General 2019 Blue Jays Discussion Thread

[L54]

I'm a risk taker, but Wheeler even gives me anxiety. You want to commit years and dollars to a guy who might spend half of it on the DL.

 

Well not sure what more a guy is supposed to do than make 29 starts last year and 22 so far this year to prove that he’s healthy.

 

Any pitcher might spend half the year on the DL. You’re healthy until you’re not, and unfortunately there’s no way to predict when you’re going to go on the DL

[THANOS]

I'd do that in heart beat for cole. I would be in on Bumgarner too if the price was right. Honestly, my entire opinion of Shatkins would change if they landed Cole. Even if they signed a Bumgarner I would soften my stance. If they sign Gibson, nothing would change.

 

With all the flexibility they have, it would be really smart to bring in Cole. Hell, his advice and evidence on the pitching tools in Houston could benefit our coaching staff and every pitcher in rotation. There's also the fact that I think he could create massive surplus value even on that contract just like Sherzer.

[z3r0s]

Its a lot easier to dream on Pearson, Manoah, or Woods Richardson developing into a #2 than a legit #1. I feel confident we can put together a back end of the rotation.

Cole makes a lot of sense here. Might be a tough sell to get him here however.

[saskjayfan]

Well not sure what more a guy is supposed to do than make 29 starts last year and 22 so far this year to prove that he’s healthy.

 

Any pitcher might spend half the year on the DL. You’re healthy until you’re not, and unfortunately there’s no way to predict when you’re going to go on the DL

 

I wouldn't be totally adverse to signing a Wheeler, but there is injury risk there. If we couldn't get Cole or Bumgarner I would take a look at one of Wheeler or Wood.

[BTS]

With all the flexibility they have, it would be really smart to bring in Cole. Hell, his advice and evidence on the pitching tools in Houston could benefit our coaching staff and every pitcher in rotation. There's also the fact that I think he could create massive surplus value even on that contract just like Sherzer.

 

A lot of the mega-contracts for legit aces have worked out well. Scherzer provided tons of surplus. Greinke was great for Arizona. Strasburg is 3 years into a 7-year deal and has provided 12.1 fWAR.

 

Getting someone like Cole, who has zero red flags, either performance or health-wise, to be the head of the rotation, makes a lot of sense.

[Bobthe4th]

How much of a premium would we have to pay Cole for him to come here and not one of the traditionally biggest payroll teams or another team with lots of payroll space? We can't offer a winning team (yet), and we aren't in America (a factor for a lot of American players). Are we really going to offer more money (possibly having to be significantly more to make the difference) than anyone else?

 

I can't see it, amazing as it would be. Would completely transform the narrative with the front office, especially if we finish the season relatively strongly with our young batting.

 

He's also from California, I think he's more likely to sign for the Padres or Angels (if they can afford him) if it's not the Yankees, Dodgers etc.

[saskjayfan]

A lot of the mega-contracts for legit aces have worked out well. Scherzer provided tons of surplus. Greinke was great for Arizona. Strasburg is 3 years into a 7-year deal and has provided 12.1 fWAR.

 

Getting someone like Cole, who has zero red flags, either performance or health-wise, to be the head of the rotation, makes a lot of sense.

 

Scherzer's a guy in 2022 that you're probably still looking at in free agency. He could still be very good at 37! If we offer cole a really good offer and he goes elsewhere so be it. I just want to at least pursue the guy.

[Bobthe4th]

Scherzer's a guy in 2022 that you're probably still looking at in free agency. He could still be very good at 37! If we offer cole a really good offer and he goes elsewhere so be it. I just want to at least pursue the guy.

 

Yeah if Atkins just signs a few cheap vets and we're not even linked to Cole that'd be deflating. I'm mean I don't think we have a realistic chance of getting him but if you can't be optimistic about the sports teams that you follow then sports are pretty pointless haha.

[Slade]

Lmao you guys actually think they are going to be in talks with Cole?

 

 

This is going to be another "We contemplated it" quote from Atkins.

[Todd Van Anus]

Cole's market value is 6 years at $172 million, right around $28 mill AAV.

[Brownie19]

Sign Wheeler. 5 years $80M

 

Would you rather have Wheeler, SWR + Kay....or Marcus Stroman?

[Brownie19]

There is still a lot of life left in Sanchez' arm, where Godley barely sits at 90 with his fastball. Sanchez still has some workable tools that needs adjustment or a bullpen assignment. Godley does have a good curve ball and although his fastball is sub par, if he can locate it consistently, he still may find success. With the blister issues Sanchez has, he needs to come to the realization that he's better off in the pen.

 

Edwin Jackson still throws 97. Life in the arm doesn't always matter.

[Abomination]

Sign Wheeler. 5 years $80M

 

Would you rather have Wheeler, SWR + Kay....or Marcus Stroman?

 

I think I'd actually prefer to have Gibson over Wheeler. I'm not convinced you'd have to give him 5 years either.

[Brownie19]

I think I'd actually prefer to have Gibson over Wheeler. I'm not convinced you'd have to give him 5 years either.

 

Why not try and sign both? Wheeler's on his way to back-to-back 4 WAR seasons. A level Stroman's never reached. I mean honestly, if we are able to sign a Wheeler or a Gibson with the money we would have extended Stro with - that would be amazing.

