General 2019 Blue Jays Discussion Thread

[Governator]

This is likely ********. Toronto is a world class city and there's no reason to believe that players wouldn't come here except in the case of a massive premium being paid. We haven't signed major free agents because we haven't tried to sign major free agents. It might not happen this offseason, coming off a 90-100 loss year, but there's no reason to think that a competitive Toronto team would be considered an undesirable destination by free agents.

 

Toronto isn't an undesirable destination at all.... but the tax man is, the travel through customs regularly is, the considerations of your family living in a new country is. There are definitely things that free agents must consider before singing here and since the agent gets a % I'd assume his takeaway differs after taxes as well?

[DigitalRock]

This is likely ********. Toronto is a world class city and there's no reason to believe that players wouldn't come here except in the case of a massive premium being paid. We haven't signed major free agents because we haven't tried to sign major free agents. It might not happen this offseason, coming off a 90-100 loss year, but there's no reason to think that a competitive Toronto team would be considered an undesirable destination by free agents.

 

LOl come on....many american athletes simply don't want to play in Canada and would rather sign in their own country.... There have been a plethora of examples of the jays not being able to sign players because they would rather go elsewhere or would need to overpay, plus there is the taxes issue many players hate.

[BTS]

Toronto has always been considered an undesirable place to sign by free agents, especially with american born players. We might not be bottom of the barrel and money certainly does talk, but we're going to have to pay a premium if the same money is on the table and the player is choosing between LA, the Yankees, the Sox, the Cubs and us.

 

I'm not saying our situation is different than other smaller market and mid-level market clubs. It's the inherent advantage that the big clubs have. They have more money and players want to play there. It might not be 15%, but you're delusional to think that we won't have to pay a premium like many other clubs would have to pay to get top free agents. The Padres offered Manny and they offered the most money. I'm not saying it's an impossible challenge, but it's not an easy task either. We should have a war chest of funds available. Let's see what they do.

 

Over the last 20 years outside of the guys who came through our organization we have signed Martin, BJ Ryan and Burnett. If I go back a little further we signed Roger Clemens in 1996. I mean we did get Clemens so I'm not saying it's impossible. The last time we got a top tier free agent was 23 years ago.

 

I don’t think we’ve actually tried to sign major free agents. We’ve been a big market team acting like a mid- (and often small) market team, and I think to at least some extent blaming it on free agents considering Toronto to be MLB’s Siberia.

 

With the luxury tax effectively acting like a hard cap for most teams, there’s an opportunity for a market like Toronto to get in on the top guys without competing against teams like the Cubs, Yankees, Red Sox etc... we just saw San Diego sign a guy who would have been swallowed up by NY or LA back when the tax had less teeth.

 

I think the limiting factor here is that Toronto won’t offer a major FA 200M, much more so than major FAs not being willing to come to Toronto except for a massive overpayment.

[BTS]

LOl come on....many american athletes simply don't want to play in Canada and would rather sign in their own country.... There have been a plethora of examples of the jays not being able to sign players because they would rather go elsewhere or would need to overpay, plus there is the taxes issue many players hate.

 

Have there? I remember the jays being rebuffed by Ervin Santana and Gil Meche. Nothing else comes to mind.

[Dick_Pole]

Dave Winfield, Paul Molitor, Jack Morris, Dave Stewart, Roger Clemens and probably a few other guys I'm forgetting. You could fill out an all-star team with who the Jays recruited as free agents in the early to mid-90's with a competitive team, an adept GM in Gillick and a still somewhat sober cheerleader/ambassador in Beeston. They haven't done that lately because...Ricciardi, Godfrey, Ash and drunk Beeston.

 

So f*** off with your loser self-hating Canadian mentality. Especially you Saskatchewan people who are utterly disconnected from Toronto. As far as frequent travel, come on man, these are ballplayers flying charter. Do you really think carrying the extra passport is that much of a burden? Toronto is pretty conveniently located in between all the major baseball cities too. Can't be that much worse travel wise than Minnesota, Seattle or Tampa.

 

Taxes/uprooting family, yeah I can see how that might be an issue. Especially for redneck type of players. But there has to be at least a few players, especially black or latino ones that look at Trump and the general political climate there and look at our situation up here and see a benign pretty boy (yes Trudeau sucks, but they don't know that), health care, not a mass shooting every two days that their kids have to wear bulletproof vests to their snobby private school and say "hey, maybe Canada is not so bad". It's two sides to every story, not just "awww wah wah wah Canada is a cold, s*****, tax-filled nation".

[wamco]

It’s been ownerships built in excuse for years. AA acknowledged he hadn’t made offers to big free agents.

[BTS]

It’s been ownerships built in excuse for years. AA acknowledged he hadn’t made offers to big free agents.

 

Yup. If the team had money burning a hole in its pocket that major free agents just wouldn't take, Yu Darvish would have been a Blue Jay. If they had been consistently rebuffed by players who didn't want to come here, they would have jumped at the opportunity to throw all that money at a guy who was forced by the system to go to the highest bidder for his services. But they didn't sign Darvish for the same reason that they haven't signed any other top-tier FAs: they've had no interest in spending major money on a big-time player.

