Would calling Vladdy up be a bad idea?

[Boxcar]

Brian Cashman, one of the smartest GM's in the game, did the EXACT opposite of what you are suggesting the Jays do when he was in a similar position (a WC at best team with ~82-85 win projection). He had a hole at 2B this season, a year which they plan on winning a WS, and still waited a month to call up Torres. ANd he's the GM of the f'n Yankees, who should have no issues paying their talent, while we are the Blue Jays, a team owned by a corporate entity who could decide to slash payroll in a heartbeat if they wanted to.

 

I have no problem following Cashman's lead, and I hope Shapiro doesn't value a 2nd WC berth (one extra game on the road against Severino or Sale) to be worth messing up potentially millions upon millions $ of value down the road.

 

So, again, I ask: are the Yankees or Red Sox going to drop off next year? If not, by your logic, isn't bringing up Vlad next year also a waste? What about the year after? So just keep him down until the Yankees and Red Sox aren't as good anymore in 5-10 years?

[Brownie19]

This thread is AIDS.

 

I'm just going to go ahead and bump this up again...

[G-Snarls]

He's being facetious, mate.

 

BTS being facetious? Well I never.... LOL

[glory]

So, again, I ask: are the Yankees or Red Sox going to drop off next year? If not, by your logic, isn't bringing up Vlad next year also a waste? What about the year after? So just keep him down until the Yankees and Red Sox aren't as good anymore in 5-10 years?

 

By next year Vlad would have already had experience in AA and AAA (assuming they keep him down all year or until Sept this year). Right now he has a month of AA under his belt. By the start of next season he will have ravaged through the upper minors over a full season already. Totally different scenario.

 

No one is saying not to call him up in 2019. He's too good and it won't look right (optics) to hold him back until May 2019 when we will be running out Travis, Tulo, Diaz, Solarte, etc, in the infield next year. He should be starting 3b in 2019. But calling him up after a month in AA for a better shot at a 2nd wild card in 2018? When they are having enough problems finding playing time for their existing talent when everyone is healthy? Pass.

 

Do what the Yankees did with Judge/Sanchez. If the Jays sell at the deadline (i.e. move JD), then consider calling Vlad up then to play 3b for a month or two so he has big league reps before 2019. If the Jays are in it, then chances are they won't be moving anyone from the big league roster, so the log jam that currently exists will still be there. In that case, save whatever days you can from his service clock and buy some vets at the deadline as upgrades. Or if by Aug/Sept he looks like a clear upgrade then call him up then. But now is way too soon.

[Brownie19]

By next year Vlad would have already had experience in AA and AAA (assuming they keep him down all year or until Sept this year). Right now he has a month of AA under his belt. By the start of next season he will have ravaged through the upper minors over a full season already. Totally different scenario.

 

No one is saying not to call him up in 2019. He's too good and it won't look right (optics) to hold him back until May 2019 when we will be running out Travis, Tulo, Diaz, Solarte, etc, in the infield next year. He should be starting 3b in 2019. But calling him up after a month in AA for a better shot at a 2nd wild card in 2018? When they are having enough problems finding playing time for their existing talent when everyone is healthy? Pass.

 

Do what the Yankees did with Judge/Sanchez. If the Jays sell at the deadline (i.e. move JD), then consider calling Vlad up then to play 3b for a month or two so he has big league reps before 2019. If the Jays are in it, then chances are they won't be moving anyone from the big league roster, so the log jam that currently exists will still be there. In that case, save whatever days you can from his service clock and buy some vets at the deadline as upgrades. Or if by Aug/Sept he looks like a clear upgrade then call him up then. But now is way too soon.

 

If you're not pulling him up this year and plan on starting him at 3rd next year, then you're following the Trout, Bryant, Acuna template and leaving him in the minors until late April 2019.

[glory]

If you're not pulling him up this year and plan on starting him at 3rd next year, then you're following the Trout, Bryant, Acuna template and leaving him in the minors until late April 2019.

 

Honestly I am ok with that if it happens. I'd actually prefer it. One extra year of Vlad in his mid-20's would have insane value.

 

I just don't think it will happen. He's too good and Rogers cares too much about optics and marketing. Lose JD, hype up Vlad for off season ticket sales. That's the way they operate.

[Boxcar]

By next year Vlad would have already had experience in AA and AAA (assuming they keep him down all year or until Sept this year). Right now he has a month of AA under his belt. By the start of next season he will have ravaged through the upper minors over a full season already. Totally different scenario.

