabler always says "big and strong" to describe "baseball player". Same idea, though.

[Ryu In My House]

I'm in the camp of "get your worst hitters fewer at bats". I wouldn't hit him 9th, probably ~7th. What needs to happen is removing Shaw from the 3rd spot, that's just an awful spot for him right now. Villar should be batting before guys like Shaw, Panik, Espinal, and both catchers (depending upon who remains with the team when all the roster moves are complete...) He's got a semi-respectable OBP, just a bit lower than his career average, but he's not a guy who "gets on base" at an impressive clip, so even if you buy the "turn the lineup over" argument, it's not some kind of automatic baserunner for Biggio at the top of the order.

 

I mean, we all know that Chuckles will be batting him leadoff, but we're not talking about what history's greatest monster will do with the lineup, just what should be done.

 

I would never bat Villar 9th. 7th seems right.

 

I would honestly be open to batting Shaw last.

 

Panik, Espinal, players like that should get the least amount of bats. Batting 9th or riding the pine accomplishes that.

[EastCoaster]

Villar is super utility guy who can play both the infield or outfield he hasn't played 3rd base since 2016 with Milwaukee where in 42 games he had 12 errors he could be a fill in in an emergency at 3rd but I doubt that wouldn't be the preferred spot anybody wants to play him.

[Deadpool]

Villar is super utility guy who can play both the infield or outfield he hasn't played 3rd base since 2016 with Milwaukee where in 42 games he had 12 errors he could be a fill in in an emergency at 3rd but I doubt that wouldn't be the preferred spot anybody wants to play him.

 

Unless he's got a really bad/inaccurate arm, the skill set @ 3rd isn't markedly different from the one at SS. You may have to react slightly faster once in a rare while on a Vladdyesque grounder down the line, but as we've seen over the past month, there's NO defending a Vladdyesque grounder down the line...

 

42 games 4 years ago is not a meaningful sample in any way. He should be the primary 3B once Bichette is back.

[Grant77]

I think the smart play when Bo returns is Villar at 2B and Biggio at 3B on days where we need Villar on the infield.

[KevinGregg]

I think the smart play when Bo returns is Villar at 2B and Biggio at 3B on days where we need Villar on the infield.

 

I dunno if Biggio's arm plays at 3rd

[Grant77]

I dunno if Biggio's arm plays at 3rd

 

Hard to say, but he played a lot of 3B in the minor leagues.

[EastCoaster]

Unless he's got a really bad/inaccurate arm, the skill set @ 3rd isn't markedly different from the one at SS. You may have to react slightly faster once in a rare while on a Vladdyesque grounder down the line, but as we've seen over the past month, there's NO defending a Vladdyesque grounder down the line...

 

42 games 4 years ago is not a meaningful sample in any way. He should be the primary 3B once Bichette is back.

 

Well out of 7 season he played 399 games at SS 345 games at 2nd 54 games at 3rd base and only complete 38 out 54 games at 3rd that would be an indication that he considered a middle infielder rather than a corner infielder.

[Deadpool]

Well out of 7 season he played 399 games at SS 345 games at 2nd 54 games at 3rd base and only complete 38 out 54 games at 3rd that would be an indication that he considered a middle infielder rather than a corner infielder.

 

Yeah, but our other options at 3rd are considerably worse. It's not that I think he'll be great there, just that he won't be Panik or Shaw.

[EastCoaster]

Yeah, but our other options at 3rd are considerably worse. It's not that I think he'll be great there, just that he won't be Panik or Shaw.

 

I can't envision how anybody can consider Villar at 3rd base an improvement over Shaw. Travis played 457 games at 3rd with a 965 fielding % while Johnathan player 54 games at 3rd with an 877 fielding %. Joe Panick has never played 3rd except for this season.

[Brownie19]

I can't envision how anybody can consider Villar at 3rd base an improvement over Shaw. Travis played 457 games at 3rd with a 965 fielding % while Johnathan player 54 games at 3rd with an 877 fielding %. Joe Panick has never played 3rd except for this season.

 

I don't think anyone is pretending Villar will be better defensively than Shaw (who's quite good). They are looking at the overall package, which has seen Shaw post a -0.1 WAR this year as a 74 wRC+ hitter.

 

It looks like we'll continue to give Shaw a starting gig (which I believe was promised to him when he signed) until Bo comes back. If he hasn't figured it out at the plate by then, than there's probably a good chance Villar will take starts away from him.

[wilko]

I'd say Villar will be SS mostly until Bo's back and sometimes OF. I can't see him at 3b too often with Shaw still around.