General 2019 Blue Jays Discussion Thread

[L54]

With Aaron Hicks signing the extension, the already weak OF market for next season is looking none too encouraging.

 

We have a plethora of good INF in our system for the foreseeable future, but I'm worried about our OF options for 2020 and on. Pillar is obviously not a piece going forward, but beyond that, none of McKinney, Hernandez, Pompey, Dwight Smith Jr., Jonathan Davis seem like they can be everyday OF. Alford is the only guy with every day player potential, and he still has a pretty high variance of outcomes. I'm hoping we can sign Grichuk to a reasonable extension so we have at least one guy we can count on. The farm system seems pretty barren too. The next best guy is...Chavez Young? He's still a whiles away.

 

Would love to lock Grichuk up, he should be priority one as far as I'm concerned. Next year is his last year of arbitration so if you could get two or three FA years in exchange for money now it seems like a no brainer.

 

As for the rest of those guys, none of them inspire any amount of confidence from me. McKinney could be a cheap platoon kinda guy like Seth Smith which is useful. Alford will be interesting to watch this year but hard to see him amounting to much at this point. Some of these guys on the dirt will have to move to the OF eventually if they continue to hit, just a matter of time by sifting through who can defend up the middle and who can't. It's a good problem to have since OF corners should be an easy transition for guys who are capable of playing MIF positions. Ideally the Jays package a few guys together to land a long term piece though because lots of these guys won't end up as ML regulars.

[Slade]

Let's be honest our entire outfield could be replaced. Nobody is particularly good. Even Grichuk while the best of the bunch isn't anything special.

[KevinGregg]

Let's be honest our entire outfield could be replaced. Nobody is particularly good. Even Grichuk while the best of the bunch isn't anything special.

 

Yeah our outfield is terrible we are going to need some external help there unless someone busts out in a big way

[Boxcar]

Let's be honest our entire outfield could be replaced. Nobody is particularly good. Even Grichuk while the best of the bunch isn't anything special.

 

Grichuk is pretty good and he showed some major positive signs last year. He's a good defender and he was a really, really good hitter after his early season struggles. He's probably a good bet for 3 WAR and I wouldn't be surprised if he put up a 5 WAR year. That's not easy to replace.

[Ray]

Grichuk is pretty good and he showed some major positive signs last year. He's a good defender and he was a really, really good hitter after his early season struggles. He's probably a good bet for 3 WAR and I wouldn't be surprised if he put up a 5 WAR year. That's not easy to replace.

 

That's always been the thing with Grichuk though. He flashes that type of potential, but injuries and/or slumps have always gotten in his way.

 

I don't think he'll put up 5 WAR, but he's a safe 2-3 WAR guy. Even that's not that easily to replace. I hope we lock him up soon.

[Slade]

Yeah our outfield is terrible we are going to need some external help there unless someone busts out in a big way

 

I'm sure they are hoping someone in this group just clicks and figures stuff out. I've heard Shapiro talk about how no matter how good/bad a season goes there is always someone who surprises.

 

Grichuk is pretty good and he showed some major positive signs last year. He's a good defender and he was a really, really good hitter after his early season struggles. He's probably a good bet for 3 WAR and I wouldn't be surprised if he put up a 5 WAR year. That's not easy to replace.

 

I like Grichuk but he is what he is, he's posted 4 seasons with very similar numbers. I don't know how much room for improvement there is with the bat.

[Terminator]

 

Lol Jays do him a favor by releasing him when they did and he spits in their face.

[jerb]

 

Robert Murray‏

Verified account

@ByRobertMurray

 

#BlueJays expressing interest in a number of free-agent relievers, including right-hander Adam Warren, sources tell me and @EmilyCWaldon.

[Boxcar]

That's always been the thing with Grichuk though. He flashes that type of potential, but injuries and/or slumps have always gotten in his way.

