Biggio and Gurriel Jr. called up, McKinney and Urena sent down.

[tbad]

I think at the end of the day - the answer is - WHO CARES. Who cares if Drury, Gurriel and Biggio play out of position. This season is all about throwing it against the wall to see if it sticks. If we find out that 2 of those 3 are actually average defensively in the OF - then great! We have more options moving forward. If they can't - at least we find that out. As long as they get at bats and we find out if they hit, I don't think this FO gives a flying f*** where they play.

 

"Who cares" is a pretty naive statement... you really should care that they are tossing years of defensive development at a set position out the window just to try and fill a void (because of poor planning). With that said, I don't care where Gurriel plays, he sucks defensively anyway. But probably Biggio should stick at 2B if that is where he has the most value.

[Jonn]

Drury is nothing. So hopefully Biggio is playing at second base everyday. Let him play second base everyday until he proves he can't.

[Brownie19]

Biggio starting at 2B tonight. Saw it on twitter.

 

I think Drury is probably better at 2B but he's probably just a bench player moving forward. I think trying to develop Biggio there is the right move and I hope he gets the lion's share of the starts there.

 

Sogard's got a wRC+ of 55 in May. He's turned back into a pumpkin. Let's see if Montoyo has the nuts to acknowledge that and move him into a back up role. Tough to do, seeing as he's been our best hitter so far. This is going to infuriate and confuse Buck and Tabby.

[DigitalRock]

Sogard's got a wRC+ of 55 in May. He's turned back into a pumpkin. Let's see if Montoyo has the nuts to acknowledge that and move him into a back up role. Tough to do, seeing as he's been our best hitter so far. This is going to infuriate and confuse Buck and Tabby.

 

Pretty much the same as confusing a cat with a laser pointer.

[Brownie19]

"Who cares" is a pretty naive statement... you really should care that they are tossing years of defensive development at a set position out the window just to try and fill a void (because of poor planning). With that said, I don't care where Gurriel plays, he sucks defensively anyway. But probably Biggio should stick at 2B if that is where he has the most value.

 

A. you're a troll, so I'm not sure why I'm doing this.

B. there's been lots of reports the Jays staff don't believe Biggio will stick at 2nd base very long at all. I'd agree that they could give it an honest shot - as if he could stick there, that would be best for his value long term...and maybe that's what they'll do. However, I wouldn't be surprised if they float him around all over the diamond looking for the right fit.

[Olerud363]

Sogard's got a wRC+ of 55 in May. He's turned back into a pumpkin. Let's see if Montoyo has the nuts to acknowledge that and move him into a back up role. Tough to do, seeing as he's been our best hitter so far. This is going to infuriate and confuse Buck and Tabby.

 

They will still have an opportunity for the Sogard love fest every night

 

(Poor little Vladimir hits into the shift)

 

Buck - and grounded to the left side right into the shift

 

Pat - With his bat control I don't why he doesn't just guide one the other way

 

Buck - I know right. It's a free hit. They're giving it to him.

 

Pat - I'll tell you who would of slapped it the other way, the guy on the bench.

 

Buck - He might be on the bench. And as unfair as it is, I can tell you he's not complaining.

 

Pat - That's right. Such a great team mate.

[Olerud363]

They will still have an opportunity for the Sogard love fest every night

 

(Poor little Vladimir hits into the shift)

 

Buck - and grounded to the left side right into the shift

 

Pat - With his bat control I don't why he doesn't just guide one the other way

 

Buck - I know right. It's a free hit. They're giving it to him.

 

Pat - I'll tell you who would of slapped it the other way, the guy on the bench.

 

Buck - He might be on the bench. And as unfair as it is, I can tell you he's not complaining.

 

Pat - That's right. Such a great team mate.

 

Vladimir hits one 525 feet. This time it really goes off the score board, but Wilner doesn't call it that way, because he messed up the one that didn't hit the scoreboard. Buck and Pat take the opportunity to praise Sogard.

 

Buck - now that was a shot. Jays on the board 4-1 San Diego.

 

Pat - That was impressive. And to take nothing away from Vlad, but you know what Buck. It's only 1 run.