[Abomination]

Why not try and sign both? Wheeler's on his way to back-to-back 4 WAR seasons. A level Stroman's never reached. I mean honestly, if we are able to sign a Wheeler or a Gibson with the money we would have extended Stro with - that would be amazing.

 

I'm not opposed to that. I think if I had to choose between the two though, I'd rather Gibson.

[Ray]

Interesting comments by Shapiro. It actually leads me to believe that they might end up making a couple big moves this offseason:

 

[Frag]

Looks like I'm going to my first Jays game this season tonight. Hope they win!

[Bobthe4th]

Interesting comments by Shapiro. It actually leads me to believe that they might end up making a couple big moves this offseason:

 

The most relevant one is where he says we won't spend big until we are already 87-90 wins. Cheap vets this offseason it is then.

[THANOS]

A lot of the mega-contracts for legit aces have worked out well. Scherzer provided tons of surplus. Greinke was great for Arizona. Strasburg is 3 years into a 7-year deal and has provided 12.1 fWAR.

 

Getting someone like Cole, who has zero red flags, either performance or health-wise, to be the head of the rotation, makes a lot of sense.

 

Totally agree man. Here's a question, how much would you be willing to overpay to get him to sign here?

 

Let's say the avg projection is 7/210 for team of his choice.

 

I'd go up to 7/245 or 35AAV.

[Ray]

The most relevant one is where he says we won't spend big until we are already 87-90 wins. Cheap vets this offseason it is then.

 

We likely won’t be hitting the $160-$170M threshold until we’re firmly established as a competitive team, but I could envision starting next season with a $120M payroll. We have what, $50M in commuted salaries next season with arb raises and options picked up? That still leaves a ton of money to be spent, and I can’t imagine they spend it all on cheap vets. I could see them adding atleast 1 guy on a 3-4 year deal (i.e Wheeler or Odorizzi).

[BTS]

I've been waiting for comments like this from management for awhile now. Losing 90+ games while making absolutely no effort whatsoever to be respectable is fine for a season, but it can't happen again next year.

 

I love Mark Shapiro.

[BTS]

Totally agree man. Here's a question, how much would you be willing to overpay to get him to sign here?

 

Let's say the avg projection is 7/210 for team of his choice.

 

I'd go up to 7/245 or 35AAV.

 

I wouldn't complain if they gave that to Cole. Greinke got 6/206 four years ago. Cole is better and younger than Greinke.

[SaskJaysFan_2]

We likely won’t be hitting the $160-$170M threshold until we’re firmly established as a competitive team, but I could envision starting next season with a $120M payroll. We have what, $50M in commuted salaries next season with arb raises and options picked up? That still leaves a ton of money to be spent, and I can’t imagine they spend it all on cheap vets. I could envision them adding atleast 1 guy on a 3-4 year deal (i.e Wheeler or Odorizzi).

 

That's exactly what I was thinking. The great part is we have most, if not all, of our position players figured out. Most will be cheap for years. A couple $35M AAV for SPs would seem decadent, but it's doable. We have a payroll with arb assumptions at around $54M next year. Add $70M for two very solid pitchers, and I think we hit where the Jays are willing to go until they are around a projected 87-90 win club by the trade deadline in 2020 then you may see some crazy adds. Dunno about any of you but Shapiro talking like that means to me Rogers is starting to lean hard on winning sooner than later.

 

In terms of position players, if an awesome OF falls into our lap, I wouldn't say no. But you have to think between Fisher, Hernandez, Alford, Pompey, McKinney, etc., one of those guys will claim a full time position.

[Brownie19]

I'm not opposed to that. I think if I had to choose between the two though, I'd rather Gibson.

 

Can I ask why? He's 2 years older and never been as good as Wheeler's been the past 2 years. Or are you saying you prefer him because he'll come at a more reasonable cost/term?

[Abomination]

Can I ask why? He's 2 years older and never been as good as Wheeler's been the past 2 years. Or are you saying you prefer him because he'll come at a more reasonable cost/term?

 

Wheeler has higher WAR due to the differences in FIP, but xFIP they're 3.91, 3.63 vs 3.81, 3.74 which is really a negligible difference. I feel like Gibson will be looking more at a 3/45 deal, and Wheeler will likely get a big deal. Wheeler seems like someone who should be putting up ace-like numbers and for some reason really isn't. I don't really want to pay ace money for someone with both injury and performance risk.

[wamco]

Sign Wheeler. 5 years $80M

 

 

 

Would you rather have Wheeler, SWR + Kay....or Marcus Stroman?

 

It would be stroman and about 7m to spend for the equation

[Laika]

I've been waiting for comments like this from management for awhile now. Losing 90+ games while making absolutely no effort whatsoever to be respectable is fine for a season, but it can't happen again next year.

 

I love Mark Shapiro.

 

Wow this was not my reaction. Seems like he hedged the enthusiasm quite a bit with certain language

[DigitalRock]

Gerrit Cole is not signing here guys.

[Laika]

Gerrit Cole is not signing here guys.

 

It's crazy that people keep talking themselves into getting even mildly excited about how certain big signings / trades make sense for Toronto.

 

I guess if the Padres can sign Manny Machado, anything can happen, but...

[Slade]

Wow this was not my reaction. Seems like he hedged the enthusiasm quite a bit with certain language

 

That was my reaction too. Very specific language used.

 

Would of liked to actually hear the interview rather than these out of context tweets.