Stroman to the... METS!?

[AintNoThang]

I'm not really blaming Atkins for the trade. I just hate how we missed out trading him when propsects were more readily available to trade for playoff pushes.

 

From reports I heard the Braves weren't interested, the Padres would prefer someone like Syndergaard, the Yanks weren't going to offer Garcia, the Twins said they weren't willing to trade top propsects, and the Astros didn't seem to make a big push.

 

Atkins was just on Tim and Sid, and said there were 4 teams that were really interested, and the Mets had the highest value placed on Stroman. That package was the best offered. He also said that he went back to those other teams hoping they would move and add more value to their offers, and they wouldn't.

 

I heard reports that prior to the trade, people were going to be disappointed in the return. But getting two pitching prospects who currently rank 4 and 6 in our system isn't the end of the world for a year and a couple months of Stroman. We knew he wasn't staying despite what he kept saying to the media. He wanted to test out free agency and hopes to sign with the Yankees.

[jaysguy44]

Stroman is a douchebag, who literally manipulates the s*** out of some of the fan base to make you love him.

 

He's an easy guy to cheer against now, and I'm looking forward to the future.

[Spanky99]

Holy f***, Stroman asking his boss' boss to leave the room during a meeting. Mark Shapiro seems to have pretty pendulous balls, and I have no idea how he lets a beta of this magnitude run his baseball team.

 

I also don't really believe that Stroman was ever made a reasonable contract offer.

 

I believe they gave him an offer of something in the neighbourhood of 5/75 prior to this season, and that they were so far apart it was never addressed again. Especially after the season he's had up until now. They were likely better off trading him, as I said in my last post, Atkins sent him to a non contender out of spite, not exactly the way you'd want a GM doing business, but that's pure speculation on my part after reading that article. If Atkins were moved, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. It was fueled by Stroman and not handled properly by our GM.

[Abomination]

They were likely better off trading him, as I said in my last post, Atkins sent him to a non contender out of spite, not exactly the way you'd want a GM doing business, but that's pure speculation on my part after reading that article.

 

I don't think that's the case. Hell, Stroman grew up a Mets fan (I think) and has a lot of family in New York. If Atkins sent him there out of spite, he's doing it wrong. He should have sent him to Colorado or something.

[Boxcar]

I have to wonder if Atkins didnt trade Stro to the non-contending Mets on purpose, just to get under his skin.

According to this article he and Stro didnt exactly get along:

 

https://www.thestar.com/sports/bluejays/opinion/2019/07/28/theres-plenty-of-blame-to-go-around-after-stroman-and-blue-jays-finalize-divorce.html

 

I gotta say, while I'm underwhelmed by the return, I won't deny I'm enjoying the fact that Atkins sent him to a s***** team in the NL with the league's worst IF defense.

[Captain Adama]

The more I hear this

 

The more I am sure Shaprio has hired Atkins on some sort of an equal employer opportunity program

 

I would be very surprised if Atkins is not on the spectrum

 

You would know.

[Boxcar]

As a GM you manage players personalities. Some are easy as pie, others are like pulling teeth out. It's pretty clear that Marcus stroman is a baby, so why go through arbitration twice over a few hundred thousand dollars. Some have the ability to smooth things out after highly contested events like this, others get kicked out of the f***ing room and they are suppose to be the boss. Say what you want about Atkins, but he doesn't scream most charismatic guy in the room.

 

So, to be clear, you're upset with Ross Atkins because he didn't just cave to all of Stroman's pissy little demands. Am I characterizing that correctly?

[jaysguy44]

I gotta say, while I'm underwhelmed by the return, I won't deny I'm enjoying the fact that Atkins sent him to a s***** team in the NL with the league's worst IF defense.

 

Lol same.

 

Atkins-"Stro, we've traded you to New York".

 

Stro- "hell yes, thank you Ross"

 

Atkins- "You'll be a great Met"

[Spanky99]

I don't think that's the case. Hell, Stroman grew up a Mets fan (I think) and has a lot of family in New York. If Atkins sent him there out of spite, he's doing it wrong. He should have sent him to Colorado or something.

