Would calling Vladdy up be a bad idea?

[Boxcar]

Vlad would have to be put on the 40 man to be a Sept call up so his option clock would start earlier (which would mean something if he were to start the following year in the minors). The point others are making is if the Jays don't call him up now then there's no sense calling him up in September either since it wouldn't add any additional years of control. What they are missing is that calling him up after a month in AA for a 2nd wild card run (which the Jays could realistically win without him) is stupid. Calling him up in September with the intention of having him take over 3B full time in 2019, which it wouldn't be my first choice, would at least have some logic behind it.

 

So he mashes in sept (he likely will), mashes in Spring (likely will) and then they need to keep him in the minors for nearly two months while we use a bench player at third. What is the team's justification for this? How do you think Vlad would take this? He's stated he wants to make the majors prior to his 20th birthday and he's doing everything to deserve that. So not only will the team just ignore the fact that he's destroying the minors, but they will seriously piss him off by openly manipulating his ST. Do you not think the player's perception of the org is important? His dad made quite a bit of money in his day, it's possible money will matter less to Vlad than maybe some other players.

[glory]

So he mashes in sept (he likely will), mashes in Spring (likely will) and then they need to keep him in the minors for nearly two months while we use a bench player at third. What is the team's justification for this? How do you think Vlad would take this? He's stated he wants to make the majors prior to his 20th birthday and he's doing everything to deserve that. So not only will the team just ignore the fact that he's destroying the minors, but they will seriously piss him off by openly manipulating his ST. Do you not think the player's perception of the org is important? His dad made quite a bit of money in his day, it's possible money will matter less to Vlad than maybe some other players.

 

When the Jays call him up, I don't think he's going back down. In other words, if they call him up in Sept, it's probably to prep him to start at 3b from opening day 2019 onwards. But by Sept, he would have had AA and AAA experience at 3b everyday, rather than a month in AA and then thrust into the bigs to DH most nights.

 

The service time issue is only relevant if they are open to keeping him down until May of next year. Like I said, that would be my choice. It's unfair to the player but top orgs are doing the same thing so you either adapt or die. However, I don't think they will keep Vlad from the bigs for that long. So Sept + 2019 starting gig avoids super 2 issues and gives him enough minor league AB's to justify the call up.

[Brownie19]

So he mashes in sept (he likely will), mashes in Spring (likely will) and then they need to keep him in the minors for nearly two months while we use a bench player at third. What is the team's justification for this? How do you think Vlad would take this? He's stated he wants to make the majors prior to his 20th birthday and he's doing everything to deserve that. So not only will the team just ignore the fact that he's destroying the minors, but they will seriously piss him off by openly manipulating his ST. Do you not think the player's perception of the org is important? His dad made quite a bit of money in his day, it's possible money will matter less to Vlad than maybe some other players.

 

I hear you, but to play devils advocate, players need to realize this is a business. Is Kris Bryant pissed at the Cubs and looking to leave ASAP? Maybe Vlad should go speak to his trusted Union Rep. They were part of the collective bargaining process that resulted in the current rules.

[Boxcar]

I hear you, but to play devils advocate, players need to realize this is a business. Is Kris Bryant pissed at the Cubs and looking to leave ASAP? Maybe Vlad should go speak to his trusted Union Rep. They were part of the collective bargaining process that resulted in the current rules.

 

He's not part of the union atm.

[Brownie19]

He's not part of the union atm.

 

you're owning me today boxy.

 

I guess he can just suck it up and wait his turn then

[Terminator]

So he mashes in sept (he likely will), mashes in Spring (likely will) and then they need to keep him in the minors for nearly two months while we use a bench player at third. What is the team's justification for this? How do you think Vlad would take this? He's stated he wants to make the majors prior to his 20th birthday and he's doing everything to deserve that. So not only will the team just ignore the fact that he's destroying the minors, but they will seriously piss him off by openly manipulating his ST. Do you not think the player's perception of the org is important? His dad made quite a bit of money in his day, it's possible money will matter less to Vlad than maybe some other players.

 

It's not ideal to piss him off but in the end it won't matter much. 6 years from now that's not going to make him more or less likely to resign IMO.

