Fire Charlie Montoyo - The thread worked guys!

[glory]

In Vlad, Bo, Biggio, Gurriel, Grichuk, Hernandez, Kirk, Ryu this team has a lot of name recognition and personality.

 

I mean Kirk showed up and he's already very recognizable... unique guy obviously. Point is ... this team lacks personality??

 

Also will Pearson have more personality if he becomes the next Aaron Sanchez?? Or if he becomes a 4-5 inning piggy back guy who has mind blowing numbers in 145 innings and does it for 4 years??

 

Will Shoemaker have more personality being a 10-12 guy or being a 9-4 guy if he can perform better being used less??

 

I'm not saying the current team doesn't have personality, I'm saying I don't want to root for a team like that. The best thing about the 2015 team was that we had a bunch of arrogant MF'ers who would cuss the other team out, bat flip, etc, etc. The fact that they were good made it even better, but it was fun as a fan to root for. I don't want the Jays to become a robotic team like the Rays, don't even care if they're good. But that's just me. The Rays have a lot of stans on this board so I'm probably in the minority.

Edited September 30, 2020 by glory

[KevinGregg]

The best thing about the 2015 team was that we had a bunch of arrogant MF'ers who would cuss the other team out, bat flip, etc, etc. The fact that they were good made it even better

 

I'm gonna say the best thing about the 2015 team was that they were the best team in the league. The attitude was a distant secondary factor of enjoyment for me.

 

Would anyone have cared if the 2013 jays had attitude? Maybe they did, i don't remember because that team sucked so bad

[Olerud363]

I'm not saying the current team doesn't have personality, I'm saying I don't want to root for a team like that. The best thing about the 2015 team was that we had a bunch of arrogant MF'ers who would cuss the other team out, bat flip, etc, etc. The fact that they were good made it even better, but it was fun as a fan to root for. I don't want the Jays to become a robotic team like the Rays, don't even care if they're good. But that's just me. The Rays have a lot of stans on this board so I'm probably in the minority.

 

Just saying that using advanced stats doesn't mean you are robotic.

 

Let's say next year Shoemaker is a 3-4 inning pitcher no matter what (not sure how they fill all the innings but let's say that's the case).

 

Hypothetically let's say it works. He comes in, with the stare, with the beard, blows away guys for 3 innings, followed by Pearson or Ray, who are nasty in 3 innings. And say there are fans.

 

Will the fans - cheer and clap and enjoy these guys blowing away people in 3 innings?? If they see Ray coming in for the fourth and know he's going to kick ass will there be electricity.

 

Or will the fans say - "This is robotic"

 

I've been saying this for a while... what matters is whether it works or not. If it works it will be fun. If the Jays are winning they'lll get 3 million, and they'll be used to guys like Ray coming in middle innings... if it works they'll love it.

[Laika]

The best thing about the 2015 team was that we had a bunch of arrogant MF'ers who would cuss the other team out, bat flip, etc, etc.

 

No, lmfao. The best thing was that they were very good. That arrogant stuff gets old pretty fast when the team is bad or mediocre.

[Olerud363]

No, lmfao. The best thing was that they were very good. That arrogant stuff gets old pretty fast when the team is bad or mediocre.

 

 

Blue Jays 2022 - 103-59 franchise records for wins

 

Bo Bichette quote - "The guys are really down as are the fans, I mean what is this ********... I love Pearson, and he might win the Cy Young with a 150 innings... but really man?? 150 innings?? I don't care if he struck out 250 in 150 innings... the ******** the front office is pulling is ridiculous... 103 wins but it means nothing to us... Sure Pearson is healthy and lights out but he's not a real man, this isn't real baseball... and don't get me started about the Rowdy/J.D. Davis platoon... combined they were the best DH in the league, but it ruined our swagger... hard to be confident when your brothers are sitting half the time. The fans are demoralized, we are demoralized and we need to stop the ********."

[Boxcar]

Blue Jays 2022 - 103-59 franchise records for wins

 

Bo Bichette quote - "The guys are really down as are the fans, I mean what is this ********... I love Pearson, and he might win the Cy Young with a 150 innings... but really man?? 150 innings?? I don't care if he struck out 250 in 150 innings... the ******** the front office is pulling is ridiculous... 103 wins but it means nothing to us... Sure Pearson is healthy and lights out but he's not a real man, this isn't real baseball... and don't get me started about the Rowdy/J.D. Davis platoon... combined they were the best DH in the league, but it ruined our swagger... hard to be confident when your brothers are sitting half the time. The fans are demoralized, we are demoralized and we need to stop the ********."

 

This is what happens when you tell Olerud he made a good post.

[BTS]

Just saying that using advanced stats doesn't mean you are robotic.

