General 2020 Blue Jays Discussion Thread

[Jimcanuck]

Park adjustments are nowhere close to being perfect

[saskjayfan]

Park adjustments are nowhere close to being perfect

 

I'm not suggesting they are. I'm just pointing out the unique difficulties the Colorado players face. People look at a guys home road splits and if he's a .750 OPS hitter on the road, that's the type of hitter he is. More often than not if that player played anywhere else than Colorado his road OPS would likely by higher.

[Jimcanuck]

I'm not suggesting they are. I'm just pointing out the unique difficulties the Colorado players face. People look at a guys home road splits and if he's a .750 OPS hitter on the road, that's the type of hitter he is. More often than not if that player played anywhere else than Colorado his road OPS would like by higher.

 

Maybe, but on the other hand some hitters just do better in certain parks, same as pitchers. Launch angle, how the ball carries, hit distribution, park dimensions, etc.

 

It's probably a combination of the two. Arenado has the same pronounced home/away split.

[Jimcanuck]

Elvis Luciano DWL note from prospectslive:

 

Another bright spot was young RHP Elvis Luciano, who shut down the Tigres, with 4.0 scoreless innings, 3 walks, and 5 strikeouts. He is an intriguing young prospect for the Toronto Blue Jays, and it will be interesting to see if he can carry over his success in the Dominican Winter League to Spring Training.

[Ray]

Elvis Luciano DWL note from prospectslive:

 

Another bright spot was young RHP Elvis Luciano, who shut down the Tigres, with 4.0 scoreless innings, 3 walks, and 5 strikeouts. He is an intriguing young prospect for the Toronto Blue Jays, and it will be interesting to see if he can carry over his success in the Dominican Winter League to Spring Training.

 

 

[Krylian]

 

Digging the changeups to the righties.

[The Iceman]

Thanks for posting this. I thought he had left the building

 

He is still just 20 years old. A baby.

5 years younger than Murphy and Kay. A couple of what I still consider young pitching prospects.

 

Lets hope he can stay healthy and develop.

[max silver]

Sportsnet's Arden Zwelling has a very interesting piece up outlining the ways in which the Jays have been utilizing their new Dunedin complex to allow the minor league players to continue their development despite the pandemic.

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/blue-jays-development-complex-prospects-making-lost-2020/

[Key22]

Where does the idea that Biggio could play CF come from? He's not a good outfielder by either the numbers or the eye test. He CAN play OF in a pinch, but he's a negative defender at every position but 2B.

 

Edit: Not specifically singling you out, this isn't the first time I've heard this suggestion.

 

Sorry I live in Hong Kong so I largely just see those "game in 10 minutes" clips on MLB.com. The Biggio in CF thing is largely me parroting what I read. I have no idea where Biggio could play - when I see him at second base I miss Roberto Alomar.

 

My post was mainly about Brantly and not seeing the fit.

 

If we signed Springer for example and we really are targeting Lindor and would give him one of those 8yr/$250m type contracts and sending prospects back then it would seem to me that Biggio would be the player to the front that trade. Cost controlled positive war etc that Cleveland would want.

 

If as some here note - Biggio can play only in a short pinch then he has no real defensive versatility. What do people see in his bat? He can take a walk which is nice but does he actually hit. LGJ seems like he can hit - now if we can ever teach him to take a walk. I am more sold on LGJ than I am on Biggio - but as I note - I only see the highlights and condensed games so I may be getting deceived.

 

So based only on my eye test of the condensed game I would prefer having Biggio heading a package for Lindor than LGJ.

[Laika]

Where does the idea that Biggio could play CF come from? He's not a good outfielder by either the numbers or the eye test. He CAN play OF in a pinch, but he's a negative defender at every position but 2B.

 

Edit: Not specifically singling you out, this isn't the first time I've heard this suggestion.

 

He hasn't played off of 2B long enough for any of those numbers to matter. He's crazy smart on the field. There's really no doubt in my mind that he could play various positions adequately.... remains to be seen whether he has the pure speed for CF or the arm for 3B, though, if we are talking about him being average or better at either of those

[max silver]

Sorry I live in Hong Kong so I largely just see those "game in 10 minutes" clips on MLB.com. The Biggio in CF thing is largely me parroting what I read. I have no idea where Biggio could play - when I see him at second base I miss Roberto Alomar.

 

My post was mainly about Brantly and not seeing the fit.