[BTS]

It's not ideal to piss him off but in the end it won't matter much. 6 years from now that's not going to make him more or less likely to resign IMO.

 

It's more just an embarrassing look for the team. In this situation he's called up for September even though the team his committed to pushing his service time back, and then mashes in September. The team then holds him down in April and most of May in 2019. This is more egregious service time manipulation than either Bryant or Acuna faced, because not only has he displayed an ability to hit MLB pitching, but they're holding him back a month longer than usual in 2019.

 

IF they're committed to pushing his service time back by a year, I don't think they can justify a September call up. It has to be mid-April 2019 for his debut.

[Terminator]

It's more just an embarrassing look for the team. In this situation he's called up for September even though the team his committed to pushing his service time back, and then mashes in September. The team then holds him down in April and most of May in 2019. This is more egregious service time manipulation than either Bryant or Acuna faced, because not only has he displayed an ability to hit MLB pitching, but they're holding him back a month longer than usual in 2019.

 

IF they're committed to pushing his service time back by a year, I don't think they can justify a September call up. It has to be mid-April 2019 for his debut.

 

The embarrassment doesn't matter either. The team can just lie and say he needs more development on his defense. Everyone will know it's ******** but no one can do anything about it. I think I would do mid-April 2019 to debut him over September though. A cup of coffee in September wouldn't kill me either.

[burlingtonbandit]

I guess the benefit to calling him up in September would be if they were in a playoff race and if they did make the postseason you would have him there for that as well.

[BTS]

The embarrassment doesn't matter either. The team can just lie and say he needs more development on his defense. Everyone will know it's ******** but no one can do anything about it. I think I would do mid-April 2019 to debut him over September though. A cup of coffee in September wouldn't kill me either.

 

It might matter in the standings though. If the team is out of it in September, using a month of service time then and not in April-May might be transferring a win from 2019 to 2018.

 

We've seen guys like Harper, Machado, Acuna, and Bellinger hit the ground running - Vlad could very well be an impact player of that caliber immediately, and having that out of the lineup for an extra month of 2019 could hurt.

Edited May 7, 2018 by BTS

[BillSupra]

Call him up!

[Dr. Dinger]

I get it. But in that case, why the f*** would you call him up in September?

 

Because if the team is good enough to compete for a wildcard without him then we can take advantage of the extra roster flexibility, use Vlad for September and the playoffs, then supress his ST next spring long enough to get the extra year. I don't care about Super 2, but by god we aren't burning that year.

[Terminator]

I don't care about Super 2, but by god we aren't burning that year.

 

I don't think we'll burn that year either. A year of his prime is worth so much money it's kind of hard to fathom. We are talking north of $50 million. It'd be really hard to forego that just to gain a slight improvement at DH in 2018.

[Dick_Pole]

The embarrassment doesn't matter either. The team can just lie and say he needs more development on his defense. Everyone will know it's ******** but no one can do anything about it. I think I would do mid-April 2019 to debut him over September though. A cup of coffee in September wouldn't kill me either.

 

Or the team could just avoid all this nonsense and call him up NOW. If he mashes, he stays, and he has the same amount of control as with this very obvious manipulation, except pushed a year ahead. If he sucks, he gets sent back down for a year of perfectly excusable AAA seasoning.

[Dick_Pole]

I don't think we'll burn that year either. A year of his prime is worth so much money it's kind of hard to fathom. We are talking north of $50 million. It'd be really hard to forego that just to gain a slight improvement at DH in 2018.

 

Yeah but the present value on that $50M in 2024-25 might be worth less than that slight improvement in DH in 2018 if the Jays have a reasonable chance to compete. Including increased ticket sales and potentially some roster flexibility like being able to trade or not sign JD with less of a fan/ownership backlash because of the new kid in town. Plus all the "soft" benefits of an improved brand by treating a player according to merit instead of gaming the system. I happen to think there is something of value to that, even though others disagree with me.

[Terminator]

Or the team could just avoid all this nonsense and call him up NOW. If he mashes, he stays, and he has the same amount of control as with this very obvious manipulation, except pushed a year ahead. If he sucks, he gets sent back down for a year of perfectly excusable AAA seasoning.

 

Or the 3rd and most likely option in which he hits pretty well but doesn't mash and provides little to nothing with his glove. Congrats, we just lost a year of Vlad for 1 WAR.

