Is the Rogers brain trust holding back Shatkins from a total rebuild?

[CBlake]

This op piece in The Star has really gotten be thinking about the direction this ball club is going, after the success on the field and especially at the gate that drove ticket sales into 2017. Is the Rogers board looking at the money coming in and thus not letting a true rebuild from happening as it would drive the casual party crowd away? Would making the second wildcard this year get in the way of it once again?

 

https://www.thestar.com/sports/bluejays/opinion/2018/04/06/the-first-month-has-never-been-more-important-for-the-blue-jays.html

[Grant77]

I really don't think they went through all of the effort of hiring Shapiro, only to serve him with an ultimatum like that.

 

As things stand today, we're looking at a playoff calibre roster and a top 10 farm system that is certainly still on the rise. A full rebuild was never really necessary and I think that they knew it from the start.

 

Playoffs or not this year, we're still in a position to make additions to the roster for 2019 without sacrificing the future. I'm generally very happy with the way that they have handled the situation, outside of the Encarnacion/Morales debacle.

[Boxcar]

This op piece in The Star has really gotten be thinking about the direction this ball club is going, after the success on the field and especially at the gate that drove ticket sales into 2017. Is the Rogers board looking at the money coming in and thus not letting a true rebuild from happening as it would drive the casual party crowd away? Would making the second wildcard this year get in the way of it once again?

 

https://www.thestar.com/sports/bluejays/opinion/2018/04/06/the-first-month-has-never-been-more-important-for-the-blue-jays.html

 

Imo they had a perfect offseason. They can keep this team competitive with short term contracts and low risk trades until the farm is ready to produce. A teardown is completely unnecessary.

[CBlake]

I get what you are saying, I guess I am just looking at it from a business sandpoint where even last year the lowest attendance for a home game last year was over 28K where we have already seen it dip to early 2015 levels of just over 17K. How much does the revenue levels of 2015-17 influence what they do moving forward?

 

I really don't think they went through all of the effort of hiring Shapiro, only to serve him with an ultimatum like that.

 

As things stand today, we're looking at a playoff calibre roster and a top 10 farm system that is certainly still on the rise. A full rebuild was never really necessary and I think that they knew it from the start.

 

Playoffs or not this year, we're still in a position to make additions to the roster for 2019 without sacrificing the future. I'm generally very happy with the way that they have handled the situation, outside of the Encarnacion/Morales debacle.

[Grant77]

I get what you are saying, I guess I am just looking at it from a business sandpoint where even last year the lowest attendance for a home game last year was over 28K where we have already seen it dip to early 2015 levels of just over 17K. How much does the revenue levels of 2015-17 influence what they do moving forward?

 

We've seen in the past that payroll is based more on long term trends than short term peaks and valleys. That could certainly change, but I really have no way of knowing. I suspect that ticket sales make up a relatively small proportion of revenue anyways.

[burlingtonbandit]

I get what you are saying, I guess I am just looking at it from a business sandpoint where even last year the lowest attendance for a home game last year was over 28K where we have already seen it dip to early 2015 levels of just over 17K. How much does the revenue levels of 2015-17 influence what they do moving forward?

 

They raised their prices a ton so the dropoff isn't as much as you would think in terms of $ lost. TV numbers is much more important than attendance does anyway.

 

I believe that contract expires at the end of this season.

[Jimcanuck]

Yes

[glory]

Probably a little bit of both, with Rogers not wanting to rebuild, and possibly Shapiro realizing he can get away with not doing one. Cashman was able to balance being competitive with rebuilding for the Yanks. The Jays might be able to do the same given how close their top prospects are. It might lead to some 82 win finishes in the short term, or if we are lucky a WC appearance thrown in there, but as long as they don't go crazy by trading prospects for short term help, then it could work without having to blow things up.

[Maico450]

After game 11 of the season, the question would have to be, Why Rebuild?

At some point in the season that answer may change, but for now, the Jays are competitive and fun to watch.

If the wins keep mounting, the fans will again fill the stadium.

Think of how things will be when Travis and Grichuk start hitting.

Bo and Vlad are around the corner.

Exiting times coming for Jays without a rebuild.

[Terminator]

I think Shatkins and the FO both want to maintain the momentum that the franchise has built with the fanbase. Ownership might be a little more win-now but at the same time they don't necessarily want to up the payroll to make that fully happen. They both seem to be on the same page for the most part.

[Jonn]

We really don't need a complete a tear down as Boxy said. We have a team that should compete for a wild card spot and host of very good prospects on the cusp of making an impact. We have depth at all levels now. And Double-A is stacked. We are in really good shape. Realistically a tear down for us would be trading Donaldson and Happ and players under control for a number of years like Stroman. That just doesn't really make sense right now.

 

I think Shapiro is thrilled with where the team is at right now all things considered. The attendance doesn't worry me if the team is competitive the numbers will be great by June at the latest. The season started early, they are competing with the Raptors and Leafs. And the weather has been miserable. Even with the Dome the weather prevents you from wanting to do things around the city.