 

Let's say next year Shoemaker is a 3-4 inning pitcher no matter what (not sure how they fill all the innings but let's say that's the case).

 

Hypothetically let's say it works. He comes in, with the stare, with the beard, blows away guys for 3 innings, followed by Pearson or Ray, who are nasty in 3 innings. And say there are fans.

 

Will the fans - cheer and clap and enjoy these guys blowing away people in 3 innings?? If they see Ray coming in for the fourth and know he's going to kick ass will there be electricity.

 

Or will the fans say - "This is robotic"

 

I've been saying this for a while... what matters is whether it works or not. If it works it will be fun. If the Jays are winning they'lll get 3 million, and they'll be used to guys like Ray coming in middle innings... if it works they'll love it.

 

Yeah. This year they have one good starter, and they treated him with kid gloves. He's also an $80M investment with a glass arm that they managed to keep healthy all season and into the playoffs. I'm guessing the plan going forward isn't to have to stitch innings together from a collection of back-end shitbags, but rather to actually have a rotation of actual good pitchers.

 

Even the Rays don't want to be doing what they're doing. They just can't afford a rotation of starters capable of throwing 180 good innings. They had Morton last year and let him throw a career-high 194 innings. Snell has previously thrown 180 and will get there again if his arm holds up.

[dineke]

I'm not saying the current team doesn't have personality, I'm saying I don't want to root for a team like that. The best thing about the 2015 team was that we had a bunch of arrogant MF'ers who would cuss the other team out, bat flip, etc, etc. The fact that they were good made it even better, but it was fun as a fan to root for. I don't want the Jays to become a robotic team like the Rays, don't even care if they're good. But that's just me. The Rays have a lot of stans on this board so I'm probably in the minority.

 

I don't give a f*** if we're competitive every year, the 2015 team was a flash in the pan. We have the budget to lean more in the Dodgers' direction anyways.

[The Iceman]

What did the series against The Rays teach me?

 

We need a better manager, not a script reader. Ryu was done with the bases loaded. A high leverage arm should have been brought into the game. Jays plan on the order of their RP arms was very flawed.

Grishit in no world should be hitting ahead of Teoscar IMO

Bichette is OK as a SS, move him to 2nd base and he could win a gold glove. Sign a SS in the off season

I don't like Villar...thought I would.

Team missed Rowdy's bat

Shaw can move along

Hoping Romano comes back to be our closer

[Krylian]

Blue Jays 2022 - 103-59 franchise records for wins

 

Bo Bichette quote - "The guys are really down as are the fans, I mean what is this ********... I love Pearson, and he might win the Cy Young with a 150 innings... but really man?? 150 innings?? I don't care if he struck out 250 in 150 innings... the ******** the front office is pulling is ridiculous... 103 wins but it means nothing to us... Sure Pearson is healthy and lights out but he's not a real man, this isn't real baseball... and don't get me started about the Rowdy/J.D. Davis platoon... combined they were the best DH in the league, but it ruined our swagger... hard to be confident when your brothers are sitting half the time. The fans are demoralized, we are demoralized and we need to stop the ********."

 

Feels like a BBBB post....but in english.

[TheHurl]

I would love to know what people think the role of the manager is.

[Abomination]

I would love to know what people think the role of the manager is.

 

Scapegoat.

[JuniorFelix54]

Embarrassing post.

 

How bout your boy Snell last night playing HR Derby like usual? Everyone but the Jays lights this clown up

[Spanky99]

How bout your boy Snell last night playing HR Derby like usual? Everyone but the Jays lights this clown up

 

Logout bud, please.

[Olerud363]

This is what happens when you tell Olerud he made a good post.

 

All I was pointing out is that all this ******** about "the right way" is just ********. If it worked everybody would be on board.

 

If guys are lights out in 150 innings and the team is winning no one is going to be demoralized.

 

Buck Martinez acts as if taking a pitcher out after 4 innings demoralizes the team. It's so stupid. Specifically the first playoff game. The piggy back thing basically worked, 7 innings 1 run I think.

 

However Buck (and others) act like if Shoemaker stayed in, and say gave up 2 runs (instead of the 1 Ray did), that the Jays would have had a better chance of winning because they wouldn't of been "demoralized".

[Olerud363]

I would love to know what people think the role of the manager is.

 

1. Work with upper management to figure out playing time. Optimize for performance and health.

 

2. Work with upper management to decide optimal defensive, offensive, and pitching roles.

 

3. Work with upper management to hire and guide coaching staff, most important thing is to be on the bleeding edge of performance strategies including pitching and hitting mechanics, pitch sequencing, and advanced health and performance indicators.

 

4. Work with advanced analytics team to optimize in game strategy within reasonable constraints, ie 20 sacrifice bunts a year won't make a difference 100 would. Slight inefficiencies in lineup construction won't make a difference, getting it completely wrong every day would.

