The Jose Bautista Thread

[Spanky99]

We are the red headed step child of Cleveland. Basketball, baseball. Jesus.

 

Jesus' from Cleveland?

[Angrioter]

Indians OF sucks outside of Brantley and who knows how healthy he is. Since Cleveland already lost their 1st round pick Bautista at $17 Million makes a ton of sense, even more so when you consider the name value.

 

Bautista signing probably sells a lot more tickets there.

 

That being said if Cleveland signs him for $17 Million Shapiro/Atkins are in store for a shitstorm of epic proportions. Losing Edwin/Bautista to a low market team (where they came from) for peanuts while having Zeke and Upton on the roster would piss the fan base off to no end. Meanwhile if you sign Bautista back you probably get a nice boost of ticket sales

 

Losing Jose and Edwin?

 

Jays aren't losing they both, Jays just want to move forward without they both. This team is old, and need young and good assets ASAP

[leaffie]

Jays are losing both, no matter the semantics. If the new regime that allows a team that was twice a step away from the world series to drift off into irrelevance again because they want to get younger, they should be in a shitstorm. I know this board loves them and what they are doing, but the goal for any team is to make the playoffs, then the world series and hopefully win one. And so far their moves are less than impressive towards that goal.

[HERPDERP]

Bautista in Cleveland after the 'shaking in his boots' comments will be interesting.

 

If Bautista can't get along with anyone on this team, imagine him and Bauer..

[Frenchsoup]

Keep waiting Jose..make them come to you..

[burlingtonbandit]

Losing Jose and Edwin?

 

Jays aren't losing they both, Jays just want to move forward without they both. This team is old, and need young and good assets ASAP

 

Outside of Gurriel they haven't gotten any young assets this offseason. Bautista would be on a short term contract and is a big upgrade over whats out there in the market.

[intentional wok]

Outside of Gurriel they haven't gotten any young assets this offseason. Bautista would be on a short term contract and is a big upgrade over whats out there in the market.

 

In fairness, they'd be turning EE and JB into first rounders for the June draft.

[Stangstag]

Jays are losing both, no matter the semantics. If the new regime that allows a team that was twice a step away from the world series to drift off into irrelevance again because they want to get younger, they should be in a shitstorm. I know this board loves them and what they are doing, but the goal for any team is to make the playoffs, then the world series and hopefully win one. And so far their moves are less than impressive towards that goal.

 

Ugh. Please go post on the jays subreddit instead

[leaffie]

Pardon me? I thought this was a message board. Just because you don't like my opinion and I am not one of those slathering over Shatkins, doesn't mean I haven't a clue about how baseball teams are built. If you don't like my opinion, dispute it, otherwise, bug off.

[xposbrad]

Jays are losing both, no matter the semantics. If the new regime that allows a team that was twice a step away from the world series to drift off into irrelevance again because they want to get younger, they should be in a shitstorm. I know this board loves them and what they are doing, but the goal for any team is to make the playoffs, then the world series and hopefully win one. And so far their moves are less than impressive towards that goal.

 

Yes, it is called sustainability, and the Jays had some good contracts that expired. You are going to have to realize that what happened in the past, is the past. The future is very bleak right now, with not enough high upside prospects and management recognizes that. I think they also know trying to go all in again this year was too risky with an older team and more expensive players. This team needs to accumulate more younger talent, otherwise they will never compete with the retooling yanks and now powerhouse red sox. So I am sorry they haven't impressed you, but thankfully they didn't otherwise we'd be looking at an overly expensive non playoff team with even less chance of winning in the future (taking away 1st rounders etc..). I will reserve judgement until I see what they can trade happ/estrada/donaldson for and give them 3-5 years. This team won't be winning before then anyways.

[burlingtonbandit]

Bautista in Cleveland after the 'shaking in his boots' comments will be interesting.

 

If Bautista can't get along with anyone on this team, imagine him and Bauer..

 

Pitchers don't really talk much with position players. I think you'd be surprised how little interaction there is between teammates off the field.

[saskjayfan]

Yes, it is called sustainability, and the Jays had some good contracts that expired. You are going to have to realize that what happened in the past, is the past. The future is very bleak right now, with not enough high upside prospects and management recognizes that. I think they also know trying to go all in again this year was too risky with an older team and more expensive players. This team needs to accumulate more younger talent, otherwise they will never compete with the retooling yanks and now powerhouse red sox. So I am sorry they haven't impressed you, but thankfully they didn't otherwise we'd be looking at an overly expensive non playoff team with even less chance of winning in the future (taking away 1st rounders etc..). I will reserve judgement until I see what they can trade happ/estrada/donaldson for and give them 3-5 years. This team won't be winning before then anyways.

 

so you've already given up on this season. You're looking forward to getting rid of Donaldson to get some prospects and maybe compete 3 or 4 years from now. The Yankees are loaded with young talent and have a ton of salary coming off the books to spend in a couple years. You think it's going to be easier to compete in 3 or 4 years running into the Yankees that actually have a few young cheap players contributing and the ability to spend like they do in free agency.