[jaysfan2014]

Regarding the attendance issue--we've seen a number of markets setting historic lows for attendance, as you've seen recently. Mediocre teams have watched their attendance crater due to the cold weather and the economy--and disgruntled fans. Look at the numbers in Baltimore yesterday--despite a rivalry matchup, only 7915 showed up.. it's not just Toronto.

 

With so many top prospects in AA, a rebuild isn't really necessary, considering Vlad Jr., Gurriel and Bichette are going to likely be in the majors by mid to late season at the rate they're tearing up AA.. many teams wish they had the depth in decent prospects the Jays have right now.

[Brownie19]

Regarding the attendance issue--we've seen a number of markets setting historic lows for attendance, as you've seen recently. Mediocre teams have watched their attendance crater due to the cold weather and the economy--and disgruntled fans. Look at the numbers in Baltimore yesterday--despite a rivalry matchup, only 7915 showed up.. it's not just Toronto.

 

With so many top prospects in AA, a rebuild isn't really necessary, considering Vlad Jr., Gurriel and Bichette are going to likely be in the majors by mid to late season at the rate they're tearing up AA.. many teams wish they had the depth in decent prospects the Jays have right now.

 

US economy is booming! MAGA

[TheHurl]

From Q2 last year

 

Media revenue saw a 4% year-over-year lift, driven by a heavy appetite for sports - but Blue Jays' salaries and the shift from print to digital contributed to a drop in profits for Q2.

 

Hockey playoffs still drive more profit than baseball.

 

But despite the Blue Jays’ negative impact on the bottom line, sports fever still drove a lift in revenue for the media division. According to Rogers, revenue gains were due largely to the popularity of Sportsnet, particularly in the wake of this year’s Stanley Cup Playoffs (which saw an 88% increase in reach and 94% increase in AMA from 2016 across Sportsnet and CBC).

 

Of course this is all 1 year after the Jays drove the Q2-3&4 profits one year earlier. Shapiro is going do what he can to keep salaries what they are IMO.

[doorknob]

New guy here. Why does everyone here seem to hate Atkins?

[KevinGregg]

New guy here. Why does everyone here seem to hate Atkins?

 

I think most people here love Atkins?

[doorknob]

Huh. I was under the impression that a lot of guys blamed him and Shapiro for focusing on profitability instead of winning... but I could be wrong.

[Jonn]

Yea this is really the only place people actually like him. Its everywhere else that doesn't and was clamouring to bring back AA.

[Captain Adama]

I think most people here love Atkins?

 

Almost unanimously I believe.

[doorknob]

Yea this is really the only place people actually like him.

 

Ah I see.

[John_Havok]

Ah I see.

 

You'll see a few unintelligent doorknobs (no offense) that overreact to everything and blame management for everything under the sun including their indigestion, but for the most part it's universal love for Shapiro and Atkins

[Willy25]

New guy here. Why does everyone here seem to hate Atkins?

 

The haters are at SN, not here.

[jaysfan2014]

US economy is booming! MAGA

 

Yeah right.. explain how stretched consumers are with rising prices for everything, and don't have the funds to go to ballgames.. and it seems league-wide, not just Baltimore..

[Jimcanuck]

Yeah right.. explain how stretched consumers are with rising prices for everything, and don't have the funds to go to ballgames.. and it seems league-wide, not just Baltimore..

 

I believe Brownie is being sarcastic.

[Maico450]

I believe Brownie is being sarcastic.

 

Its a fact. The US economy is running superfast right now. All of the small changes that Obama put into place have taken hold, and Trump has not yet been able to screw it up.

He likes to take credit for the economy booming, but he is just taking credit for what Obama did.

[Jimcanuck]

Its a fact. The US economy is running superfast right now. All of the small changes that Obama put into place have taken hold, and Trump has not yet been able to screw it up.

He likes to take credit for the economy booming, but he is just taking credit for what Obama did.

 

Agreed. The sarcasm is the "MAGA" bit

[John_Havok]

Its a fact. The US economy is running superfast right now. All of the small changes that Obama put into place have taken hold, and Trump has not yet been able to screw it up.

He likes to take credit for the economy booming, but he is just taking credit for what Obama did.

 

If only this superfast and booming economy actually benefitted anyone other than the rich. Household debt is still enormous and 15% of people live under the poverty line. That's not exactly good.

[THANOS]

Huh. I was under the impression that a lot of guys blamed him and Shapiro for focusing on profitability instead of winning... but I could be wrong.

 

That would be Sportsnet comments section or Facebook. You won't many reactionary, pardon the pun, "doorknobs" in our forum.

[Jimcanuck]

If only this superfast and booming economy actually benefitted anyone other than the rich. Household debt is still enormous and 15% of people live under the poverty line. That's not exactly good.

 

The household debt issue is not necessarily an economic issue, but more of an easy credit and living beyond means issue. A capitalist economy will always have the poverty class.

[John_Havok]

The household debt issue is not necessarily an economic issue, but more of an easy credit and living beyond means issue. A capitalist economy will always have the poverty class.

 

True to a point and I'm certainly no economist, it just seems to me that the poverty class in capitalist economies are much larger than they should be