 

If we signed Springer for example and we really are targeting Lindor and would give him one of those 8yr/$250m type contracts and sending prospects back then it would seem to me that Biggio would be the player to the front that trade. Cost controlled positive war etc that Cleveland would want.

 

If as some here note - Biggio can play only in a short pinch then he has no real defensive versatility. What do people see in his bat? He can take a walk which is nice but does he actually hit. LGJ seems like he can hit - now if we can ever teach him to take a walk. I am more sold on LGJ than I am on Biggio - but as I note - I only see the highlights and condensed games so I may be getting deceived.

 

So based only on my eye test of the condensed game I would prefer having Biggio heading a package for Lindor than LGJ.

 

Interestingly enough Biggio and Gurriel are within 2 points of each other in career WRC+. They obviously go about producing it in different ways though. Gurriel will most likely produce better power numbers during his career, but he's super streaky. Biggio's elite plate discipline shouldn't be discounted however, it should allow him to avoid deep slumps as he will be able to work the pitchers for walks even when his timing is off.

[Jimcanuck]

FWIW, fangraphs has Biggio speed at 45, and Ha-Seong Kim at 60.

 

If Jays are in on Kim, he's a bonafide CF solution IMO.

[Olerud363]

He hasn't played off of 2B long enough for any of those numbers to matter. He's crazy smart on the field. There's really no doubt in my mind that he could play various positions adequately.... remains to be seen whether he has the pure speed for CF or the arm for 3B, though, if we are talking about him being average or better at either of those

 

He is a unique guy, 20-0 stealing bases, a historically great eye at the plate. Those skills could translate to being able to get a good jump in CF, and anticipate where he needs to get to.

[Olerud363]

I have no idea where Biggio could play - when I see him at second base I miss Roberto Alomar.

 

Biggio through a full season so far (159 games) is about where Alomar was in his first full season as a Jay in 1991. Alomar had 4.3 WAR, Biggio 3.9.

 

How are they so close?

 

Biggio walked more - 110 to 50 or so

Both were great baserunners - Biggio 20-0, Alomar 50-10 or so, that's about the same

Biggio has more power

Biggio is slightly negative defensively, but so was Alomar. Even the baby stats of the 90s showed that. It was a mystery.

 

Alomar took a step forward in 1992/93. More walks, added power in 93.

 

Still, Biggio is at about the same point as Alomar 1991. Biggio is 25, so no guarantee he'll take a step forward, but if he does he'll be really good.

[Brownie19]

Biggio through a full season so far (159 games) is about where Alomar was in his first full season as a Jay in 1991. Alomar had 4.3 WAR, Biggio 3.9.

 

How are they so close?

 

Biggio walked more - 110 to 50 or so

Both were great baserunners - Biggio 20-0, Alomar 50-10 or so, that's about the same

Biggio has more power

Biggio is slightly negative defensively, but so was Alomar. Even the baby stats of the 90s showed that. It was a mystery.

 

Alomar took a step forward in 1992/93. More walks, added power in 93.

 

Still, Biggio is at about the same point as Alomar 1991. Biggio is 25, so no guarantee he'll take a step forward, but if he does he'll be really good.

 

He already is really good. If he takes a step forward (5+ WAR), he's a superstar.

[King]

Paging Keith Law on both Cavan Biggio and Rowdy Tellez.

[Orgfiller]

FWIW, fangraphs has Biggio speed at 45, and Ha-Seong Kim at 60.

 

If Jays are in on Kim, he's a bonafide CF solution IMO.

 

Why would we sign Kim to be a CF when he's never played an inning outside the infield professionally? Why would he sign us when other teams are offering him starting SS or 3B roles and we're the ones that want him to learn a new position as he also gets adjusted to MLB pitching? Btw Biggio was an 80th percentile runner last season and 72nd percentile this season, he's much faster than a 45 FV which would be below average lol. I'm pretty sure that's basically a 60 FV. I guess because he runs in long strides the scouts thought he didn't actually seem that athletic and just put him down as below average? Scouts are dumn.

[Carlos Danger]

Why would we sign Kim to be a CF when he's never played an inning outside the infield professionally? Why would he sign us when other teams are offering him starting SS or 3B roles and we're the ones that want him to learn a new position as he also gets adjusted to MLB pitching? Btw Biggio was an 80th percentile runner last season and 72nd percentile this season, he's much faster than a 45 FV which would be below average lol. I'm pretty sure that's basically a 60 FV. I guess because he runs in long strides the scouts thought he didn't actually seem that athletic and just put him down as below average? Scouts are dumn.