 

No, a Yankee fan... also he flipped out yesterday by not being sent to a contender... did you miss that?

[Abomination]

No, a Yankee fan... also he flipped out yesterday by not being sent to a contender... did you miss that?

 

No, I realize he wanted to go to a contender, but sending you to where your family is and where you grew up (at least in this case) is hardly a screw job. His dad seems really happy about it.

 

I know there's a photo of him as a toddler wearing a Mets jacket as well.

[Spanky99]

No, I realize he wanted to go to a contender, but sending you to where your family is and where you grew up (at least in this case) is hardly a screw job. His dad seems really happy about it.

 

I know there's a photo of him as a toddler wearing a Mets jacket as well.

 

Abom, I'm simply talking about the team's success, nothing more.

[Terminator]

The more I hear this

 

The more I am sure Shaprio has hired Atkins on some sort of an equal employer opportunity program

 

I would be very surprised if Atkins is not on the spectrum

 

Lol ok this is funny s***

[Abomination]

Abom, I'm simply talking about the team's success, nothing more.

 

You suggested he was sent to a (potential) non-contender out of spite. That would imply a personal motive on Atkin's part. It would be ... odd to say the least for Atkins to do so on one level, while sending him to a region he wants to be at in another. It just doesn't fit.

 

I think the reason he was traded rather than re-signed was due to bad blood. I see no evidence that his destination had anything to do with that.

[Spanky99]

You suggested he was sent to a (potential) non-contender out of spite. That would imply a personal motive on Atkin's part. It would be ... odd to say the least for Atkins to do so on one level, while sending him to a region he wants to be at in another. It just doesn't fit.

 

I think the reason he was traded rather than re-signed was due to bad blood. I see no evidence that his destination had anything to do with that.

 

Okay. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[SAAviour]

I wonder if Atkins did something to piss Stroman off that caused the outburst in the locker room? It would have been so easy to break the news to Stroman that he is heading to New York. Then wait til Stroman finds out its the Mets after the fact. Who would guess the Mets if you just told him New York.

[The Cats Ass]

I wonder if Atkins did something to piss Stroman off that caused the outburst in the locker room? It would have been so easy to break the news to Stroman that he is heading to New York. Then wait til Stroman finds out its the Mets after the fact. Who would guess the Mets if you just told him New York.

 

That would be kind of hilarious if they did. Tell him to pack his bags, he's flying to NY. Then the Mets meet him at the terminal holding a Stroman sign.

[saskjayfan]

I wonder if Atkins did something to piss Stroman off that caused the outburst in the locker room? It would have been so easy to break the news to Stroman that he is heading to New York. Then wait til Stroman finds out its the Mets after the fact. Who would guess the Mets if you just told him New York.

 

maybe that's what he did, but maybe stro follows rosenthal on twitter and found out it was the mets..lol News travels fast.

[DigitalRock]

Yeah, the part where he told Atkins to leave the room wasnt very smart (assuming thats what really happened). Also another rumor I heard on radio today was Yankees didnt want Stro for that exact reason, too much attitude in the dressing room.

 

Its too bad cause I kinda liked him as a pitcher

 

If true.... Good riddance.

[DigitalRock]

Atkins has no personality.... Casuals hate him.

[jaysguy44]

Atkins has no personality.... Casuals hate him.

 

Casuals are the worst

 

Want a good laugh? Read what fans say when it comes to everything Jays on Twitter & Facebook.

[DigitalRock]

Casuals are the worst

 

Want a good laugh? Read what fans say when it comes to everything Jays on Twitter & Facebook.

 

I'm not subjecting myself to that.

[jaysguy44]

I'm not subjecting myself to that.

 

Haha good call.

[glory]

There are pluses and minuses to the way Atkins acted. JD apparently talked s*** to Beane in Oakland, and Beane wasn't having any of it, so they shipped him out immediately. It only took them three years to bounce back so no long term harm done, but that was a bad trade. On the flip side, Atkins took all of Stro's s***, probably in part to preserve trade value, and then moved him when an opportunity presented itself. If he had traded him the minute that "get out of this office, I'm only talking to Gibby and Walker" meeting happened, then he may have also made a reactionary deal out of anger. Would it have been better, worse, who knows?

