Stroman to the... METS!?

[Dick_Pole]

I said I didn't like it yesterday. I said I still don't like it today. Am I an apologist because I'm not swearing and throwing a tantrum about it?

 

I wasn't at any point referring to you. Not everything revolves around you, sir. No wonder you're such a downer a lot of the time. You must be one of those guys who think people are always talking bad s*** about him behind his back.

[saskjayfan]

Give me Kay over Borucki every day of the week.

 

I also like WR more than Pardinho, like you stated I prefer his upside more.

 

Do you have a poster or Ross in your room?

[Dick_Pole]

Wait, what? You're including a hypothetical extension in Stroman's current value?

 

That's not show this s*** works, Dick. You know we get the prospects and keep the money, right?

 

Fair enough. That still doesn't take away from my overall point that Ross Atkins is a little four-eyed weenie beta male who continually backs himself into a corner when it comes to trading players and somehow comes out of that even worse off from his lack of negotiating skills.

[jaysguy44]

Do you have a poster or Ross in your room?

 

Yes.

 

Well it's a duo poster, Shapiro is in it as well.

 

Good one, idiot.

[Jimcanuck]

The apologists are trying to take over the thread again. They need to learn how to separate negotiator (a good GM's skill) from talent evaluator (an underling to the GM's skill).

 

These two pitchers may very well be good and the Jays can maximize their potential through player development, good coaching or whatever. But that does not take away from the fact that the trade is still s*****.

 

What's the point of extracting excess value out of players through good scouting, computer algos, PD etc., if you're going to overpay for the guys in the first place? You're just undoing all of that excess value. Stroman likely puts up 15+ WAR over the next five years. That's a pretty high bar already for these two guys just to breakeven on the trade, particularly since they'll probably be 0 WAR through 2020. I guess you could say Stroman wouldn't re-sign here given recent revelations, but that was Atkins' fault too. You can't destroy the value of an asset then sell low on that asset and not take blame for at least one of those events.

 

Ross Atkins may be a perfectly fine stat geek where he can pick up good players out of a draft then convince 18-21 year olds to sign relatively team-friendly bonuses, but he's a s*** negotiator when it comes to dealing with his GM peers. He needs to be ousted from GM role. I'd accept a demotion, but no man with any pride would go along with that so I guess the Jays have to fire him. Then again, if there ever was a man to accept a demotion, this beta male would make a pretty good candidate.

 

You have no idea what the market was like. The Mets package may well have been clearly superior to anything else offered.

 

Overall, I am fine with where Shatkins is taking the club. The future looks good.

[saskjayfan]

Yes.

 

Well it's a duo poster, Shapiro is in it as well.

 

Good one, idiot.

 

ooh...a shatkins poster.....sexy!

[saskjayfan]

You have no idea what the market was like. The Mets package may well have been clearly superior to anything else offered.

 

Overall, I am fine with where Shatkins is taking the club. The future looks good.

 

Is it better than what they would have gotten in the off season dealing with more teams? That's up for debate.

[Jonn]

Casual fans are going in on anybody on twitter that has a rational thought on the Stroman trade lol.

[Jimcanuck]

Is it better than what they would have gotten in the off season dealing with more teams? That's up for debate.

 

Debate all you want. The great Branch Rickey "Better to trade a guy a year too early than a year too late." Stroman injury or suckage in addition to the loss of service time, is always possible. No brainer to move him now assuming his demands were unreasonable, probable given his douchebaggery and his douchebag agent.

[Brownie19]

Do you have a poster or Ross in your room?

 

You've been an ignorant **** all day man. Kay over Borucki and SWR over Pardinho is a pretty common opinion.

[jaysguy44]

Is it better than what they would have gotten in the off season dealing with more teams? That's up for debate.

 

Yes, let's potentially have a Donaldson situation again.

 

Good plan.

[glory]

Well the one thing that makes the deal slightly less bad is the fact that there is absolutely no way Stro would have signed an extension here, nor would Shatkins have overpaid to keep him. The relationship with the front office was completely beyond repair. So while they didn't "have to" trade him, it was a case of diminishing returns the longer they held on to him. If an extension was actually realistic, then that would have changed things, but trading him now was basically the peak of his value. Doesn't make the return any less underwhelming, but the backstory about their relationship adds a new dimension to this.

[Krylian]

I wasn't at any point referring to you. Not everything revolves around you, sir. No wonder you're such a downer a lot of the time. You must be one of those guys who think people are always talking bad s*** about him behind his back.

 

Your post was shortly after mine so I made that incorrect assumption. Feel free to talk about me behind my back all you want.

[Krylian]

Debate all you want. The great Branch Rickey "Better to trade a guy a year too early than a year too late." Stroman injury or suckage in addition to the loss of service time, is always possible. No brainer to move him now assuming his demands were unreasonable, probable given his douchebaggery and his douchebag agent.

 

This is true. We only need to look at Josh Donaldson.

[connorp]

This has prob been posted but I just saw it and lol’d:

 

This GM talking about Kay. Can’t excite me on this transaction more than this:

 

He comes right into fold with Sean Reid-Foley, Ryan Borucki, Jacob Waguespack and Thomas Pannone and will be another piece to that equation."

[Jimcanuck]

This is true. We only need to look at Josh Donaldson.

