Fire Charlie Montoyo - The thread worked guys!

[Spanky99]

Not to speak for everyone, but I'm fairly certain 80% of this board badly wants to see Gibby return. Not to spoil anything but we are going to see if we can get an interview with him. We are still small fish but maybe he's willing to grace us with some of his time so we can ask him straight up if he left because he wanted to or if he was just not being renewed. If it's the latter, that's inexcusable. Like the rest of this team, Gibbons has grown as a manager. He's not stubborn. He improved his in game management year after year and he seemed like probably the best personality in baseball. There was no reason to let this guy go unless he wanted to.

 

That'd be neat if you had him on, he likely wouldn't answer that question though. Well you know where I stand, he still had another year on that contract plus an option for '20.

[saskjayfan]

I understand they parted ways in good faith to one another, I'm just saying I believe Gibbons was sincere when he said it, regardless of them wanting their guy, he didn't want to go through a rebuild. They moved on.

 

He said I'm not sure I want to go through a rebuild after he knew he wasn't going to be coming back in a moment of frustration and he regretted it. It's in the article. It's not conjecture. The author interviewed Gibbons. There were also quotes after that came out where gibbons said he would relish the chance of working with young guys.

 

I'm not saying anyone did anything wrong. At the time, Gibby had been here a long time. His contract was up. You make a change and get a fresh voice. That doesn't mean Gibby didn't want another contract.

 

I'm saying in hindsight, we realize Gibby was a pretty good manager. Certainly relative to what we have now.I

[polar bear]

He doesn't appear to use his pitching staff very effectively, that's for sure. Got too quick a hook in some cases, which leaves him stuck in others. There was no need at all to use 8 pitchers today.

Sounds just like Cito.

[Spanky99]

He said I'm not sure I want to go through a rebuild after he knew he wasn't going to be coming back in a moment of frustration and he regretted it. It's in the article. It's not conjecture. The author interviewed Gibbons. There were also quotes after that came out where gibbons said he would relish the chance of working with young guys.

 

I'm not saying anyone did anything wrong. At the time, Gibby had been here a long time. His contract was up. You make a change and get a fresh voice. That doesn't mean Gibby didn't want another contract.

 

I'm saying in hindsight, we realize Gibby was a pretty good manager. Certainly relative to what we have now.I

 

No, most of that article was conjecture by the author, no, he still had another year and an option, and no, hindsight he was good.

[EZe]

I think TB played 4D chess with us. Looking back why would we put stock in the glowing reference from a crafty division rival.

[Brownie19]

Obviously to make it look like an amicable parting for optics?

 

Are you aware that people sometimes sugarcoat things to limit controversy?

 

Does John Gibbons seem like the type of person who sugarcoats things?

 

f*** I wish I could enhance this post by including the picture of all the managers when Johnny is in the unbuttoned dress shirt, no suit coat and no f***s given.

[saskjayfan]

No, most of that article was conjecture by the author, no, he still had another year and an option, and no, hindsight he was good.

 

You're right, he had a year left. Regardless, Boxy is going to get to the bottom of this in his interview. Did John Gibbons really want to stay. I say yes. We'll find out from the horses mouth soon enough!

[Boxcar]

Does John Gibbons seem like the type of person who sugarcoats things?

 

f*** I wish I could enhance this post by including the picture of all the managers when Johnny is in the unbuttoned dress shirt, no suit coat and no f***s given.

 

That's my banner pic on facebook

[Boxcar]

You're right, he had a year left. Regardless, Boxy is going to get to the bottom of this in his interview. Did John Gibbons really want to stay. I say yes. We'll find out from the horses mouth soon enough!

 

I said we'd try. We have his contact info, but we are unknowns on a platform he isn't familiar with. I'm doubtful he'd agree but we will try.

[saskjayfan]

I said we'd try. We have his contact info, but we are unknowns on a platform he isn't familiar with. I'm doubtful he'd agree but we will try.