 

No one is saying not to call him up in 2019. He's too good and it won't look right (optics) to hold him back until May 2019 when we will be running out Travis, Tulo, Diaz, Solarte, etc, in the infield next year. He should be starting 3b in 2019. But calling him up after a month in AA for a better shot at a 2nd wild card in 2018? When they are having enough problems finding playing time for their existing talent when everyone is healthy? Pass.

 

Do what the Yankees did with Judge/Sanchez. If the Jays sell at the deadline (i.e. move JD), then consider calling Vlad up then to play 3b for a month or two so he has big league reps before 2019. If the Jays are in it, then chances are they won't be moving anyone from the big league roster, so the log jam that currently exists will still be there. In that case, save whatever days you can from his service clock and buy some vets at the deadline as upgrades. Or if by Aug/Sept he looks like a clear upgrade then call him up then. But now is way too soon.

 

If he's the starting 3B in 2019, we lose that extra year lol. At this point, I have no idea what your position is. First, it was "don't try to make the wild card because we'd just face Severino/Sale" (which would be the same case next year) then it's "wasting millions by bringing up Vlad now" when your suggestion would result in him being granted FA at the same time. What are you even arguing?

[BTS]

Brian Cashman, one of the smartest GM's in the game, did the EXACT opposite of what you are suggesting the Jays do when he was in a similar position (a WC at best team with ~82-85 win projection). He had a hole at 2B this season, a year which they plan on winning a WS, and still waited a month to call up Torres. ANd he's the GM of the f'n Yankees, who should have no issues paying their talent, while we are the Blue Jays, a team owned by a corporate entity who could decide to slash payroll in a heartbeat if they wanted to.

 

I have no problem following Cashman's lead, and I hope Shapiro doesn't value a 2nd WC berth (one extra game on the road against Severino or Sale) to be worth messing up potentially millions upon millions $ of value down the road.

 

I don't think there was really reason to believe that 2017 Torres was an upgrade on Castro, Gregorius, or Headley/Frazier.

[BTS]

If he's the starting 3B in 2019, we lose that extra year lol. At this point, I have no idea what your position is. First, it was "don't try to make the wild card because we'd just face Severino/Sale" (which would be the same case next year) then it's "wasting millions by bringing up Vlad now" when your suggestion would result in him being granted FA at the same time. What are you even arguing?

 

I can't for the life of me understand the 'call him up in September' crowd.

 

If he succeeds, which he probably would, because he's awesome, the team is left with two choices to start 2019:

 

1) He makes the team to start 2019. The team loses the year of service time they ostensibly tried to gain by letting him annihilate the upper minors for almost all of 2018 while the team was in a wild card battle and rostering Kendrys Morales.

 

2) They leave him down until late May to gain the service time. They rightfully get crucified by the fans and media for it.

 

If Vlad keeps mashing I'll be legit pissed if he's held down all year and called up in September.

[Dr. Dinger]

I'm surprised at the number of intelligent posters here who are advocating calling him to the effect of maybe a 1 win upgrade, thereby sacrificing a whole year of control in his prime. The Jays had a surprising start to the season and are now looking like the .500 team that we thought they were. We'll see Vlad in September, everyone needs to calm down and accept that this is not going to be a championship contention year.

[Dr. Dinger]

I can't for the life of me understand the 'call him up in September' crowd.

 

If he succeeds, which he probably would, because he's awesome, the team is left with two choices to start 2019:

 

1) He makes the team to start 2019. The team loses the year of service time they ostensibly tried to gain by letting him annihilate the upper minors for almost all of 2018 while the team was in a wild card battle and rostering Kendrys Morales.

 

2) They leave him down until late May to gain the service time. They rightfully get crucified by the fans and media for it.

 

If Vlad keeps mashing I'll be legit pissed if he's held down all year and called up in September.

 

I'm all for deep-sixing Morales, but I don't agree that Vlad is going to provide enough value over and above the likes of Alford to make this worthwhile. Vlad alone doesn't take this team to 95 wins. This guy is our franchise cornerstone, there's no sense in burning a year of control for the sake of the 2018 season. There is no path to this 2018 team winning a World Series with or without Vlad.

[BTS]

I'm all for deep-sixing Morales, but I don't agree that Vlad is going to provide enough value over and above the likes of Alford to make this worthwhile. Vlad alone doesn't take this team to 95 wins. This guy is our franchise cornerstone, there's no sense in burning a year of control for the sake of the 2018 season. There is no path to this 2018 team winning a World Series with or without Vlad.