 

Receny Jays history the two big clusterf***s are the dickey trade and holding onto JD too long

[Krylian]

This has prob been posted but I just saw it and lol’d:

 

This GM talking about Kay. Can’t excite me on this transaction more than this:

 

He comes right into fold with Sean Reid-Foley, Ryan Borucki, Jacob Waguespack and Thomas Pannone and will be another piece to that equation."

 

That equation is invalid.

[jaysguy44]

Ross Atkins says BlueJays project Simeon Woods Richardson as “one of the most exciting young pitching prospects in baseball”

 

Sell it Ross! Weooo

[Pendleton]

This has prob been posted but I just saw it and lol’d:

 

This GM talking about Kay. Can’t excite me on this transaction more than this:

 

He comes right into fold with Sean Reid-Foley, Ryan Borucki, Jacob Waguespack and Thomas Pannone and will be another piece to that equation."

 

The equation being our current major league/AAA pitching depth.

[Pendleton]

Ross Atkins says BlueJays project Simeon Woods Richardson as “one of the most exciting young pitching prospects in baseball”

 

Sell it Ross! Weooo

 

It's not like it's only the Blue Jays sharing this opinion.

[jaysguy44]

It's not like it's only the Blue Jays sharing this opinion.

 

I mean I guess it depends on how many pitchers are in that category.

 

I do love SWR though, top 100 prospect next year.

[Ex Player]

Not so nice words from the US media: https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/rival-watch-mlb-network-host-calls-marcus-stroman-overrated/sn-amp/

[saskjayfan]

I mean I guess it depends on how many pitchers are in that category.

 

I do love SWR though, top 100 prospect next year.

 

what do you like best about him

[saskjayfan]

Debate all you want. The great Branch Rickey "Better to trade a guy a year too early than a year too late." Stroman injury or suckage in addition to the loss of service time, is always possible. No brainer to move him now assuming his demands were unreasonable, probable given his douchebaggery and his douchebag agent.

 

I didn't even say I thought the return would be better or worse in the off season and I certainly get the injury risk. I just go back to the trade deadline thread a couple weeks ago where some posters said if we don't get great offers we can just hold on to him. I said, we're going to take the best offer available regardless of how good it is. I also said the return would be crap. Given the trade ideas people were floating we got far less than what some people thought we would or were hoping we would. The shatkins fan club is now trying to talk about what a fantastic deal this is...lol

[saskjayfan]

You've been an ignorant **** all day man. Kay over Borucki and SWR over Pardinho is a pretty common opinion.

 

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure name calling is against the rules...lol. Borucki put up 1.6 wins in 97.2 innings last year. I'm pretty sure there's room for debate as to whether Kay is better than Borucki. Only a Shatkins fanboy would say that's obvious.

[Jimcanuck]

I didn't even say I thought the return would be better or worse in the off season and I certainly get the injury risk. I just go back to the trade deadline thread a couple weeks ago where some posters said if we don't get great offers we can just hold on to him. I said, we're going to take the best offer available regardless of how good it is. I also said the return would be crap. Given the trade ideas people were floating we got far less than what some people thought we would or were hoping we would. The shatkins fan club is now trying to talk about what a fantastic deal this is...lol

 

Nobody is saying its a fantastic deal.

[5ToolPhenom]

Bottom line is, if you're gonna trade the best starting pitcher on the market, you gotta get a piece or 2 that are nearly ready to make an impact at the big league level. Just consider how many promising hard throwing pitchers in A ball that have never panned out. SWR's path to the big leagues is so far away and anything can happen... We all now how these guys can drop like flies with injuries. And then there's Kay who's already 24 and hasn't performed at a satisfactory level above AA where he's only netted 66 innings.

 

It's a s*** trade, no 2 ways about it. Many of you guys are trying to put lipstick on a pig with this one.

[jaysguy44]

Bottom line is, if you're gonna trade the best starting pitcher on the trade market, you gotta get a piece or 2 that are nearly ready to make an impact at the big league level. Just consider how many promising hard throwing pitchers in A ball never panned out. SWR's path to the big leagues is so far away and anything can happen... We all now how these kind of guys can drop like flies with injuries. And then there's Kay who's already 24 and hasn't performed in a satisfactory way above AA where he's only netted 66 innings.

 

It's a s*** trade, no 2 ways about it. Many of you guys are trying to put lipstick on a pig with this one.

 

Do you suppose we force teams to trade their top prospects to us?

 

The deal wasn't there, move on.

[5ToolPhenom]

I gotta say, I'm surprised at all the people s***ing on Stroman. He's easily been our best pitcher since Roy Halladay and he's a blast to watch. He's provided us with some of the more sensational story lines and moments than anyone since the 92/93 WS runs. Sure, he's certainly a cocky kinda guy, but if he puts up results, who really cares? No one seemed bothered when guys like Clemens and Shilling acted arrogantly, I honestly think there's a little racism involved here.

 

Stroman's been one of the funnest Jays to watch in recent memory. Right up there with guys like Bautista and Encarnacion. I'm sad that he's gone and disappointed with the assets they got for him.

[5ToolPhenom]

Do you suppose we force teams to trade their top prospects to us?

 

The deal wasn't there, move on.

 

They panicked and made the deal 4 days before the deadline. How do you know what offers may have arose? He's the best guy on the market, once other guys started to get traded the demand would've picked up... And if not, then I assume the Mets deal would still be there for the taking.

 

It's amateur hour all around with this deal and even rival scouts and analysts are left scratching their heads.