 

Buck - That's right. You cant just win on a solo homerun. No matter how far it goes. You have to manufacture some runs.

 

Pat - And the guy who does that is on the bench.

 

Buck - But I can tell you right now he's not complaining.

 

Pat - No sir. He's a great teammate. Great teammate.

[glory]

Playing Biggio out of position because "who cares" is stupid as hell. You want to develop these players as best as possible. That means playing them at their best position, or developing them in the position you want them to be in long term. Vlad might not be a great defensive player but the club clearly does not want to move him to 1B yet so play him at third. If Biggio is a 2B long term, then play him there. If he has versatility to play elsewhere, then great, but don't play him everywhere just so Drury and Sogard could get playing time. That's a ridiculous waste of a rebuilding season. If anything, play Drury and Sogard out of position. They don't matter in the long run. Biggio does.

[Spanky99]

Playing Biggio out of position because "who cares" is stupid as hell. You want to develop these players as best as possible. That means playing them at their best position, or developing them in the position you want them to be in long term. Vlad might not be a great defensive player but the club clearly does not want to move him to 1B yet so play him at third. If Biggio is a 2B long term, then play him there. If he has versatility to play elsewhere, then great, but don't play him everywhere just so Drury and Sogard could get playing time. That's a ridiculous waste of a rebuilding season. If anything, play Drury and Sogard out of position. They don't matter in the long run. Biggio does.

 

Why do you think the Org has played Biggio and Gurriel in LF, the former likely doesn't get put out there very often if at all. I'm assuming Drury and LGJ get the bulk of LF duty from here on out until there are other changes to the 25 man roster, what Brownie's saying, isn't wrong.

 

Biggio's stats and position in the AFL this past year says it all, he didn't play a single game at 2B...

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?t=t_ibp&sid=l119&cid=542&y=2018

[BlueRocky]

not to add fuel to this debate, but I’ve seen the 4 games that Cavan played RF, and in super small sample size he’s been impressively holding his own. He’s made all routine plays, two spectacular plays, and has both the arm strength and accuracy to reach third with one-hop. For an infielder just learning OF that’s pretty good. He seems to be able to track balls, he’s not slow and has fair range. Taking good routes will require more experience no question.

 

I heard Bobby on radio this morning commented that Cavan is still working at second and has a chance to be an average glove at second, which should be his long term position. He sees Biggio as a second basemen, but the org is trying to introduce young guys to multiple positions just to increase their versatility. Moving Gurriel to LF makes sense because we have better second basemen, he’s been crap everywhere and the other OF options are not that much better. We have no long term position for Gurriel so it makes sense to experiment.

 

I think stick Cavan Biggio at 2B and keep Gurriel to LF. They can rotate Grichuk, Drury, Gurriel between 3 OF positions and have Davis come in as defensive replacement.

Edited May 24, 2019 by BlueRocky

[Spanky99]

not to add fuel to this debate, but I’ve seen the 4 games that Cavan played RF, and in super small sample size he’s been impressively holding his own. He’s made all routine plays, two spectacular plays, and has both the arm strength and accuracy to reach third with one-hop. For an infielder just learning OF that’s pretty good. He seems to be able to track balls, he’s not slow and has fair range. Taking good routes will require more experience no question.

 

I’ve heard Bobby on radio this morning also commented that Cavan is still working at second and has a chance to be an average glove at second, which should be his long term position. He sees Biggio as a second basemen, but the org is trying to introduce young guys to multiple positions just to increase their versatility. Moving Gurriel to LF makes sense because we have better second basemen, he’s been crap everywhere and the other OF options are not that much better. We have no long term position for Gurriel so it makes sense to experiment.

 

I think stick Cavan Biggio at 2B and keep Gurriel to LF. They can rotate Grichuk, Drury, Gurriel between 3 OF positions and have Davis come in as defensive replacement.

 

Agreed, pretty much what I posted above your post, save for actually seeing footage of him playing out there, remember he played all his games in the OF in the AFL.