[Dick_Pole]

Or the 3rd and most likely option in which he hits pretty well but doesn't mash and provides little to nothing with his glove. Congrats, we just lost a year of Vlad for 1 WAR.

 

Why the hell are you arguing so hard for the anti-call-him-up group anyways? Aren't you like 75 years old? Good chance you don't live to see 2025 anyways so you should be pulling for him to be up ASAP.

[BTS]

Or the 3rd and most likely option in which he hits pretty well but doesn't mash and provides little to nothing with his glove. Congrats, we just lost a year of Vlad for 1 WAR.

 

It's all moot anyway. If Vlad is great, there's no way the org lets him walk at 26 years old

[jaysguy44]

Why the hell are you arguing so hard for the anti-call-him-up group anyways? Aren't you like 75 years old? Good chance you don't live to see 2025 anyways so you should be pulling for him to be up ASAP.

 

There it is

[Terminator]

Why the hell are you arguing so hard for the anti-call-him-up group anyways? Aren't you like 75 years old? Good chance you don't live to see 2025 anyways so you should be pulling for him to be up ASAP.

 

Because I like to go online and get into pointless armchair GM arguments about what I think is best.

 

And I'm only 34 but you're right, I might not live to see 2025 anyway if I keep drinking like I did this weekend.

[Jonn]

I am going to stick with what I said about this subject before. If we are competitive I think will see him in August maybe even July after the Futures Game. I absolutely think if healthy he will be up in September no matter what though.

[Terminator]

It's all moot anyway. If Vlad is great, there's no way the org lets him walk at 26 years old

 

Losing a year of control isn't moot! Nearly every team does this s*** with their top prospects. I think I'm beating a dead horse at this point but it will be interesting to see what happens. Sounds like from that article that he's at least going to be spending some time at AAA.

[Jonn]

Losing a year of control isn't moot! Nearly every team does this s*** with their top prospects. I think I'm beating a dead horse at this point but it will be interesting to see what happens. Sounds like from that article that he's at least going to be spending some time at AAA.

 

They can get away with it now because hes only been in AA for over a month and they have already pushed him along in the system aggressively so its a good look. But anyone thinks if he continues to destroy Baseballs like this and not call him up until May or June next year without serious backlash they have another thing coming.

 

The best way to retain Vlad would be keeping him and his agent as happy as possible.

[Dr. Dinger]

It's all moot anyway. If Vlad is great, there's no way the org lets him walk at 26 years old

 

Oh damn, I forgot teams can force players to sign extensions against their will.

[Dr. Dinger]

Losing a year of control isn't moot! Nearly every team does this s*** with their top prospects. I think I'm beating a dead horse at this point but it will be interesting to see what happens. Sounds like from that article that he's at least going to be spending some time at AAA.

 

And not having him for the first month (or two) of 2019 isn't that big of a deal, it will likely be the least competitive season of the entire Vlad era.

[glory]

And not having him for the first month (or two) of 2019 isn't that big of a deal, it will likely be the least competitive season of the entire Vlad era.

 

I'm hoping Shapiro can find a way to hold off until then. There will be public pressure and possibly ownership involvement to call him up sooner (Rogers may not know baseball but when they see ticket sales plummet next winter they might want the team to do something stupid).

 

If the Yankees are holding Torres back to gain an extra year (THE YANKEES!), then do the same for Vlad. Don't care about the optics. The moment he hits the open market he can go anywhere he wants to, and the Jays have to maximize every year they have with him. If he signs a 10 year extension, then all bets are off. Call him up tomorrow in that case.

[Shart]

I don't even understand why this discussion is occurring. Zero chance he is brought up this season.

[el diego]

One thing to potentially think about if you're Atkins/Shapiro is, do you think it's worth it to think 6 years down the line at this moment? How much do the powers that be care about that? It's easy to think about that if you're a die hard, life long fan but if your job requires results (both on and off the field) then you're not putting as much weight into that final year of arbitration ability as a hardcore fan is.

[jaysguy44]

I don't even understand why this discussion is occurring. Zero chance he is brought up this season.

 

I'd bet that you're wrong

[King]

 

Vlad homers tonight