 

Regardless, there is a clear lack of respect towards Atkins by players. The players should not feel comfortable publicly bashing a front office. Either hire someone who can communicate to players as an AGM, or grow a backbone.

 

Whether any of this changes my thoughts on the trade return, I'm honestly not sure. I wouldn't be surprised if Stro's value wasn't as high as we thought because of his low K/GB tendencies. On the flip side, I find it hard to believe no one else would top this offer, or the Mets couldn't have added something to the deal. It's entirely possible that Atkins identified SWR as the guy he wanted more than any other offer he was getting, and just did the best he could with that.

[BillyTheKid]

If Stroman was truly whining about being traded to the Mets I'm dumbfounded by his stupidity for several reasons:

 

1) You don't get to choose which teams your traded to normally (it doesn't work that way for obvious reasons), shut the f*** up and take it... don't whine like a little bitch

 

2) You should be grateful you're going to the city you grew up in / want to be a part of

 

3) The Mets have some serious talent, I see no reason they can't compete next year, barring some kind of dismantling which wouldn't make a ton of sense after this move

[Krylian]

Ok. I've had a day or so to think about this deal.

 

Initial reaction. Didn't like it. f*** Atkins. Thought they should've gotten more for Stroman.

 

Reaction today. Don't like it... But don't hate it as much. A little disappointed as I still think they should've gotten more. Basically, to put it in Jays prospect terms, I see Kay as a Borucki calibre guy. Likely back of the rotation guy, which isn't sexy, but every team needs those guys. If everything breaks perfectly, he might be a #3 guy, but likely not. As for Woods-Richardson, he's in Pardinho territory right now, with a higher ceiling I think. So, if you told me before Stroman was dealt that we'd get back Borucki and slightly better Pardinho for him I honestly wouldn't hate it. I would've liked a Dasan Brown type thrown in as a 3rd piece, but this isn't nearly the bomb that my initial reaction believed.

[P2F]

Ok. I've had a day or so to think about this deal.

 

Initial reaction. Didn't like it. f*** Atkins. Thought they should've gotten more for Stroman.

 

Reaction today. Don't like it... But don't hate it as much. A little disappointed as I still think they should've gotten more. Basically, to put it in Jays prospect terms, I see Kay as a Borucki calibre guy. Likely back of the rotation guy, which isn't sexy, but every team needs those guys. If everything breaks perfectly, he might be a #3 guy, but likely not. As for Woods-Richardson, he's in Pardinho territory right now, with a higher ceiling I think. So, if you told me before Stroman was dealt that we'd get back Borucki and slightly better Pardinho for him I honestly wouldn't hate it. I would've liked a Dasan Brown type thrown in as a 3rd piece, but this isn't nearly the bomb that my initial reaction believed.

 

I think you're lower on both guys than you should be.

[Dick_Pole]

The apologists are trying to take over the thread again. They need to learn how to separate negotiator (a good GM's skill) from talent evaluator (an underling to the GM's skill).

 

These two pitchers may very well be good and the Jays can maximize their potential through player development, good coaching or whatever. But that does not take away from the fact that the trade is still s*****.

 

What's the point of extracting excess value out of players through good scouting, computer algos, PD etc., if you're going to overpay for the guys in the first place? You're just undoing all of that excess value. Stroman likely puts up 15+ WAR over the next five years. That's a pretty high bar already for these two guys just to breakeven on the trade, particularly since they'll probably be 0 WAR through 2020. I guess you could say Stroman wouldn't re-sign here given recent revelations, but that was Atkins' fault too. You can't destroy the value of an asset then sell low on that asset and not take blame for at least one of those events.

