Billy Mckinney top comparables

[Spanky99]

No, they're major league stats, wrc+ is much better than ops+

 

That was a typo by Olerud, he meant wRC+, John's numbers aren't correct.

[Brownie19]

Teo is actually really fast. He just has no idea how to use that on the baseball field.

[John_Havok]

Are those minor league stats?? Fangraphs has their mlb (career) ops+ at 112 for Mckinney, and 109 for Teoscar.

 

No, just the stats from this season, not career, which were posted prior to the end of last night's game.

 

McKinney 112

Teoscar 107

 

I think the major differences between the two are simple. Neither are good defenders though small sample size issues exist with McKinney numbers, I didn't feel like he was a butcher out there at all, but Teo is just lost. He has no skills defensively except speed which doesn't make up for his terrible reads and routes.

 

McKinney walks more, but Teo has more power.

 

McKinney probably has the higher floor, lower ceiling and lower risk of reaching some midpoint. Teo would probably have the higher ceiling, lower floor and higher risk.

[tercet]

Please stop trying to compare them, they both are more then likely not the long-term answer in LF.

 

Teoscar has been dreadful since May 1st, and McKinney was terrible in September.

 

We are in a situation where both of them might get 300 PA next year since we are going to lose 90 games regardless in 2019, to see if maybe either of them can improve to being worthwhile long-term players (the odds of this are maybe like 10%?).

[Daniel Labude]

Alford will be starting over both of them come next September

[John_Havok]

Please stop trying to compare them, they both are more then likely not the long-term answer in LF.

 

Teoscar has been dreadful since May 1st, and McKinney was terrible in September.

 

We are in a situation where both of them might get 300 PA next year since we are going to lose 90 games regardless in 2019, to see if maybe either of them can improve to being worthwhile long-term players (the odds of this are maybe like 10%?).

 

Providing comparisons doesn't mean advocating for 1 or the other. Please upgrade your reading comprehension skill.

 

Btw, you compared them twice in your post after stating that people should stop comparing them.

 

Idiot

[Spanky99]

Providing comparisons doesn't mean advocating for 1 or the other. Please upgrade your reading comprehension skill.

 

Btw, you compared them twice in your post after stating that people should stop comparing them.

 

Idiot

 

lol

[Olerud363]

Please stop trying to compare them, they both are more then likely not the long-term answer in LF.

 

Teoscar has been dreadful since May 1st, and McKinney was terrible in September.

 

We are in a situation where both of them might get 300 PA next year since we are going to lose 90 games regardless in 2019, to see if maybe either of them can improve to being worthwhile long-term players (the odds of this are maybe like 10%?).

 

Thanks for that, good point. I should add a 7th point to my list on why they are comparable.

 

7. (New) Both started hot, but Teoscar has been dreadful since May 1st, and McKinney was terrible in September.

[Spanky99]

Thanks. I updated my list to add your well thought out point. I now have 7 bullet points on why they are comparable.

 

 

7. (New) Teoscar has been dreadful since May 1st, and McKinney was terrible in September.

 

(edit I also want to add an 8 given the points made about the superiority of wRC+ to ops)

 

8. Their career wRC+ is close with Mckinney in the lead 112 to 108, because of slightly better on base skills

 

(old points)

1. They have almost the same milb OPS. Mckinney makes more contact, better bb/k, Teoscar has more power, but they are similar

2. They have almost the same mlb OPS.

3. Neither is that fast.

4. They are both outfielders, and both are left fielders from what I've seen. Teoscar may not be good enough to be an MLB outfielder.

5. They both play for the Blue Jays.

6. They are both in their mid 20s, though Teoscar is 20 months older.

 

lol

[Spanky99]

Olerud wins!

[bones10]

Providing comparisons doesn't mean advocating for 1 or the other. Please upgrade your reading comprehension skill.

 

Btw, you compared them twice in your post after stating that people should stop comparing them.

 

Idiot

 

You're the official s*** on tercet poster now and its hilarious, keep it up.

[John_Havok]

You're the official s*** on tercet poster now and its hilarious, keep it up.

 

It's low hanging fruit at this point.

[5ToolPhenom]

Ben Revere would have been best served as a 9 hitter.... After the first inning he could be your precious guy with speed on in front of the bigger bats, but not getting more ABs than our actual best hitters.

 

The other day I was remembering how John Farrell routinely had Corey Patterson in the 2 hole hahaha

[Spanky99]

s***'s locked.

[Spanky99]

I love this killer!!!

[jays4life19]

I luve this killer!!!

 

 

Spanky. Be honest with me. Are you twerking to this song right now?

[Spanky99]

Spanky. Be honest with me. Are you twerking to this song right now?

 

Yes,

[jays4life19]

Yes,

 

hot

[Spanky99]

hot

 

Did you hear it?

[Olerud363]

I've seen a bunch of Billy Mckinney is the next Justin Upton comments.