[Brownie19]

Playing Biggio out of position because "who cares" is stupid as hell. You want to develop these players as best as possible. That means playing them at their best position, or developing them in the position you want them to be in long term. Vlad might not be a great defensive player but the club clearly does not want to move him to 1B yet so play him at third. If Biggio is a 2B long term, then play him there. If he has versatility to play elsewhere, then great, but don't play him everywhere just so Drury and Sogard could get playing time. That's a ridiculous waste of a rebuilding season. If anything, play Drury and Sogard out of position. They don't matter in the long run. Biggio does.

 

Perhaps what I should have noted is that based on the reports (including where he's played this season and in the AFL), it doesn't appear the Jays think he'll stick at 2nd base very long...so play him (along with the other bench type players in Gurriel & Drury) all over the diamond and see if you can find a fit.

 

If the Jays see Biggio as a 2nd basemen (and their actions don't actually reflect their views), then yes, start him there the rest of the year and move Drury, Gurriel - even Sogard in LF/RF. Who cares.

[Carlos Danger]

This post is fascinating on multiple levels.

 

How can he be "in the middle" of a "really strong 2 week stretch"? -- Do you know what he would have hit like over the next week in the majors?

 

Are you aware that he is hitless in his last 4 games? Your post indicates that he is on a heater.

 

Who cares about 2 week sample sizes anyway?

 

His OPS was .620 after May 5th. It was .650 upon his demotion. How hot could he have been in the last couple of weeks!? It actually went from .657 on May 8 to .650 now. He was cold!

 

Grant!!!!!!!!!! Not sure I can agree with this.

 

I know you really like the smell of your own farts but McKinney is no Justin Upton. Let him go, buddy. Put him up on your shelf with Zacky Stewart.

 

It is common parlance to say a team is in the middle of a 7 game winning streak or the middle of a good run (Black Jack etc).

 

Stop being such a douche to everyone on the board., You are acting like as much as a douche on this board as whoever in your profile pic is looks like a douche. Who is that anyway?

 

Lastlly, if you keep on using my sayings, I will be demanding royalties.

 

Have a good day counselor!

[Laika]

It is common parlance to say a team is in the middle of a 7 game winning streak or the middle of a good run (Black Jack etc).

 

Stop being such a douche to everyone on the board., You are acting like as much as a douche on this board as whoever in your profile pic is looks like a douche. Who is that anyway?

 

Lastlly, if you keep on using my sayings, I will be demanding royalties.

 

Have a good day counselor!

 

Really not sure I can agree with any of this. Feel free to address the rest of my post, you dork.

[Deadpool]

Drury, Biggio, and gurriel can all do the OF better than Hernandez, for one. Probably galvis also.

 

You might be the only one with this concern.

 

Teo has some of the best defensive numbers on the team this year, FYI. I was surprised to see that as well, but he's looked a LOT better in the OF this year, and the numbers show that as well.

[Jimcanuck]

Teo has some of the best defensive numbers on the team this year, FYI. I was surprised to see that as well, but he's looked a LOT better in the OF this year, and the numbers show that as well.

 

I stand corrected then. He was awful last season, so he has evidently worked hard.

[Deadpool]

I stand corrected then. He was awful last season, so he has evidently worked hard.

 

I thought he looked better this year from the eye test, but when I was looking up Vladdy's D numbers earlier, Teo's name was up there in almost every category. Again, small sample size applies, but he's actually been good this year in LF.

[Krylian]

veteran leadership is an old wives tale.

 

A veteran wife

[Jimcanuck]

I don't think anyone is actually suggesting we keep him here because he's a vet. They are suggesting we keep him because he'll probably have no value on the trade market and thus may provide more value to this team on a 2 year extension because he's still a productive 1st baseman.

 

At least one poster suggested keeping him for 'vet leadership'.

[wk680]

not to add fuel to this debate, but I’ve seen the 4 games that Cavan played RF, and in super small sample size he’s been impressively holding his own. He’s made all routine plays, two spectacular plays, and has both the arm strength and accuracy to reach third with one-hop. For an infielder just learning OF that’s pretty good. He seems to be able to track balls, he’s not slow and has fair range. Taking good routes will require more experience no question.