 

Ross Atkins may be a perfectly fine stat geek where he can pick up good players out of a draft then convince 18-21 year olds to sign relatively team-friendly bonuses, but he's a s*** negotiator when it comes to dealing with his GM peers. He needs to be ousted from GM role. I'd accept a demotion, but no man with any pride would go along with that so I guess the Jays have to fire him. Then again, if there ever was a man to accept a demotion, this beta male would make a pretty good candidate.

[jaysguy44]

Ok. I've had a day or so to think about this deal.

 

Initial reaction. Didn't like it. f*** Atkins. Thought they should've gotten more for Stroman.

 

Reaction today. Don't like it... But don't hate it as much. A little disappointed as I still think they should've gotten more. Basically, to put it in Jays prospect terms, I see Kay as a Borucki calibre guy. Likely back of the rotation guy, which isn't sexy, but every team needs those guys. If everything breaks perfectly, he might be a #3 guy, but likely not. As for Woods-Richardson, he's in Pardinho territory right now, with a higher ceiling I think. So, if you told me before Stroman was dealt that we'd get back Borucki and slightly better Pardinho for him I honestly wouldn't hate it. I would've liked a Dasan Brown type thrown in as a 3rd piece, but this isn't nearly the bomb that my initial reaction believed.

 

Give me Kay over Borucki every day of the week.

 

I also like WR more than Pardinho, like you stated I prefer his upside more.

[P2F]

The apologists are trying to take over the thread again. They need to learn how to separate negotiator (a good GM's skill) from talent evaluator (an underling to the GM's skill).

 

These two pitchers may very well be good and the Jays can maximize their potential through player development, good coaching or whatever. But that does not take away from the fact that the trade is still s*****.

 

What's the point of extracting excess value out of players through good scouting, computer algos, PD etc., if you're going to overpay for the guys in the first place? You're just undoing all of that excess value. Stroman likely puts up 15+ WAR over the next five years. That's a pretty high bar already for these two guys just to breakeven on the trade, particularly since they'll probably be 0 WAR through 2020. I guess you could say Stroman wouldn't re-sign here given recent revelations, but that was Atkins' fault too. You can't destroy the value of an asset then sell low on that asset and not take blame for at least one of those events.

 

Ross Atkins may be a perfectly fine stat geek where he can pick up good players out of a draft then convince 18-21 year olds to sign relatively team-friendly bonuses, but he's a s*** negotiator when it comes to dealing with his GM peers. He needs to be ousted from GM role. I'd accept a demotion, but no man with any pride would go along with that so I guess the Jays have to fire him. Then again, if there ever was a man to accept a demotion, this beta male would make a pretty good candidate.

 

Wait, what? You're including a hypothetical extension in Stroman's current value?

 

That's not show this s*** works, Dick. You know we get the prospects and keep the money, right?

[Krylian]

The apologists are trying to take over the thread again. They need to learn how to separate negotiator (a good GM's skill) from talent evaluator (an underling to the GM's skill).

 

These two pitchers may very well be good and the Jays can maximize their potential through player development, good coaching or whatever. But that does not take away from the fact that the trade is still s*****.

 

What's the point of extracting excess value out of players through good scouting, computer algos, PD etc., if you're going to overpay for the guys in the first place? You're just undoing all of that excess value. Stroman likely puts up 15+ WAR over the next five years. That's a pretty high bar already for these two guys just to breakeven on the trade, particularly since they'll probably be 0 WAR through 2020. I guess you could say Stroman wouldn't re-sign here given recent revelations, but that was Atkins' fault too. You can't destroy the value of an asset then sell low on that asset and not take blame for at least one of those events.

 

Ross Atkins may be a perfectly fine stat geek where he can pick up good players out of a draft then convince 18-21 year olds to sign relatively team-friendly bonuses, but he's a s*** negotiator when it comes to dealing with his GM peers. He needs to be ousted from GM role. I'd accept a demotion, but no man with any pride would go along with that so I guess the Jays have to fire him. Then again, if there ever was a man to accept a demotion, this beta male would make a pretty good candidate.

 

I said I didn't like it yesterday. I said I still don't like it today. Am I an apologist because I'm not swearing and throwing a tantrum about it?