 

Spot on post!

 

Biggio was a WR on his high school football team, in Texas, where they take that s*** seriously and they don't give it to anyone. He has speed and knows how to run routes. The Scouts have been saying Biggio is slow forever now among other issues that he has consistently proven them they are wrong about at the MLB level.

[Deadpool]

Spot on post!

 

Biggio was a WR on his high school football team, in Texas, where they take that s*** seriously and they don't give it to anyone. He has speed and knows how to run routes. The Scouts have been saying Biggio is slow forever now among other issues that he has consistently proven them they are wrong about at the MLB level.

 

If you've got the last name Biggio and you are going to school in Texas, you can tell them you want to play WR and you're going to be playing WR. Not that I'm disputing that he's a good athlete, just that his last name carries a lot of weight.

[connorp]

Also depends how big the school was. If it was big time Texas football, I’d be impressed

[Spanky99]

Also depends how big the school was. If it was big time Texas football, I’d be impressed

 

He went to ND(The Fighting Irish), I don't know what Carlos is talking about man. But they are a bigtime football club.

 

Oops he meant HS... nevermind.

[Laika]

They are talking about high school. I think he went to a private high school so probably not "big time Texas football"

 

Regardless, Biggio might be a good anecdote for not making kids focus on one sport. He played baseball and football all through high school - that was probably great for his athleticism, generally speaking, and his sports brain (save and except any concussions or brain injuries!). I know this is a bit ironic but if all he does through high school is play baseball, does he still do all these little things right and perform beyond his physical tools?

[connorp]

He went to ND(The Fighting Irish), I don't know what Carlos is talking about man. But they are a bigtime football club.

 

Oops he meant HS... nevermind.

 

Yeah he meant hs, so I was seeing if Biggio was like that Scott Caan character in Varsity Blues. Apparently not though

But you learn something new every day, I didn’t realize Norte Dame had a big football club. Thanks for filling me in

[Virgil_Hiltz]

Yeah he meant hs, so I was seeing if Biggio was like that Scott Caan character in Varsity Blues. Apparently not though

But you learn something new every day,I didn’t realize Norte Dame had a big football club. Thanks for filling me in

Maybe the biggest one through the decades, it has waned the last little while but yeah, I place ND right there with Bama and a few others!

[Spanky99]

Maybe the biggest one through the decades, it has waned the last little while but yeah, I place ND right there with Bama and a few others!

 

That was the joke fellas.

[G-Snarls]

I really want the Jays to make one impactful signing or trade soon so that we can see the overall plan start to unfold and know that we've added at least one substantial piece

[Carlos Danger]

They are talking about high school. I think he went to a private high school so probably not "big time Texas football"

 

Regardless, Biggio might be a good anecdote for not making kids focus on one sport. He played baseball and football all through high school - that was probably great for his athleticism, generally speaking, and his sports brain (save and except any concussions or brain injuries!). I know this is a bit ironic but if all he does through high school is play baseball, does he still do all these little things right and perform beyond his physical tools?

 

Might not be "BIG" time relative to overall High school Rankings in Texas. However, they are 6A private school conference and have a number of championships..

 

I would say they definitely take football seriously.

 

https://www.sths.org/athletics/

[Virgil_Hiltz]

delete

[Spanky99]

delete

 

Hmm... lol

 

[keggy]

Biggio through a full season so far (159 games) is about where Alomar was in his first full season as a Jay in 1991. Alomar had 4.3 WAR, Biggio 3.9.

 

How are they so close?

 

Biggio walked more - 110 to 50 or so

Both were great baserunners - Biggio 20-0, Alomar 50-10 or so, that's about the same

Biggio has more power

Biggio is slightly negative defensively, but so was Alomar. Even the baby stats of the 90s showed that. It was a mystery.

 

Alomar took a step forward in 1992/93. More walks, added power in 93.

 

Still, Biggio is at about the same point as Alomar 1991. Biggio is 25, so no guarantee he'll take a step forward, but if he does he'll be really good.

 

They are very different players. Biggio would have to become a batting title level hitter to become Alomar. With his strikeout rates and batted ball profile that will never, ever happen.

 

Chase Utley is a better comparison but even that's a stretch.