[saskjayfan]

Dave Winfield, Paul Molitor, Jack Morris, Dave Stewart, Roger Clemens and probably a few other guys I'm forgetting. You could fill out an all-star team with who the Jays recruited as free agents in the early to mid-90's with a competitive team, an adept GM in Gillick and a still somewhat sober cheerleader/ambassador in Beeston. They haven't done that lately because...Ricciardi, Godfrey, Ash and drunk Beeston.

 

So f*** off with your loser self-hating Canadian mentality. Especially you Saskatchewan people who are utterly disconnected from Toronto. As far as frequent travel, come on man, these are ballplayers flying charter. Do you really think carrying the extra passport is that much of a burden? Toronto is pretty conveniently located in between all the major baseball cities too. Can't be that much worse travel wise than Minnesota, Seattle or Tampa.

 

Taxes/uprooting family, yeah I can see how that might be an issue. Especially for redneck type of players. But there has to be at least a few players, especially black or latino ones that look at Trump and the general political climate there and look at our situation up here and see a benign pretty boy (yes Trudeau sucks, but they don't know that), health care, not a mass shooting every two days that their kids have to wear bulletproof vests to their snobby private school and say "hey, maybe Canada is not so bad". It's two sides to every story, not just "awww wah wah wah Canada is a cold, s*****, tax-filled nation".

 

Yes, we Saskatchewan folks are cut off, and have no idea what Toronto is all about. We never travel. Winfield was 40 when he signed, Molitor was 36, Dave Stewart was 36, Morris was 37 and they signed with in an era where the Blue Jays had a winning culture. I'm old enough to remember 85 to 93. It was a great time.

 

Where did I say anything about frequent travel? I said we are at a disadvantage to signing some american players because it's true. I love Toronto. I think it's a great city. People like Halladay resigned here because once they got here they realized what a great city it is. You can go f*** yourself for calling me a self-hating Canadian and bashing the province I live in. I'm a proud Canadian and proud sports fan in the province of Saskachewan. We funded a brand new football stadium because the people here supported it.

 

I said money talks, but we are a team with some good young positional players to build around. We're losing a ton of games this year and we have no rotation. If you don't think we are at a disadvantage over the next couple years in the free agent market you're delusional. We don't have club on the precipice of winning, we aren't more desirable than the locations I mentioned and they have winning cultures. We can sign guys. We just have to pay a premium. That's simply reality.

 

In 4 years if we have some of our young pitching prospects turn out to be Syndergaard, Degrom and Wheeler, of course that's going to sway free agents and we will be considered a destination spot because players want to win.

 

You're so high and mighty. Who's going to be in our rotation in 2020, and 2021? Which free agents are we going to land? If you're going to talk the big talk, why don't you stick your neck out and make some predictions. I've already said we should be capable of landing a Cole, we just have to offer him a massive contract. If a team offers him 210, we go an extra year and go 240.

[Slade]

Canada is a factor for many American players whether you like it or not. Without more money or a winning team (which we don't have yet) most are going to pick an American team.

 

We haven't tried to sign anyone significant in a long time. This isn't the NBA where the elite players in the league dictate their preferences. There is so much talent especially international talent that being in a different country doesn't mean anything.

[Jimcanuck]

And when big free agents will not come here, we mega trade for them

[Ex Player]

And when big free agents will not come here, we mega trade for them

We're not even doing that though. When was the last time the Jays made a blockbuster trade??

[jerb]

 

Scott Mitchell

@ScottyMitchTSN

 

Best news possible for Ryan Borucki.

He has avoided Tommy John surgery, per source, but he did have a procedure to clean up bone spurs.

Done for the season but expected to be ready for spring.

#BlueJays

[Terminator]

We haven't tried to sign anyone significant in a long time. This isn't the NBA where the elite players in the league dictate their preferences. There is so much talent especially international talent that being in a different country doesn't mean anything.

 

I generally agree with this. You pay the most you'll probably get the player though we probably lose a lot of tiebreakers to teams.

[LGBJ29]

We're not even doing that though. When was the last time the Jays made a blockbuster trade??

 

I'm assuming you mean to acquire talent, why would they make a blockbuster in a rebuild?

[Krylian]

Borucki out for the season. Had surgery to clean up the bone spurs in his elbow. Could've been a lot worse. Edited August 9, 2019 by Krylian

[Dick_Pole]

Yes, we Saskatchewan folks are cut off, and have no idea what Toronto is all about. We never travel. Winfield was 40 when he signed, Molitor was 36, Dave Stewart was 36, Morris was 37 and they signed with in an era where the Blue Jays had a winning culture. I'm old enough to remember 85 to 93. It was a great time.

 

What does bringing up age have anything to do with my point, when we are talking about a time before computers and age-curves and before anyone played clean? At that time all of those players were highly coveted and the Jays went out and got them.

 

Where did I say anything about frequent travel?

 

You didn't. I wasn't referring to you in that part of the post. There were others who brought that border crossing issues up.

 

You're so high and mighty.

 

Yes, I am.