 

Why did we sign Morales if we're not trying to win? Getting a top 5 player like Donaldson combined with young talented starters like Sanchez and Stroman isn't easy. Our rotation is very good. It's a playoff caliber rotation. Tulo had a historically bad start to the season offensively. He had a sub .550 OPS in the middle of May and then was a above .800 OPS bat the rest of the way. I feel his numbers will be better this year. Signing Bautista means giving up one comp pick. We've already picked up one from Eddie. We still can spend a little money to upgrade on Smoak. The club doesn't need to add a lot to compete for the playoffs. One could argue they might be in the mix even if we don't substantially add, but why not add when you are that close. Anything can happen in the post season, but you need to get there.

 

I still believe they plan on adding and there's nothing wrong with balance. It's just frustrating, because we crave news and it will likely be a few more weeks before we make our moves. If we don't make any substantial moves to improve I along with many will be disappointed. Bautista is a no brainer imo.

[leaffie]

where in my first posting did I say that I even wanted Bautista or Encarnacion. What I said was there was going to be a shitstorm if Shatkins allows this team to become irrelevant while becoming younger. And that statement is absolutely correct. Of course the team needs to become younger. Every team except the red sox needs to become younger. But younger does not always mean better. If younger and supposedly better is what this team wants, then they should have done what the Yankees have done and told their fans, this team is unsustainable and this is what we are going to do about it. Unfortunately all those thousands of new fans that have come along, will disappear. There are enough pieces still on this team that they have at least one more run in them with some additions. And so far none of the additions have been impressive. Pearce, Smoak ?? There have been no additions to the bullpen, which is sorely lacking and the outfield looks desolate. Will it improve before the off season is over, I hope so.

 

While the team is waiting 3-5 years to perhaps (no guarantee) to become relevant again, the seniors and middle age fans approx. 20,000 per game that supported this team will have died or moved on. Now you have no middle aged nor young fans and they will be starting from the start to try and build a fan base.

 

I actually for the record did not want Encarnacion back, but they made a mistake not signing him when his price dropped so low. As far as Bautista, I believe that he should be signed to a one year contract at a little over QO, to assuage his ego. IMO he will have a bigger year this year than EE.

 

Then if they come the break and they are out of it, go all in. But they won't be stocking the upper echelons of the farm, they will probably be starting near the bottom.

[BTS]

where in my first posting did I say that I even wanted Bautista or Encarnacion. What I said was there was going to be a shitstorm if Shatkins allows this team to become irrelevant while becoming younger. And that statement is absolutely correct. Of course the team needs to become younger. Every team except the red sox needs to become younger. But younger does not always mean better. If younger and supposedly better is what this team wants, then they should have done what the Yankees have done and told their fans, this team is unsustainable and this is what we are going to do about it. Unfortunately all those thousands of new fans that have come along, will disappear. There are enough pieces still on this team that they have at least one more run in them with some additions. And so far none of the additions have been impressive. Pearce, Smoak ?? There have been no additions to the bullpen, which is sorely lacking and the outfield looks desolate. Will it improve before the off season is over, I hope so.

 

While the team is waiting 3-5 years to perhaps (no guarantee) to become relevant again, the seniors and middle age fans approx. 20,000 per game that supported this team will have died or moved on. Now you have no middle aged nor young fans and they will be starting from the start to try and build a fan base.

 

I actually for the record did not want Encarnacion back, but they made a mistake not signing him when his price dropped so low. As far as Bautista, I believe that he should be signed to a one year contract at a little over QO, to assuage his ego. IMO he will have a bigger year this year than EE.

 

Then if they come the break and they are out of it, go all in. But they won't be stocking the upper echelons of the farm, they will probably be starting near the bottom.

 

Two years ago you were here bashing people who were saying that what was being built was unsustainable. Now you're bashing management because they have to clean up the long-term mess that was made.

[leaffie]

Show me where I bashed anyone. What I said then was, the same thing that I am saying now. You can not run your club always sending off your stars, in the hope that the "prospects" will somehow be better.

 

I agreed with what AA did. Did I see that this would happen. Of course, anyone can look at a farm system that was decimated and know that the day of reckoning was coming. But the question was two years ago and the same question applies now. Was it worth it? The prospect whores won't agree, they never do. There is a sense to this board that we will keep building and building to get those non stop elusive years and years of contention. You don't think every single team in baseball wouldn't like that?

 

But ask the fans that were at those games. Ask the sponsors who saw the ratings through the roof. Ask anyone that caught the excitement of the Jays for the first time. And although most on this board don't give anyone but themselves credit for understanding what exactly was being done to achieve that success, they were willing to pay the price.

 

Would we be better to have never made any of AA's trades and not had the previous two years? We would have some very good pieces of course, but could we beat the Indians or the Red Sox this year? Would any of those new fans, say, no, I would rather wait for three to five years. No one can say for sure. Not even the experts.