 

I don't think he'll put up 5 WAR, but he's a safe 2-3 WAR guy. Even that's not that easily to replace. I hope we lock him up soon.

 

I don't think he'll put up 5 war, I'm just saying that he has the capability to throw one up if he can hit well for extended periods and stay on the field.

[Abomination]

 

Lol Jays do him a favor by releasing him when they did and he spits in their face.

 

To be fair, we ate 37.5M AND paid 5M to "upgrade" Tulo to Freddy Galvis. If that's not an insult, I don't know what is. Tulo did mention how thankful he was to the training staff for all the hard work they put in with him.

[KevinGregg]

 

Lol Jays do him a favor by releasing him when they did and he spits in their face.

 

His previous comments on the matter seemed to show that he had a better handle on why the decision was made:

 

"I think they were kind of heading in a different direction than I wanted to go," Tulowitzki said. "They were going to go young and commit to their young players. They have some good ones over there. But for me, it was about wanting to win a world championship and play with veteran players."

 

Now he's totally singing a different tune. Should've just benched him and let him retire...

I can definitely see what Pillar was saying about "some of the older guys" having attitude issues

[Spanky99]

His previous comments on the matter seemed to show that he had a better handle on why the decision was made:

 

"I think they were kind of heading in a different direction than I wanted to go," Tulowitzki said. "They were going to go young and commit to their young players. They have some good ones over there. But for me, it was about wanting to win a world championship and play with veteran players."

 

Now he's totally singing a different tune. Should've just benched him and let him retire...

I can definitely see what Pillar was saying about "some of the older guys" having attitude issues

 

When did he say that, I missed this?

[Ray]

To be fair, we ate 37.5M AND paid 5M to "upgrade" Tulo to Freddy Galvis. If that's not an insult, I don't know what is. Tulo did mention how thankful he was to the training staff for all the hard work they put in with him.

 

Galvis is technically an upgrade in the sense that he can at least stay on the field.

[KevinGregg]

When did he say that, I missed this?

 

I am definitely reading between the lines a bit, and it's not an explicit quote, but here's what he said:

 

The 30-year-old believes his leadership style is informed not just by the positive things he’s seen, but also the ways veteran players have comported themselves in the clubhouse that he didn’t agree with.

 

“I'm not going to really get into specifics. I don't know if there are specific things for me to share with you. I think it’s just overall ways about guys, whether it's the way they talk to guys or the way they treated guys or the way they went about holding team meetings or the way they did certain things,” said Pillar.

https://www.tsn.ca/pillar-believes-jays-have-enough-veteran-leadership-1.1260108

 

Definitely seems to me like in his opinion the last group of leaders were treating people badly in some way

[Laika]

I am definitely reading between the lines a bit, and it's not an explicit quote, but here's what he said:

 

https://www.tsn.ca/pillar-believes-jays-have-enough-veteran-leadership-1.1260108

 

Definitely seems to me like in his opinion the last group of leaders were treating people badly in some way

 

I agree with you. It really seems like Pillar does not believe the last group of Blue Jays veterans were great leaders.

 

His "it's just the overall way about guys..." line really seems like a dig at their general attitudes. I mean we know that Donaldson was a douche. I could see Tulowitzki being stuck up. Bautista was Bautista. It always seemed a bit cliquey to me.

[L54]

Tulo can eat a bag of dicks. My only hope with him is that he can stay healthy enough to get DFA'd

[Terminator]

I agree with you. It really seems like Pillar does not believe the last group of Blue Jays veterans were great leaders.

 

His "it's just the overall way about guys..." line really seems like a dig at their general attitudes. I mean we know that Donaldson was a douche. I could see Tulowitzki being stuck up. Bautista was Bautista. It always seemed a bit cliquey to me.

 

Here's the overall quote:

 

“I'm not going to really get into specifics. I don't know if there are specific things for me to share with you. I think it’s just overall ways about guys, whether it's the way they talk to guys or the way they treated guys or the way they went about holding team meetings or the way they did certain things,” said Pillar.