[saskjayfan]

What does bringing up age have anything to do with my point, when we are talking about a time before computers and age-curves and before anyone played clean? At that time all of those players were highly coveted and the Jays went out and got them.

 

 

 

You didn't. I wasn't referring to you in that part of the post. There were others who brought that border crossing issues up.

 

 

 

Yes, I am.

 

Age matters, because I remember going to games when those guys were signed. The skydome opened in 87, we lead the league in attendance and we have one of the best cultures of winning in baseball. It was a completely different era.

 

You're high and mighty, but too much of a wimp to actually stick your neck out and make any predictions. You'd rather talk bad about the people of Saskatchewan. Have you ever been to Saskatchewan? Who are we going to target in free agency or what type of players will we target. What will our rotation look like over the next couple years. Our young talent on the position side looks like it has the potential to compete, our pitching however is garbage.

[wamco]

Nope not 87

[Krylian]

Age matters, because I remember going to games when those guys were signed. The skydome opened in 87, we lead the league in attendance and we have one of the best cultures of winning in baseball. It was a completely different era.

 

You're high and mighty, but too much of a wimp to actually stick your neck out and make any predictions. You'd rather talk bad about the people of Saskatchewan. Have you ever been to Saskatchewan? Who are we going to target in free agency or what type of players will we target. What will our rotation look like over the next couple years. Our young talent on the position side looks like it has the potential to compete, our pitching however is garbage.

 

It opened in June 1989.

[saskjayfan]

It opened in June 1989.

 

yes my mistake...89....same year the Riders won the Grey Cup. I stand corrected.

[Spanky99]

Didn't see this posted... Suxxxxxxx

 

[Ex Player]

Didn't see this posted... Suxxxxxxx

 

Out for anywhere from 1 week to 1+ month: https://www.google.ca/search?as_q=Grade+1+quad+strain+healing+time&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&lr=&cr=&as_qdr=all&as_sitesearch=&as_occt=any&safe=images&as_filetype=&as_rights=

[saskjayfan]

Out for anywhere from 1 week to 1+ month: https://www.google.ca/search?as_q=Grade+1+quad+strain+healing+time&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&lr=&cr=&as_qdr=all&as_sitesearch=&as_occt=any&safe=images&as_filetype=&as_rights=

 

can we bring up Alford.

[Stangstag]

Have there? I remember the jays being rebuffed by Ervin Santana and Gil Meche. Nothing else comes to mind.

 

I remember there being some big name relief pitcher that AA tried to sign and he signed with another team. The news was that we had offered an extra year and more money overall than the team he eventually signed with. Can’t remember who it was though.

 

I think the Canada thing is a big factor though. You’re underestimating the whole American patriotism/nationalism culture

[Dick_Pole]

Age matters, because I remember going to games when those guys were signed. The skydome opened in 87, we lead the league in attendance and we have one of the best cultures of winning in baseball. It was a completely different era.

 

You're high and mighty, but too much of a wimp to actually stick your neck out and make any predictions. You'd rather talk bad about the people of Saskatchewan. Have you ever been to Saskatchewan? Who are we going to target in free agency or what type of players will we target. What will our rotation look like over the next couple years. Our young talent on the position side looks like it has the potential to compete, our pitching however is garbage.

 

Are we having the same conversation? The reason you give for age mattering has absolutely nothing to do with your argument. If anything, it supports mine. The Jays signed coveted players, and the signing of those coveted players helped pack the dome and improve the winning culture. Let me know when you start to argue FOR the idea that Toronto is not able to sign top MLB free agents and have success.

 

I never said anything bad about Saskatchewan. Just that people from there won't have a clue what Toronto is like. It's your own lack of confidence that is causing you to interpret what I said about Saskatchewan negatively. I have never been there but based on what I know, it been the most consistent economic and political performer for Canada ever since the people there smartened up and voted in Brad Wall. So it's probably an alright place to live.

 

I'm not going to stick my neck out and say what free agents the Jays will sign because that's pointless and stupid and will likely be wrong given that any random team has only a 3.3% chance of signing any random free agent. If I want to bet on something, I'll do it through my bookie and make actual cash, not score internet points or whatever in the off-chance my guess at a free agent signing happens to be right.

[Spanky99]

So the Jays rolling with 14 pitchers and a 2 man bench, lol.

 

[Jonn]

can we bring up Alford.

 

He just recently got back to playing again in AAA. We see him September would be surprised to see him sooner I guess that would depend on how long LGJ is actually out. Still would think McKinney is ahead of him on the depth chart.

[Terminator]

So the Jays rolling with 14 pitchers and a 2 man bench, lol.

 

Lol that's ridiculous

[saskjayfan]

He just recently got back to playing again in AAA. We see him September would be surprised to see him sooner I guess that would depend on how long LGJ is actually out. Still would think McKinney is ahead of him on the depth chart.

 

It wouldn't hurt to give him a look at the MLB level. He can't even get in the AAA lineup...they sat him in his third game back and he was 3 for 8 with a homer in his first 2.

[Jimcanuck]

It wouldn't hurt to give him a look at the MLB level. He can't even get in the AAA lineup...they sat him in his third game back and he was 3 for 8 with a homer in his first 2.

 

lol