Pearson's service time

[mellowgold]

Sorry if this has been discussed at length but if (when) Pearson spends the full 60 games with the Jays, how does that affect his service time? It's after late April or whatever the cutoff day is...but it's a full season...

 

Thanks

[Slade]

[Grant77]

We'd be awfully foolish not to hold him down for one week. It's a single start and we won't face any consequences after Kris Bryant lost his case.

[BTS]

Yeah. If this is accurate, there's really no justifying having him up in the first 7 days. Or leaving him down longer than that, for that matter.

[Jimcanuck]

Yeah. If this is accurate, there's really no justifying having him up in the first 7 days. Or leaving him down longer than that, for that matter.

 

He won't care about the obvious manipulation. Seems to be a kid that just wants his MLB career to get going.

[Carlos Danger]

He won't care about the obvious manipulation. Seems to be a kid that just wants his MLB career to get going.

 

The way the MLBPA works is it does matter what an individual player wants or likes, cares about. If a player said I am just happy to be here, I love Toronto and want to play for $500K USD a yr. He would not be allowed to or the union would have his head. The point of challenging/protesting "games" to get additional control is based on the big picture for the union, not what a player is happy with or cares about.

[Jimcanuck]

The way the MLBPA works is it does matter what an individual player wants or likes, cares about. If a player said I am just happy to be here, I love Toronto and want to play for $500K USD a yr. He would not be allowed to or the union would have his head. The point of challenging/protesting "games" to get additional control is based on the big picture for the union, not what a player is happy with or cares about.

 

That's not how it works, bro.

[Carlos Danger]

That's not how it works, bro.

 

Really?? Are we talking about the same MLBPA???

[BlueRocky]

Generally there’s 162 games and 187 of days in a season, inclusive of the days off in between games. If a player spends 172 days on the roster or injured list they earn 1 year of service time, this 172 days can accumulate between two years for example.

 

So technically if they only spend 171 / 187 days on the roster, they haven’t earned their first year of service. Which basically turns 6 years of control into 7 years of control.

 

But this year is a bit different as there’s only 60 games. If the rules are the same, they’re estimating a team can earn that extra year of control if the prospect is held down for 7-ish days in the season.

 

Super-2 works a little bit differently, but that has to do with when a player enters arbitration (they get paid sooner, but same amount of control).

 

Keep in mind there will be a new CBA soon and this could all change.

 

TLDR; Pearson will miss one start and we in theory control him an extra year.

[Carlos Danger]

That's not how it works, bro.

 

Let me give you a perfect example. Pearson just wants to play, he doesn't care about Super 2 etc, etc. He goes to the Jay's FO and says.. Listen guys, I just really want to pitch in the majors, and there are only 60 games this season, I don't even want to miss one start. I would like to make deal. If you let me play from day 1, I will let you waive my service time clock. I will sign a waiver, whatever, just let me play and you can start my clock on week 2.

 

How do you think the above scenario would go over with the MLBPA???

[Jimcanuck]

Let me give you a perfect example. Pearson just wants to play, he doesn't care about Super 2 etc, etc. He goes to the Jay's FO and says.. Listen guys, I just really want to pitch in the majors, and there are only 60 games this season, I don't even want to miss one start. I would like to make deal. If you let me play from day 1, I will let you waive my service time clock. I will sign a waiver, whatever, just let me play and you can start my clock on week 2.

 

How do you think the above scenario would go over with the MLBPA???

 

Why are you making up a stupid hypothetical that will never happen?

[Carlos Danger]

Why are you making up a stupid hypothetical that will never happen?

 

That is what I have to resort to to try and explain something to you or make a point. You made a stupid assessment about a guy you know 500 times less then anyone on this board, with no based in reality considerations as to what the MLBPA, his agent, or his parents might even think about it.

[Jimcanuck]

That is what I have to resort to to try and explain something to you or make a point. You made a stupid assessment about a guy you know 500 times less then anyone on this board, with no based in reality considerations as to what the MLBPA, his agent, or his parents might even think about it.

 

Just exercising my free speech rights. If you have a different opinion, you are entitled to it.

[Carlos Danger]

I think people sometimes forget, which should be very obvious, after this latest fiasco, baseball is a Business that provides sports entertainment. It is not anymore, a sport that is run like a business.

[Krylian]

I think people sometimes forget, which should be very obvious, after this latest fiasco, baseball is a Business that provides sports entertainment. It is not anymore, a sport that is run like a business.

 

I would be more entertained with 1 additional year of Pearson rather than 1 additional week.

[saskjayfan]

Two things have peeked my interest. Pearson's service time was number one. We now know he could pitch in game 8 and we'd get the extra year. It's obvious we need to wait the week out.

 

The second is Austin Martin and how quick he could get to the Jays. We really need to get him signed and on the taxi squad. Even inter squad games are extremely valuable for Austin. Big league coaches and the competition would be very high. It would be great for his development. I'm super aggressive, but if he got time in this year on the taxi squad, I could see a world in which he would be playing in Toronto come July next year if he tears it up in the minors next year.

[Boxcar]

Two things have peeked my interest. Pearson's service time was number one. We now know he could pitch in game 8 and we'd get the extra year. It's obvious we need to wait the week out.