 

I heard Bobby on radio this morning commented that Cavan is still working at second and has a chance to be an average glove at second, which should be his long term position. He sees Biggio as a second basemen, but the org is trying to introduce young guys to multiple positions just to increase their versatility. Moving Gurriel to LF makes sense because we have better second basemen, he’s been crap everywhere and the other OF options are not that much better. We have no long term position for Gurriel so it makes sense to experiment.

 

I think stick Cavan Biggio at 2B and keep Gurriel to LF. They can rotate Grichuk, Drury, Gurriel between 3 OF positions and have Davis come in as defensive replacement.

 

Considering the Jays have a glut of middle infield prospects and a shortage of OF prospects, why not just make the decision to move Biggio to the corner OF now, especially since he has been showing the ability to adapt to that (as you described).

 

Another important consideration is Bichette. If you move Biggio to corner OF, that opens up 2B for Bichette (seems he is still considered unlikely to be an average or better SS at the MLB level).

[Grant77]

McKinney has been with us since last season..but yeah lets make decisions based off a two weeks sample size. Not to mention the awful defense he provides.

 

The point I was trying to make is that they stuck with him through his struggles in April and then he broke out and hit really well recently, only to be sent down. If we were waiting for his slump to end then it absolutely did.

 

I think Abomination is right and it may be due to injuries.

[Spanky99]

At least one poster suggested keeping him for 'vet leadership'.

 

1 poster >>> the forum.

[Carlos Danger]

Considering the Jays have a glut of middle infield prospects and a shortage of OF prospects, why not just make the decision to move Biggio to the corner OF now, especially since he has been showing the ability to adapt to that (as you described).

 

Another important consideration is Bichette. If you move Biggio to corner OF, that opens up 2B for Bichette (seems he is still considered unlikely to be an average or better SS at the MLB level).

 

Who is still saying Bichette can’t play SS at a ML level?

 

Old stale reports IMO

[Spanky99]

Considering the Jays have a glut of middle infield prospects and a shortage of OF prospects, why not just make the decision to move Biggio to the corner OF now, especially since he has been showing the ability to adapt to that (as you described).

 

Another important consideration is Bichette. If you move Biggio to corner OF, that opens up 2B for Bichette (seems he is still considered unlikely to be an average or better SS at the MLB level).

 

No, no this is false... unless you're looking at their draft profiles.

[wk680]

Teo has some of the best defensive numbers on the team this year, FYI. I was surprised to see that as well, but he's looked a LOT better in the OF this year, and the numbers show that as well.

 

Yes in 2018 (523 PA) Hernandez had a fangraphs defensive value of -17.1 and UZR/150 of -12.2. This season in 141 PA worth of playing time he has fangraphs defensive rating of +2.2 and UZR/150 of +20.2.

 

So, if he can get his offense going again, he could still be a decent player.

[wk680]

Who is still saying Bichette can’t play SS at a ML level?

 

Old stale reports IMO

 

He can play at the MLB level but he is still considered questionable as to whether he can be a plus defender at SS.

 

Consider they alreadfy have a mediocre at best third baseman. Do you really want the whole left side of the infield to be guys who are average at best?

[Spanky99]

He can play at the MLB level but he is still considered questionable as to whether he can be a plus defender at SS.

 

Just needs to be average or a little better, and all recent reports say as much, like big strides in his D.

[wk680]

Just needs to be average or a little better, and all recent reports say as much, like big strides in his D.

 

True he is showing strides but still a question mark and we won't know until he is actually thrown into the fray.

[Spanky99]

True he is showing strides but still a question mark and we won't know until he is actually thrown into the fray.

 

Right.

[Deadpool]

Yes in 2018 (523 PA) Hernandez had a fangraphs defensive value of -17.1 and UZR/150 of -12.2. This season in 141 PA worth of playing time he has fangraphs defensive rating of +2.2 and UZR/150 of +20.2.

 

So, if he can get his offense going again, he could still be a decent player.

 

If Teo could get his bat back to last year, and keep his D from the early part of this year, he's a useful piece. I have more faith in him than in most of the other strugglers that have been written off (close call w/ Guriel.) I could still see him being a contributor.

 

I like him a hell of a lot more than McKinney.