 

I know...I was just joking. I wish you luck.

[BlueRocky]

Even if Gibby wants to come back, will Shatkins let him back?

They seem to be the type that wants to hire and succeed with their own guy, just to prove a point. They never seem thrilled about Gibby to begin with.

[dineke]

I remember it being talked about that they wanted a spanish speaking manager? Charlie seems like a pushover though. Gibby would be all over Vlad's fat ass I bet.

[glory]

If they offered Gibbons an extension in the summer of 2018, I'd bet money he would have taken the deal. It's not like he was going to leave and immediately find work elsewhere. He may never have a manager job again. If he stays, even in a rebuild, he adds more wins to his record and possibly becomes the winningest manager in franchise history someday. I highly doubt he chose to leave unless he already saw the writing on the wall.

[EZe]

I remember it being talked about that they wanted a spanish speaking manager? Charlie seems like a pushover though. Gibby would be all over Vlad's fat ass I bet.

 

I remember this being touted as a major asset for development. It has backfired epically with Vlad.

[Olerud363]

I remember this being touted as a major asset for development. It has backfired epically with Vlad.

 

Hard to know how much the manager can influence asset development.

 

I started following baseball in the Cito years, and one thing is for sure, Cito certainly thought he had full power over asset development.

 

Cito also had two stints as a hitting coach so that would give him a different perspective, however in both Cito stints as manager hitting philosophy and mechanics seemed to be a major focus. In pregame interviews he would go on and on about different guys approach's and what they needed to do.

 

I can't remember Gibby or Charlie talking too much about hitting issues. If Cito was manager and this was happening I'm sure we'd here his thoughts on everything they were doing to "fix" Vlad. Not saying they'd fix him, just that we'd here the whole story about Cito and Murph's hitting lessons for Vlad and maybe some Hank Aaron stories too.

[glory]

I remember it being talked about that they wanted a spanish speaking manager? Charlie seems like a pushover though. Gibby would be all over Vlad's fat ass I bet.

 

The irony being that the Jays probably had more Latin players each year in 2013-18 than they do 2019-present (in the Majors). I really hope that wasn't the reason they chose Charlie.

 

As far as developing young players, from 2014-16 (prime contention years for the Jays), they were able to develop Stroman, Sanchez, Travis, Pillar, and Osuna in the midst of a playoff run. Not only developed, but these guys were major contributors to those playoff teams almost instantly. I see no reason why Gibbons couldn't have handled the rebuild if they approached him and told him that they wanted him around for a while, and as mentioned I don't see why Gibbons wouldn't have stayed if they wanted him to (rebuild and all). Letting someone go and then hiring someone 10 times worse is just so bad.

[Olerud363]

Cito and Murph give Vlad hitting lessons

 

We had a kid here once Snider. We thought he was a bit chubby, but Jesus Christ look at you. Anyway Pull 'dat ball, be aggressive. If you don't you'll end up like Snider. I think he works at a meat plant now or something.

[EZe]

I believe leadership has a significant role in development. With that said someone should also be accountable for Charlie’s development.

[G-Snarls]

Even if Gibby wants to come back, will Shatkins let him back?

They seem to be the type that wants to hire and succeed with their own guy, just to prove a point. They never seem thrilled about Gibby to begin with.

 

As unlikely as a third run for Cito

[G-Snarls]

I remember it being talked about that they wanted a spanish speaking manager? Charlie seems like a pushover though. Gibby would be all over Vlad's fat ass I bet.

 

Does anyone think Eduardo Pérez will be given a chance to manage somewhere? He keeps ending up 2nd or 3rd in the running for managerial jobs. He might have just the right temperament and language skills if maybe not rhe analytical knowledge.

[saskjayfan]

Even if Gibby wants to come back, will Shatkins let him back?

They seem to be the type that wants to hire and succeed with their own guy, just to prove a point. They never seem thrilled about Gibby to begin with.