[glory]

I would love to know what people think the role of the manager is.

 

After watching Aaron Boontoyo manage against the Rays in the ALDS, it's clear the role of a manager is to just do whatever the front office/analytic team wants, and be the shield when the criticism comes. If the f'n Yankees are doing stupid pre determined analytical crap, then it's a league wide epidemic. The Rays are just way better at it than everyone else. You could replace Buntoyo with someone else and it probably wouldn't make any difference in how the team is managed on the field. It will just be another face taking orders from Atkins and co.

[TheHurl]

Not one person mentioned the relationship with the players which is probably the biggest role.

[Spanky99]

Not one person mentioned the relationship with the players which is probably the biggest role.

 

It's common sense, or universally known I thought. lol

 

That's what I loved the most about Gibby, sticks up for his guys.

[AdamGreenwood]

It's common sense, or universally known I thought. lol

 

That's what I loved the most about Gibby, sticks up for his guys.

 

Or gets into fist fights with them, depending on his mood.

[Spanky99]

Or gets into fist fights with them, depending on his mood.

 

lol... I gather you don't like him.

[Pendleton]

[Spanky99]

lol... I forgot to do this yesterday!

[Laika]

lol baseball

[Orgfiller]

Charlie Montoyo isn't even the worst AL manager of the year finalist. The other guy doesn't even have a job!

[The Iceman]

Pickings were rather thin.

 

East

 

1- Rays (40-20)- Cash nominated*

2- Yankees (33-27)– Didn’t reach expectations

3- Blue Jays (32-28)- Montoyo nominated*

4- Orioles (25-35)– It was good for a while?

5- Red Sox (24-36)– Ouch

 

Central

 

1- Twins (36-24)– Met expectations

2- White Sox (35-25)- Renteria nominated*

3- Cleveland (35-25)- Met expectations

4- Royals (26-34)– Rough season

5- Tigers (25-35)– Rougher season

 

West

 

1- A’s (36-24)– Met expectations

2- Astros (29-31)– Disappointed, lucky to make the playoffs

3- Mariners (27-33)– I mean, not terrible based on expectations

4- Angels (26-34)– Major disappointment

5- Rangers (22-38)– What the heck happened?

 

With a closer look, I’m really only seeing three other teams with skippers that could have received consideration, and that would be in Oakland, Minnesota, and Cleveland. However, in all three of those cases the teams were expected to contend, and that generally works against a manager for an award like this.

[Laika]

With a closer look, I’m really only seeing three other teams with skippers that could have received consideration, and that would be in Oakland, Minnesota, and Cleveland. However, in all three of those cases the teams were expected to contend, and that generally works against a manager for an award like this.

 

This is really the problem with the award. If Mike Trout is the best player in the AL every year, he should win the MVP every year. I don't see why the manager of the year needs to be from some upstart team - it should be perfectly valid to just award the managers of strong teams that were expected to be good, if the manager did a good job.

 

Of course the main problem is that it's very hard (impossible) to tease out the actual influence any given manager is having.

 

Montoyo was under fire all year long and made a number of stupid decisions though so this nomination seems completely blind to that information.

[connorp]

This is really the problem with the award. If Mike Trout is the best player in the AL every year, he should win the MVP every year. I don't see why the manager of the year needs to be from some upstart team - it should be perfectly valid to just award the managers of strong teams that were expected to be good, if the manager did a good job.

 

Of course the main problem is that it's very hard (impossible) to tease out the actual influence any given manager is having.

 

Montoyo was under fire all year long and made a number of stupid decisions though so this nomination seems completely blind to that information.

 

Not one on your better opinions. There’s nothing wrong with the premise of MOY being based on perceived positive effect on win totals. Many normal working folk understand their bonus will prob be better if they beat their forecast rather than just make it. You may as well go one step further and just give everyone a trophy for trying their best

[TheHurl]

Not one on your better opinions. There’s nothing wrong with the premise of MOY being based on perceived positive effect on win totals. Many normal working folk understand their bonus will prob be better if they beat their forecast rather than just make it. You may as well go one step further and just give everyone a trophy for trying their best

 

Technically not giving the bonus to the person who brings in $40M every year and did so as projected, instead giving it to the guy who made $30M but was expected to make $28M is closer to the "give everyone a trophy".

 

In the end I'm going to guess that 2 voters voted for Charlie to get him his 3rd place finish...which for some f***ing inexpiable reason they call it a finalist!

[Laika]

Not one on your better opinions. There’s nothing wrong with the premise of MOY being based on perceived positive effect on win totals. Many normal working folk understand their bonus will prob be better if they beat their forecast rather than just make it. You may as well go one step further and just give everyone a trophy for trying their best

 

Not even sure how to respond to this horrible post. Good try?