 

The second is Austin Martin and how quick he could get to the Jays. We really need to get him signed and on the taxi squad. Even inter squad games are extremely valuable for Austin. Big league coaches and the competition would be very high. It would be great for his development. I'm super aggressive, but if he got time in this year on the taxi squad, I could see a world in which he would be playing in Toronto come July next year if he tears it up in the minors next year.

 

*Piqued

[Deadpool]

Two things have peeked my interest. Pearson's service time was number one. We now know he could pitch in game 8 and we'd get the extra year. It's obvious we need to wait the week out.

 

The second is Austin Martin and how quick he could get to the Jays. We really need to get him signed and on the taxi squad. Even inter squad games are extremely valuable for Austin. Big league coaches and the competition would be very high. It would be great for his development. I'm super aggressive, but if he got time in this year on the taxi squad, I could see a world in which he would be playing in Toronto come July next year if he tears it up in the minors next year.

 

Signing deadline for draftees is August 1st (IIRC), so even if he waits to the last day to sign, he's still available for the taxi squad for most of the season

[Key22]

Let me give you a perfect example. Pearson just wants to play, he doesn't care about Super 2 etc, etc. He goes to the Jay's FO and says.. Listen guys, I just really want to pitch in the majors, and there are only 60 games this season, I don't even want to miss one start. I would like to make deal. If you let me play from day 1, I will let you waive my service time clock. I will sign a waiver, whatever, just let me play and you can start my clock on week 2.

 

How do you think the above scenario would go over with the MLBPA???

 

I get what you mean

 

As a teacher in BC I am forced to be in the union whether I like it or not. And so are MLB players though from a player's perspective it's generally a good union when you look at salaries from 1985 through to 2020. Sure beats the teacher's union. It's interesting that union busting has become a popular stance but doesn't seem to apply to millionaire unions.

 

If the top salary was capped at $1million a year. And all other sports were capped the same - and universities gave no free education to athletes - I wonder how many IF ANY of these players would still not play baseball? It's not like most of them are smart enough to become elite engineers or doctors so would they throw a ball for $1million or work at 7/11 for minimum wage? Something tells me they'd all be jumping for joy at throwing a ball for a yearly lotto win.

[wilko]

I would be more entertained with 1 additional year of Pearson rather than 1 additional week.

 

Screw that dude... That one week might be the deciding factor for the Jays to get into the playoffs and win the World Series!!!!

[KevinGregg]

Gaming service time with pitchers is stupid. Use him while he has the bullets left in his arm. Who cares if we get an extra year if he spends that year on the DL with tommy john

[Spanky99]

Gaming service time with pitchers is stupid. Use him while he has the bullets left in his arm. Who cares if we get an extra year if he spends that year on the DL with tommy john

 

Holding him back for a week doesn't hurt anyone, especially for an extra year of control.

[Brownie19]

Screw that dude... That one week might be the deciding factor for the Jays to get into the playoffs and win the World Series!!!!

 

What's the probability that 1 start from Pearson is the sole difference between making or missing the playoffs this year. 0.341%?

[glory]

Holding Pearson back for 2 months is a debatable point. Holding him back for one start is not. It’s one start in a 60 game season. Losing a year of service for that would be damn near negligent.

 

With that said, I hope the Jays are done gaming the system in a typical season. They waited to get an extra year of Vlad, now one of those years will be 60 games (if it happens) and another might be locked out (2022). Bring talent up when they are ready. Whatever happens after that, you deal with it.

[max silver]

What's the probability that 1 start from Pearson is the sole difference between making or missing the playoffs this year. 0.341%?

 

I would guess the 0.341% describes the Jays total playoff chance this year given the difficulty of their schedule.

[RobinThicc]

Next CBA will probably change the way service time works, so whats the point?

 

All you'll be doing is hurting your relationship with the player.

[Spanky99]

I would guess the 0.341% describes the Jays total playoff chance this year given the difficulty of their schedule.

 

This reminded me to check fangraphs updated season projections, 27 Wins and a 7.8% chance at the postseason, easy peasy...

 

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/standings/playoff-odds

[BlueRocky]

This reminded me to check fangraphs updated season projections, 27 Wins and a 7.8% chance at the postseason, easy peasy...

 

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/standings/playoff-odds

 

I saw this the other day:

 

The Blue Jays are the 4th team most benefited from schedule change 162 to 60 with 14.5% increased chance of playoffs.

 

The Yankees are last with -31.2% chance of playoffs.

[Spanky99]

I saw this the other day:

 

 

The Blue Jays are the 4th team most benefited from schedule change 162 to 60 with 14.5% increased chance of playoffs.

 

The Yankees are last with -31.2% chance of playoffs.

 

Neat, can you give me that direct link? Nvm, I found it, thanks.

Edited June 29, 2020 by Spanky99

[Bobthe4th]

Holding Pearson back for 2 months is a debatable point. Holding him back for one start is not. It’s one start in a 60 game season. Losing a year of service for that would be damn near negligent.

 

With that said, I hope the Jays are done gaming the system in a typical season. They waited to get an extra year of Vlad, now one of those years will be 60 games (if it happens) and another might be locked out (2022). Bring talent up when they are ready. Whatever happens after that, you deal with it.

 

Hopefully the system will be changed in the next CBA anyway.