 

Martin was the other veteran on the team. I never got a douchey vibe from him though. Bautista was Bautista but he wasn't there last year so I wonder how much he played into those comments.

 

Donaldson kind of seems like the prime suspect. I remember when he went on his "this isn't the try league, it's the get it done league" rant. Most fans loved it but as a teammate that's not something you exactly want to hear. Tulo is another prime suspect. Those two getting hurt and losing a bunch two years in a row is also going to affect how one views them as clubhouse leaders too.

 

Regardless, it doesn't seem like it was an epic meltdown in leadership from anyone, just maybe some personalities butting heads a tad after two frustrating seasons.

[saskjayfan]

Tulo can eat a bag of dicks. My only hope with him is that he can stay healthy enough to get DFA'd

 

Shapkins can eat a bag of dicks when Tulo puts up a great season and they realize they could have saved dollars and acquired assets by trading him mid season instead of letting him go.

[Terminator]

Shatkins is doing a good job but they can be hard to peg down sometimes.

 

In the Happ deal we got controllable low ceiling types. Then we turn around and flip Diaz (another low ceiling type) for an actual pitching prospect. Why they didn't try to do that with Happ I'm not exactly sure but given how the FA market is treating 1 to 2.5 WAR players I think they got the Happ deal wrong and the Diaz deal right. We basically replaced Diaz with a similarly talented player for $5 million bucks and got a pitching prospect on top of it.

 

But once we did the Diaz deal then we were basically stuck with relying on Tulo to be the starting SS. (We all thought it might be Gurriel but he's going to be a UT guy.) But how do you attract a starting SS for peanuts when you have Tulo on the team? It's hard to guarantee playing time with him there. Since he probably doesn't have much left in the tank they probably just said screw it and dumped him so it would open up a spot for someone more reliable. Because without Galvis we'd have a suspect starting SS in Gurriel and no depth. No we at least have a capable starter in Galvis, with some depth in Gurriel, before having to turn to the replacement level guys like Urena and Sogard.

[Ehjays]

 

what kills me is he says we told him he couldn't play anymore but it was him that decided to wait to have surgery in the spring, then call the big dramatic press conference for nothing.....I agree with others, I wouldn't have released him right away and called his bluff on "if I'm not the starting shortstop I will pack my bags and go home"

[Boxcar]

 

Lol Jays do him a favor by releasing him when they did and he spits in their face.

 

Lol what a douche

[Boxcar]

Shapkins can eat a bag of dicks when Tulo puts up a great season and they realize they could have saved dollars and acquired assets by trading him mid season instead of letting him go.

 

Dude, no one was ever going to give us anything for Tulo. Let it go.

[L54]

Shapkins can eat a bag of dicks when Tulo puts up a great season and they realize they could have saved dollars and acquired assets by trading him mid season instead of letting him go.

 

What would constitute a great season from Tulo? 100 games?

 

He was the one who was too good to have to earn his keep, whining that he’d pack his bags if he wasn’t handed the starting SS gig because he’s been so great since leaving Colorado. So the Jays do him a solid and give him the opportunity to sign wherever he wants. He signs somewhere flush with MIF depth and then shits all over Toronto publically, playing the victim.

 

I feel like taking your money, we should make a Tulo based bet

[Terminator]

I'm in the minority but I like McKinney and Drury. They were both buy lows. Drury was a buy low because he was battling vision problems and his launch angle sucks. His bat could be good and play at multiple positions.

 

McKinney will most likely hit RHP, I think. .366 xwoba last year against RHP. So you might get like 6 years of a OF that can hit RHP. I'm sure that has some value. I actually like acquiring a guy like that when the Vlad/Bo/Jansen timeline hits.