 

I'm well aware this is a reference to Grant comparing McKinney to Upton, however is Grant just being passive aggressive because of a previous discussion on Justin Upton?? Like I kind of remember Grant dissing Upton in the past, and now this is his way to show us all that Upton isn't that great, Upton is at about the level of a 15th rated prospect.

 

Why else would you compare a 15th rated, 23 year old, left handed outfielder, without great speed, to a guy who was a teenage sensation, number 1 overall prospect, is headed for a 50 WAR career?? Upton is a guy who will have 50 WAR, and we're all dissapointed, because he was so athletic and highly rated.

 

McKinney is a guy who if he pulls of 15 WAR it would be amazing.

 

I spent 20 minutes looking for the best McKinney comparables. I wanted to be fair and come up with a top end, middle range, and lower range comparables. I wanted to compare him to left handed batters, as it will effect his playing time (guys like McKinney are often platooned and became 120 game guys). I wanted to compare him to guys who began at the same age (23-25).

 

I came up with Bobby Higginson (high end 23 career WAR), Jacque Jones (14 WAR), and Fred Lewis (4 WAR).

 

Why again are we comparing McKinney to Upton??

 

Since everyone is bringing up old stuff again here it is....

 

I was completely wrong on Billy Mckinney. I tried to be fair to him but it looks like he won't even reach the Fred Lewis (low end) comparable. The funny thing was I was just trying to be fair to Grant, but at the same time point out how silly the Justin Upton comparison was. In the end (at least with the Jays) McKinney came no where near even the low end projection I was thinking.

 

Lesson: If you are trying to find a comparable to a mediocre prospect make sure you choose a guy who has 0 career WAR and didn't do s***, that's what most often happens.

[Grant77]

I'm sorry that his projections were similar to Upton, but glad that it somehow made another board meme.

[Laika]

his projections were similar to Upton

 

Grant

[Boxcar]

Grant

 

It's absolutely incredible

[Olerud363]

It's absolutely incredible

 

I know. It is not smart to do this and I don't gain from it, nobody gains from it.. but still

 

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2019-zips-projections-toronto-blue-jays/

 

I won't look them all up but based on 2018 data, Zips projected McKinney to hit .228 .295 .400 or so. His top comparable was not Justin Upton

 

It was Matt Browser. Who?? Some guy who never appeared in the majors apparently https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=bowser001mat

 

Can't see there is any evidence projection systems ever thought McKinney was Justin Upton.

[BTS]

I know. It is not smart to do this and I don't gain from it, nobody gains from it.. but still

 

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2019-zips-projections-toronto-blue-jays/

 

I won't look them all up but based on 2018 data, Zips projected McKinney to hit .228 .295 .400 or so. His top comparable was not Justin Upton

 

It was Matt Browser. Who?? Some guy who never appeared in the majors apparently https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=bowser001mat

 

Can't see there is any evidence projection systems ever thought McKinney was Justin Upton

 

I kind of think what happened is that Grant saw that McKinney's ZiPS projections were similar to Melvin Upton's, and then just ran with it instead of admitting he made an inconsequential mistake.

[Olerud363]

Grant's projected reply - "I don't know what your obsession is. The projection system was down on McKinney after 2018, but before that they were much higher. Try again."

 

OK

 

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2018-zips-projections-new-york-yankees/

 

After 2017 the zips projection system thought he would hit .239 .300 .390 or so.

 

The projection systems don't usually differ by much, so can't see that any of them projected McKinney to be Justin Upton.

[Boxcar]

I like how you guys are arguing with future Grant. It's like BJMB Minority Report.

[The Iceman]

What are your thoughts?

 

Most valuable player long term between

Alford, McKinney, Fisher

or none

[Olerud363]

What are your thoughts?

 

Most valuable player long term between

Alford, McKinney, Fisher

or none

 

I honestly have no clue.

 

I am curious is there was ever a point where all of those three and Gurriel, Biggio, and Hernandez would of been ranked around the same.

 

In Retrospect it's obvious -- Gurriel was from a Cuban legacy and obviously had the genetics, the attitude the "stuff" even though his minor league numbers and first season were mediocre.

 

Hernandez may have looked like Fisher in the minors, Hernandez may also of had trouble in the outfield at many times, but the grade 70 power and good attitude was always apparent.

 

Some say Biggio couldn't hit the fastball, and the strike out rate at New Hamphire could never play in the Majors, but obvious in retrospect he had the eye of an eagle that everyone should of recognized.

 

Interested in the process of finding players. Do you just have to randomly take 6 b prospects, sort through them and half will work out??

 

Or can they be identified earlier. I think it is the former.

[Olerud363]

I kind of think what happened is that Grant saw that McKinney's ZiPS projections were similar to Melvin Upton's, and then just ran with it instead of admitting he made an inconsequential mistake.

 

I forgot that Melvin existed.

 

Melvin. Why could you not hit just a little in late 2016 ?

 

Grant may even of forgot that B.J. changed his name to Melvin not Justin, so it is totally understandable why he made that mistake.