Offseason Roster Thread 2019-2020

[Slade]

The loser mentality in this thread is getting high. JP Ricciardi did a number on the psyche of Jays fans to justify his mediocre tenure (and then went on to sign AJ Burnett). If the Jays fail to sign two pitchers better than anyone currently on the roster it is a failing of the front office, nothing more.

 

That's a pretty low feat considering what our roster looks like.

[Spanky99]

Mark Shapiro interview on Vladito's off-season regiment, being aggressive in this FA pitching market, CBA, etc...

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/590/lead-off/mark-shapiro-free-agency-dollars-not-issue-alignment-fit-will-challenge/

 

The loser mentality in this thread is getting high. JP Ricciardi did a number on the psyche of Jays fans to justify his mediocre tenure (and then went on to sign AJ Burnett). If the Jays fail to sign two pitchers better than anyone currently on the roster it is a failing of the front office, nothing more.

 

Did you see this... cause I think others failed to get a bit excited by this interview, lol.

[polar bear]

Yeah there's no chance we sign a QO player. I also think Ryu should get multiple 3 year offers so we prob would have to offer that 4th year.

 

Short term deals, or sure things (or as close to that as is possible) in free agency would be my preference while we are still a relatively bad team, with a very promising developing core. IMO I'd rather make risker moves (overpaying to get an ace for example) when the pay off = a potential World Series or two.

 

Where I'm fully behind taking on salary right now is in the trade market to take advantage of teams looking to shed payroll.

 

Glass half empty Yorkshireman.

[Dick_Pole]

Did you see this... cause I think others failed to get a bit excited by this interview, lol.

 

Meh. FO interviews in early November don't hold much weight with me one way or another. Let's see where the team stands in a month after the winter meetings.

[Spanky99]

Meh. FO interviews in early November don't hold much weight with me one way or another. Let's see where the team stands in a month after the winter meetings.

 

Yeah, me neither really, just found the killjoy weird.

[Laika]

If you're going to give up the 2nd rounder, then you might as well sign as many as you can.

 

But I think there are other teams with top 15 protected 1sts that are going to prop that market up. Reds, Angels, Rangers, White Sox, I think.

 

Every team's highest pick is protected. Nobody loses a 1st round pick unless they have multiple 1st round picks somehow, then they could lose their second best.

[RobinThicc]

[Terminator]

 

Could be an interesting sell-high move but given that he's making peanuts for the next 4 seasons I'd be careful in moving him. If his breakout is legit that's a lot of surplus value and if it's not he's still probably established that he's worthy of a roster spot as a 3 million dollar bench player.

 

I wouldn't mind keeping him and having him play some 1B in addition to LF. Moving him even further down the defensive spectrum isn't ideal but more versatility isn't a bad thing. Could be a good way to give everyone enough ABs, particularly if we bring on a starting-caliber CF.

[LGBJ29]

 

Could be an interesting sell-high move but given that he's making peanuts for the next 4 seasons I'd be careful in moving him. If his breakout is legit that's a lot of surplus value and if it's not he's still probably established that he's worthy of a roster spot as a 3 million dollar bench player.

 

I wouldn't mind keeping him and having him play some 1B in addition to LF. Moving him even further down the defensive spectrum isn't ideal but more versatility isn't a bad thing. Could be a good way to give everyone enough ABs, particularly if we bring on a starting-caliber CF.

 

While all that is nice, those are all selling points and his value might never be higher. If someone is willing to pay a premium for him Ross should be all ears.

[bones10]

 

Could be an interesting sell-high move but given that he's making peanuts for the next 4 seasons I'd be careful in moving him. If his breakout is legit that's a lot of surplus value and if it's not he's still probably established that he's worthy of a roster spot as a 3 million dollar bench player.

 

I wouldn't mind keeping him and having him play some 1B in addition to LF. Moving him even further down the defensive spectrum isn't ideal but more versatility isn't a bad thing. Could be a good way to give everyone enough ABs, particularly if we bring on a starting-caliber CF.

 

We can barely fill an outfield as is and gurriel limped to the finish line, no thanks.

[Laika]

Ah yes. And also if we sign another QO guy, we lose our 3rd highest pick. So there goes that idea.

 

Seems like a dumb idea to have the worst teams give up a more valuable pick to try and improve their team. I guess they tie it into revenue sharing but still seems dumb.

 

Edit: We literally have the most to lose lol? The 4 teams below us all got revenue sharing so they give up a 3rd, god damn injustice.