 

I get it. But in that case, why the f*** would you call him up in September?

[glory]

If he's the starting 3B in 2019, we lose that extra year lol. At this point, I have no idea what your position is. First, it was "don't try to make the wild card because we'd just face Severino/Sale" (which would be the same case next year) then it's "wasting millions by bringing up Vlad now" when your suggestion would result in him being granted FA at the same time. What are you even arguing?

 

What I want to happen: call him up May 2019 and get the extra year of control.

 

What I am okay with happening: September call up/start in 2019 (only because what I want to happen probably isn't realistic with this ownership group).

 

What I don't want to happen: What you are suggesting.

 

If I was convinced that Rogers would stay away from baseball decisions and Vlad could stay in the minors until next year at this time, I'd be all for it. Since I don't think that will happen, and they will need to sell tickets for 2019, I'm going with the compromise of calling him up in Sept preparing for starting him in 2019. Calling him up now is insane.

[Boxcar]

I'm surprised at the number of intelligent posters here who are advocating calling him to the effect of maybe a 1 win upgrade, thereby sacrificing a whole year of control in his prime. The Jays had a surprising start to the season and are now looking like the .500 team that we thought they were. We'll see Vlad in September, everyone needs to calm down and accept that this is not going to be a championship contention year.

 

If they aren't bringing him up now for a chance at being competitive, then I'd rather he didn't play in September. I don't understand how the people so concerned about service time want Vlad to be a September call up when the Jays are out of it. Just doesn't compute.

[Boxcar]

I can't for the life of me understand the 'call him up in September' crowd.

 

If he succeeds, which he probably would, because he's awesome, the team is left with two choices to start 2019:

 

1) He makes the team to start 2019. The team loses the year of service time they ostensibly tried to gain by letting him annihilate the upper minors for almost all of 2018 while the team was in a wild card battle and rostering Kendrys Morales.

 

2) They leave him down until late May to gain the service time. They rightfully get crucified by the fans and media for it.

 

If Vlad keeps mashing I'll be legit pissed if he's held down all year and called up in September.

 

Ok, so I'm not completely crazy. I might seem like a dickhead in this thread because I can honestly not understand the logic being employed here for the life of me.

 

I don't think there was really reason to believe that 2017 Torres was an upgrade on Castro, Gregorius, or Headley/Frazier.

 

There's also the case of Bird getting injured, Drury getting injured and Neil Walker (the guy they signed to play 2B) playing like poop.

 

This wasn't some masterful tactic by Cashman, Torres is up by necessity and I'd guess he probably won't be up all year.

[glory]

I don't think there was really reason to believe that 2017 Torres was an upgrade on Castro, Gregorius, or Headley/Frazier.

 

Torres could have started at 2B to begin 2018. Instead they signed Neil Walker. Then when injuries hit they still waited to call Torres up. I realize he was hurt in 2017, but he was ready to go in 2018. They could have easily put him at 2b with Andujar at 3b but decided to go with vets at both spots instead. Injuries changed the timeline.

[Caper]

I'm all for deep-sixing Morales, but I don't agree that Vlad is going to provide enough value over and above the likes of Alford to make this worthwhile. Vlad alone doesn't take this team to 95 wins. This guy is our franchise cornerstone, there's no sense in burning a year of control for the sake of the 2018 season. There is no path to this 2018 team winning a World Series with or without Vlad.

 

This isn't basketball. You get the 2nd wild card you can win the world series.

[Dick_Pole]

To me it should be a very simple decision point.

 

Bring him up. If he rakes, he stays and helps the Jays compete. If he sucks, or contributes marginally, or there is evidence that he needs some fine tuning in AAA, send him down and then management can say they gave him a legitimate shot and manipulate service time thereafter if that's the end goal.

 

There is really a no-lose situation to bringing him up now. A trial month of May versus September makes no difference with the exception that the Jays have a chance to compete now.

[Brownie19]

If they aren't bringing him up now for a chance at being competitive, then I'd rather he didn't play in September. I don't understand how the people so concerned about service time want Vlad to be a September call up when the Jays are out of it. Just doesn't compute.

 

What is the harm in bringing him up for a cup of coffee in September if we're out of the race? I thought that didn't affect his options or years of control.

[Terminator]

What is the harm in bringing him up for a cup of coffee in September if we're out of the race? I thought that didn't affect his options or years of control.

 

September does count toward service time.

[Bobthe4th]

I get it. But in that case, why the f*** would you call him up in September?