 

It's highly unlikely. Usually when managers part way there both sides aren't seeing eye to eye and there are some hard feelings. I'm sure there were differences of opinions. However, Jon couldn't really have left on better terms all things considered. He's really one of the most likable guys in the game.

 

Gibby was the best of old school and new school. He rarely bunted...used non traditional lead off guys. He'd get into an altercation with Josh Donaldson. No one was immune to being called out and yet 2 days later they'd be best of buddies. Guys loved playing for Gibby.

 

If the Jays ever got rid of Montoya, Shapiro is smart enough to give Gibby a sobering thought. He did a lot of things right. Under the right circumstances, if there were no better options, there is a shot he could come back. It's highly unlikely, but you never know.

[Slade]

John Gibbons not coming back, kind of funny the roller coaster that was Gibbons tenure here cause he was hated in his first stint. If they can't reign in Montoyo they'll find someone new or give the job to John Schneider.

 

I'm not going to pretend to know what a Big league manager handles off the field but from the interviews last season they seem to like whatever that is about him.

[KevinGregg]

If they offered Gibbons an extension in the summer of 2018, I'd bet money he would have taken the deal. It's not like he was going to leave and immediately find work elsewhere. He may never have a manager job again. If he stays, even in a rebuild, he adds more wins to his record and possibly becomes the winningest manager in franchise history someday. I highly doubt he chose to leave unless he already saw the writing on the wall.

 

Once again, he was already extended

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/3350475/blue-jays-sign-manager-john-gibbons-to-contract-extension-through-2019/

 

That same deal that they ripped up when he left could have taken him all the way through this season if the Jays picked up the final year club option

[glory]

John Gibbons not coming back, kind of funny the roller coaster that was Gibbons tenure here cause he was hated in his first stint. If they can't reign in Montoyo they'll find someone new or give the job to John Schneider.

 

I'm not going to pretend to know what a Big league manager handles off the field but from the interviews last season they seem to like whatever that is about him.

 

Gibby doesn't need to come back, just hire someone better than Montoyo. That shouldn't be too difficult. Hopefully.

[Krylian]

Gibby doesn't need to come back, just hire someone better than Montoyo. That shouldn't be too difficult. Hopefully.

 

It was difficult the first time. Are you that confident they've learned the error of their ways?

[glory]

Once again, he was already extended

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/3350475/blue-jays-sign-manager-john-gibbons-to-contract-extension-through-2019/

 

That same deal that they ripped up when he left could have taken him all the way through this season if the Jays picked up the final year club option

 

Exactly. If he entered 2019 as manager without an extension, then he would have basically been a lameduck because the team had the option, not him. That makes it more likely that the team moved on, not him. My point was if Shatkins gave him indication that they wanted him to stick around long term, he wouldn't have cared if the team was rebuilding for a couple of years. He would have taken it. He's not voluntarily leaving a well paid manager job in his late 50's when he knows he's likely not getting another one. His best shot is AA hiring him in that role, and maybe that's what he's banking on.

[Jonn]

It was difficult the first time. Are you that confident they've learned the error of their ways?

 

The job is probably significantly more appealing now. But who knows.

[glory]

It was difficult the first time. Are you that confident they've learned the error of their ways?

 

A chance to manage Vlad, Bo, Biggio, Pearson, etc, for 5+ years is likely appealing versus what the job looked like in 2018-19. Maybe a Baldelli type accepts the job this time. But no, hard to be confident when Montoyo is the recent sample size of their managerial hirings.

[Dick_Pole]

Atkins only hires managers who he can beat in an arm wrestling contest, which as you can imagine is a pretty small pool.

 

You can forget about Gibbons. Atkins to Gibbons is like Ash to Gaston. Except Atkins has enough intelligence to know he would never win that battle and enough influence to ensure it never takes place.

[sdyment]

Bump for leaving players off the lineup card... smh