 

Revenue sharing and all of its associated rules and ramifications are a blight on the great game of baseball. Shame.

 

The QO system should not have penalties for the signing teams, but if it must, then the signing teams should lose a set amount of signing bonus space and/or international signing space for signing a QO player but they should not lose the entire pick. They'd just be forced to pick a below slot value player.

 

There, that wasn't so hard. I fixed the entire system. Hire me, MLB.

[glory]

Don’t think there’s a chance in hell they move Gurriel. He makes nothing, he’s the only OF on the team who can hit, his statcast numbers are good, and no one internally is pushing to take over LF. Would make no sense. Obviously if they get an amazing return then it’s worth looking into, but I don’t see it.

[Dick_Pole]

As easy at it should be to fill out starting pitching given this crop of free agents, it's much, much easier to fill out corner OF options with okay defense and big bats with multiple options at any year. With little commitment and at a decent price for basically anyone above 30 nowadays.

 

If you can get a pitcher that can slot in #2 with 3+ years of control, even considering the more expensive salary, for Gurriel, you do it 10 times out of 10. He is the most tradeable asset PR wise given his status as the Brian Epstein of the Guerrero, Bichette, Biggio and Jansen quartet anyways.

[Spanky99]

While all that is nice, those are all selling points and his value might never be higher. If someone is willing to pay a premium for him Ross should be all ears.

 

As easy at it should be to fill out starting pitching given this crop of free agents, it's much, much easier to fill out corner OF options with okay defense and big bats with multiple options at any year. With little commitment and at a decent price for basically anyone above 30 nowadays.

 

If you can get a pitcher that can slot in #2 with 3+ years of control, even considering the more expensive salary, for Gurriel, you do it 10 times out of 10. He is the most tradeable asset PR wise given his status as the Brian Epstein of the Guerrero, Bichette, Biggio and Jansen quartet anyways.

 

That's fine, only then do you do something as rash as that, I agree on that front. Otherwise, f*** that.

[Dick_Pole]

Oh yes, I'm assuming any trade involving Gurriel will not be the John Olerud for Robert Person kind. That should go without saying.

[Ex Player]

Tepera has cleared waivers

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/blue-jays-reliever-ryan-tepera-clears-waivers-becomes-free-agent/

[L54]

100% on board moving LGJ. He’s like a 115 wRC+ corner outfielder. If that gets you a rotation arm you do it

[Jimcanuck]

If Gurriel is moved, this would suggest the Jays have a FA OF lined up.

 

I'm sure a lot of teams will be interested in Gurriel given his contract and positional flexibility.

[glory]

Maybe I'm more bullish on Gurriel than others, but I can see a 120-130 wRC+ bat in there. Only thing that might hold him back is lack of walks but he improved last season in that area. Statcast numbers suggest he's not fluking his way to good numbers. I mean if a team is offering a great package for him, then obviously you pay attention, but given his years of control and salary, I think he's closer to a core piece than he is an expendable one. The one downside is he appears to be injury prone. If the team determines that's going to continue going forward then maybe a trade makes more sense now (selling high).

[Sorrow]

I haven't really paid attention to the Diamond Backs but would move LGJ for Luke Weaver or Zac Gallen instantly with no regrets. I think finding either internally or externally a passable LF is going to be easier than finding an under control arm that may project in the mid to front of a rotation.

 

Only reason I mention Arizona is because IIRC they could use OF help.

[Spanky99]

I haven't really paid attention to the Diamond Backs but would move LGJ for Luke Weaver or Zac Gallen instantly with no regrets. I think finding either internally or externally a passable LF is going to be easier than finding an under control arm that may project in the mid to front of a rotation.

 

Only reason I mention Arizona is because IIRC they could use OF help.

 

Why not keep LGJ, and buy pitching, it's the largest market I've seen in quite awhile.

[keggy]

Why not keep LGJ, and buy pitching, it's the largest market I've seen in quite awhile.

 

I think this is the wisest path. Gurriel isn't going to land you an ace anyways, and mid-level pitching is affordable on the open market.

 

I understand the desire to sell high due to Gurriel's risk profile, but our outfield is so bad I think he needs to stay on the books. Or better yet, sign pitching, sign one or two league average outfielders, and trade Gurriel for prospects.

[Bobthe4th]

Gurriel is exactly the kind of player we should be keeping. Cheap, controllable, and just had a very good season in a position of weakness. Even if last year was a fluke and he isn't a full time outfielder, he should be able to be a decent utility player.