 

Again, to prepare him for being the starting 3B in 2019.

 

Again, this theory relies on believing them when they say he’s not up right now because he needs more time in the minors, and not solely for service time reasons.

[burlingtonbandit]

What I want to happen: call him up May 2019 and get the extra year of control.

 

What I am okay with happening: September call up/start in 2019 (only because what I want to happen probably isn't realistic with this ownership group).

 

What I don't want to happen: What you are suggesting.

 

If I was convinced that Rogers would stay away from baseball decisions and Vlad could stay in the minors until next year at this time, I'd be all for it. Since I don't think that will happen, and they will need to sell tickets for 2019, I'm going with the compromise of calling him up in Sept preparing for starting him in 2019. Calling him up now is insane.

 

Ownership really has no say in calling up or down players. Especially since its a corp. compared to a single owner. I bet you the executive board at Rogers barely has an idea who the Jays prospects are.

[MusicaEsLivida]

Smoak / donaldson / vlad combo at ... Dh / 1b / 3b ... Allowing you to keep there bats in the line up almost everyday

 

so where would he play? Dh?

 

Donaldson is in his final year he isn't going to want to dh and reduce his value ? Smoak is the staple at 1st

[G-Snarls]

Smoak / donaldson / vlad combo at ... Dh / 1b / 3b ... Allowing you to keep there bats in the line up almost everyday

 

Most don't feel Vlad will stick at 3B anyway

 

If you do move him this year to LF or 1B he could play in the Dominican winter league this off season just to work on his defense at a new position

[Boxcar]

What is the harm in bringing him up for a cup of coffee in September if we're out of the race? I thought that didn't affect his options or years of control.

 

Is that what it is? People think September doesn't count towards service time?

 

I'm not trying to be condescending but if this is the belief held in this thread, than a lot of it makes much more sense. So, in that case, if someone didn't know that September isn't just a free tryout period, does that change your views at all?

[Brownie19]

Is that what it is? People think September doesn't count towards service time?

 

I'm not trying to be condescending but if this is the belief held in this thread, than a lot of it makes much more sense. So, in that case, if someone didn't know that September isn't just a free tryout period, does that change your views at all?

 

I feel really dumb. Whatever though - I'm a big boy and can admit when I'm ignorant. I love this board - it teaches me something almost every day. September call up doesn't burn an option? (c'mon - there's got to be something about the September call up).

[el diego]

Is that what it is? People think September doesn't count towards service time?

 

I'm not trying to be condescending but if this is the belief held in this thread, than a lot of it makes much more sense. So, in that case, if someone didn't know that September isn't just a free tryout period, does that change your views at all?

 

I think that's the case for a lot of people. I can see why people would assume that, actually. I think for others, perhaps they're simply ok with keeping Vlad down for an extra month next year in order to not blow a full service year.

[Bobthe4th]

I feel really dumb. Whatever though - I'm a big boy and can admit when I'm ignorant. I love this board - it teaches me something almost every day. September call up doesn't burn an option? (c'mon - there's got to be something about the September call up).

 

September means you can use anyone on the 40 man.

 

It wouldn’t burn an option this year, but as Vlad would have to be added to the 40 man it would mean one is used in 2019 if he spent any time in the minors.

[glory]

I feel really dumb. Whatever though - I'm a big boy and can admit when I'm ignorant. I love this board - it teaches me something almost every day. September call up doesn't burn an option? (c'mon - there's got to be something about the September call up).

 

Vlad would have to be put on the 40 man to be a Sept call up so his option clock would start earlier (which would mean something if he were to start the following year in the minors). The point others are making is if the Jays don't call him up now then there's no sense calling him up in September either since it wouldn't add any additional years of control. What they are missing is that calling him up after a month in AA for a 2nd wild card run (which the Jays could realistically win without him) is stupid. Calling him up in September with the intention of having him take over 3B full time in 2019, which it wouldn't be my first choice, would at least have some logic behind it.

[Boxcar]

I feel really dumb. Whatever though - I'm a big boy and can admit when I'm ignorant. I love this board - it teaches me something almost every day. September call up doesn't burn an option? (c'mon - there's got to be something about the September call up).

 

Lol there's nothing dumb about it. The benefit of September is that the MiLB season ends in late August/early Sept and so baseball decided to allow rosters to expand from 25 to 40 during that last part of the season. I probably should have realized that this was the case. Service time is never really brought up as a concern during September so I can see why this misconception would exist.