 

Also, I have a feeling that Shatkins evaluates defence with their own metrics or they just play to shift or something Brewers style. They've targeted bat over glove for a while now. Also, Fangraphs had Grichuk as a minus defender and I just can't believe that, so maybe Shatkins has something better for defence.

 

I think ceiling/floor is really unpredictable nowadays. There are a lot of mechanical/analytical things you can do to improve a player. I don't even know what to think about defence anymore unless the guy is like Jose Martinez or something. Corey Dickerson went from "lol DH" to gold glove OF in one year. Like wtf.

 

True. I'm applying big picture process stuff when it could simply come down to Shatkins preferring certain individual players over others. If McKinney smacks RHP like that again that'd be awesome.

[Ray]

I'm in the minority but I like McKinney and Drury. They were both buy lows. Drury was a buy low because he was battling vision problems and his launch angle sucks. His bat could be good and play at multiple positions.

 

McKinney will most likely hit RHP, I think. .366 xwoba last year against RHP. So you might get like 6 years of a OF that can hit RHP. I'm sure that has some value. I actually like acquiring a guy like that when the Vlad/Bo/Jansen timeline hits.

 

Also, I have a feeling that Shatkins evaluates defence with their own metrics or they just play to shift or something Brewers style. They've targeted bat over glove for a while now. Also, Fangraphs had Grichuk as a minus defender and I just can't believe that, so maybe Shatkins has something better for defence.

 

I think ceiling/floor is really unpredictable nowadays. There are a lot of mechanical/analytical things you can do to improve a player.

 

I also think the alternative to McKinney/Drury were lower minors arms that are very risky.

 

Speaking of, this front office' track record with acquiring minor league pitching "prospects" certainly follows a trend:

 

Thomas Pannone

Sam Gaviglio

Hector Perez

David Paulino

Jacob Waguespack

Julian Merryweather

Trent Thornton

Andrew Sopko

 

Almost all of them are in their mid 20's. Hector Perez is the youngest SP prospect we've traded for, and even he was 22. This front office hasn't traded for a single arm under the age of 20. Probably a good thing.

[glory]

I can accept Drury as a buy low. Cashman gave up better than average prospects to acquire him and when Cashman does that then it means something. He has a track record but was forced to trade Drury because of lack of roster spot.

 

But McKinney looks like a low BA platoon power bat with little defensive value (unless he’s a killer 1B). If it was Drury and some low level lottery ticket I’d probably be more ok with it.

[bones10]

f*** Tulo

[saskjayfan]

What would constitute a great season from Tulo? 100 games?

 

He was the one who was too good to have to earn his keep, whining that he’d pack his bags if he wasn’t handed the starting SS gig because he’s been so great since leaving Colorado. So the Jays do him a solid and give him the opportunity to sign wherever he wants. He signs somewhere flush with MIF depth and then shits all over Toronto publically, playing the victim.

 

I feel like taking your money, we should make a Tulo based bet

 

I said 2 months ago that Tulo was putting up a 5+ win season and that was going in the bold predictions thread. I said feel free to laugh then and feel free to laugh now. I think Tulo puts up a 3+ win season this year.

 

How exactly did Tulo s*** all over Toronto publicly?

[Olerud363]

I said 2 months ago that Tulo was putting up a 5+ win season and that was going in the bold predictions thread. I said feel free to laugh then and feel free to laugh now. I think Tulo puts up a 3+ win season this year.

 

How exactly did Tulo s*** all over Toronto publicly?

 

Nightmare

 

Troy Tulowitzki 152 games .310 33 112 5.8 WAR

 

2019-2025 Troy Tulowitziki average 154 games a season completes hall of fame career as Yankee. A true legend like no other bringing Joy to all Yankee Fans

 

Not wanting or saying that will happen... just saying if you wanted to custom design a Blue Jays nightmare that is it.

[Terminator]

 

Lol @ Donaldson liking this tweet.

 

I also just saw the home run. It was an opposite field 315 foot fly ball straight down the line that barely cleared the fence.