 

If he's traded for prospects and we roll with an outfield of McKinney, Fisher, and Grichuk it undermines any pretence at trying to win next year.

[glory]

Why not keep LGJ, and buy pitching, it's the largest market I've seen in quite awhile.

 

Agreed. There are a surplus of #3 level starters available in free agency. They won’t be cheap, but cost should be reasonable, and they’ll only cost money (not picks or players) which the Jays have to spend. Sign two of them and keep your best outfielder at the same time. Seems like a better strategy. No one is trading a young ace for Gurriel, so if we’d be getting back a cheap/young #3 starter, then keep Gurriel and just sign a veteran #3 caliber starter like Keuchel (for example). Seems more logical and less risky (young pitching prospects are dangerous to trade for).

[Spanky99]

Agreed. There are a surplus of #3 level starters available in free agency. They won’t be cheap, but cost should be reasonable, and they’ll only cost money (not picks or players) which the Jays have to spend. Sign two of them and keep your best outfielder at the same time. Seems like a better strategy. No one is trading a young ace for Gurriel, so if we’d be getting back a cheap/young #3 starter, then keep Gurriel and just sign a veteran #3 caliber starter like Keuchel (for example). Seems more logical and less risky (young pitching prospects are dangerous to trade for).

 

I thought I heard this, smart, again

[Dick_Pole]

Curtis Granderson 2018: wRC+ 116. 1 year $5 million contract

 

I'm not saying definitely trade Gurriel. But let's not act as if he is irreplaceable. Corner outfielders projected to be 15% above average hitters are dime a dozen now. The fact that the Jays outfield is in the shape it's in is an indictment of the moves the FO has made recently to fill OF spots. Not an indication of the outfield market or what the FO could potentially do this offseason for the position.

 

If the Jays can sign two good pitchers, I am happy with that. If they end up signing only one pitcher and one outfielder and trade Gurriel, I am fine with that too, depending on the details of each move. Somehow I think the latter will be more attainable.

[Spanky99]

Curtis Granderson 2018: wRC+ 116. 1 year $5 million contract

 

I'm not saying definitely trade Gurriel. But let's not act as if he is irreplaceable. Corner outfielders projected to be 15% above average hitters are dime a dozen now. The fact that the Jays outfield is in the shape it's in is an indictment of the moves the FO has made recently to fill OF spots. Not an indication of the outfield market or what the FO could potentially do this offseason for the position.

 

If the Jays can sign two good pitchers, I am happy with that. If they end up signing only one pitcher and one outfielder and trade Gurriel, I am fine with that too, depending on the details of each move. Somehow I think the latter will be more attainable.

 

This is dumn.

[Olerud363]

This is dumn.

 

I don't get what it is with this board and the aging curve lately. You may not like Rowdy Tellez and Gurriel, but they are 25... they will likely be a bit better next year and are headed to their best 2 or 3 years... replacing them with say, Curtis Granderson and EE would add 15 million to the payroll and no wins.

 

I mean now that Granderson has fallen off a cliff I assume no one would really want him... but if you take a mid to late 30 somethings that has the same WAR as Gurriel, maybe Granderson last year, that guy will be getting worse, maybe significantly worse.

[Dick_Pole]

At no time did I say that the Blue Jays should sign Curtis Granderson in 2020. My goodness, do you guys have Don Cherry on the brain and getting early dementia?

 

I thought it was pretty obvious when I say any trade involving Gurriel would ideally bring back a young pitcher with control. Making the aging curve argument moot because you're replacing one player headed into his prime with another. Then you replace Gurriel's production with an older player signed to a 1-2 year deal, ideally replacing him in 2 years with a similar player to a similar contract. This may be an easier route for the Jays than trying to fill all of their major pitching holes strictly through free agency. But if they do manage to fill existing holes through free agency, I am happy for them to keep Gurriel.

[L54]

Gurriel is the first position player I’d move on this team to fill a need in the rotation. Doesn’t walk, K’s a bunch, allergic to the infield and can’t play CF. If someone is willing to give up a rotation piece I would be all over it.

 

DP is pretty clearly saying replacing an average corner OF bat isn’t very difficult, and if you can move one for a long term rotation piece it probably makes sense to do so.

 

Calhoun, Dickerson, Gardner, Avisail, make sense as FA. I don’t think LGJ as it stands today is a four or even three win player by any stretch.