 

I said at the beginning of this, that there will be a shitstorm and nothing has changed. I don't like Shapiro and never made any secret of it. Did he get lucky with a few pieces, Bagnini etc. Of course, everyone does. But I have not complained about what he has done so far. And I did not say that I would be part of the shitstorm. This team still has a chance this year, and as far as I am concerned, what Shapiro has done so far is not good enough. If you think it is, so be it. At the end of the offseason, everyone can judge for themselves.

Edited January 15, 2017 by leaffie

[Captain Adama]

show me.

 

Here ya go!

 

[ Fan interest picked up because Rogers allowed their GM to increase payroll by 50%. Seeing as he does indeed have a pulse, he was able to exchange that $40 million for decent players. The fans responded.

 

And you don't think Beeston had anything to do with that?

 

 

 

No. Opinion of AA declined throughout the 2012 season among people on the board. The offseason trades were the final straw. Regarding free agents, they came here for JP, why not AA? I really don't buy "free agents won't come here!" as a viable excuse for making horribly inefficient acquisitions. Why not tackle the international market if indeed MLB players wouldn't come (which I don't buy)? Chapman, Puig, Darvish, Ryu, and Iwakuma were all available, but AA's army of scouts apparently didn't realize how good they were. "

 

 

Strange, I read the boards all the time, and all I saw was continued praise for the ninja. Yes, they came here for JP, because he overpaid. When the Burnett and Ryan signings went down, a lot of managers were ripping the Jays for pushing the market price up.

 

Or maybe Rogers hadn't given Beeston the go ahead to spend $50 million dollars in a posting fee for Darvish. Or just maybe the scouting department was spending so much time just trying to rebuild an entire farm system, that the international market was far down the list.

 

 

To each their own. I prefer sustainable success.]

 

And what fan wouldn't want a team like the cards. But other than the Rays, which team out there has sustainable success from their farm system.

 

The Jays were in a unique position last year, in that the year before had been a total bust with all the injuries. AA HAD to do something. They just could not let the momentum that had been building slip away. AA went looking for pitching and he got what was available. What GM was going to trade away prospects if they could get the same thing in free agency. No one.

 

I prefer a team that has a chance to make the playoffs, and if that involves spending money, so be it. If it can be achieved through a farm system, that every year, somehow miraculously, has all their draft picks work out and all mature at the same time, then good for the fans.

 

But in the Jays case, injuries last year wiped out any chance to see exactly what this team could be. I think a lot of people forget that.

[leaffie]

and my opinion has not changed. but didn't see any bashing there.

[Captain Adama]

and my opinion has not changed. but didn't see any bashing there.

 

It really doesn't matter if you bashed people or disagreed with them, the fact remains is that since AA tried to go all out in a manner that only left a few years of contention. 2016 was basically the last year that they could reasonably expect to contend. The fact that they have a shot at the wildcard next year is beyond what anyone could have, or should have hoped for. But now you want to try and milk the rest out of this team for a non-guaranteed shot at the wildcard for one, maybe two years max. What could happen after that? They're gonna be a lot worse than what you said is 3-5 years of being irrelevant.

[Spanky99]

C'mon Shatkins and Jose, get together and do this. One would think a 1 year deal @ 16 with a team option at 20 and a 2 million buyout would get this done.

[leaffie]

But now, that there is still a shot at a wildcard, you think they should throw it away? There is never a guarantee of anything when it comes to playoff spots and you know that. If that was really the case, then they should have gone into the winter selling every asset they had. Why can't Shapiro do both? By signing Bautista, they are taking a chance, but it is only money. Yes, they will lose a draft pick that you might not see at the majors ever. But it also will give them a chance to add some offense that they have lost. Shouldn't he be trying to build the very best team that he can put on the field right now?

 

Unless they are throwing in the towel, and going to rebuild, which there has been no indication that they are doing, it is his job to try and get this team back to the playoffs. And that is my point right from the beginning.

[Spanky99]

But now, that there is still a shot at a wildcard, you think they should throw it away? There is never a guarantee of anything when it comes to playoff spots and you know that. If that was really the case, then they should have gone into the winter selling every asset they had. Why can't Shapiro do both? By signing Bautista, they are taking a chance, but it is only money. Yes, they will lose a draft pick that you might not see at the majors ever. But it also will give them a chance to add some offense that they have lost. Shouldn't he be trying to build the very best team that he can put on the field right now?

 

Unless they are throwing in the towel, and going to rebuild, which there has been no indication that they are doing, it is his job to try and get this team back to the playoffs. And that is my point right from the beginning.

 

There's still time. We have in house relievers that can help efficiently, and Shapiro has said that Bats is the best piece on the market. Morales/Pearce and the Lourdes signing have been pretty good thus far. I'm not sweating yet...

[spittin]

Braun in RF Jose in LF, get it done.

[Spanky99]

lol

[baubau]

Show me

 

Here ya go!

 

http://ci.memecdn.com/6969753.jpg

[Ehjays]

Outside of Gurriel they haven't gotten any young assets this offseason. Bautista would be on a short term contract and is a big upgrade over whats out there in the market.

 

umm....Glenn Sparkman