Offseason Roster Thread 2016-17

[Maahfaace]

so Jay Bruce is a blue jay by this time next week

 

Barf

[burlingtonbandit]

http://www.tsn.ca/bautista-back-atop-blue-jays-outfield-list-1.648042

 

The Toronto Blue Jays have been quiet but that doesn’t mean they aren’t talking. The team is in discussions with every corner outfielder available in the free-agent market. They are also having dialogue with clubs that have corner outfielders available via trade.

The first-choice options include: Brandon Moss, Michael Saunders, Jay Bruce, Curtis Granderson and Jose Bautista. Chris Coghlan and Angel Pagan are on the call list too, but only in case of desperation.

A source familiar with the Jays’ way of thinking indicates they’re confident they will land one of their preferred options.

More interesting though is how Toronto ranks the available corner outfielders. Sources indicate the Jays have Bautista at the top of their list of remaining performers.

That doesn’t mean the Jays are going to sign Bautista and bring him back. Being able to make the right deal matters.

Remember, Edwin Encarnacion was Toronto’s Plan A at first base/designated hitter, but didn’t accept his market before the team was ready to move on to Plan B (Kendrys Morales).

Bautista was a far cry from Plan A as a corner outfielder for the Jays when the off-season started, but he looks better now that they have further evaluated the other options. As the market has slowly whittled, Bautista has moved to the top.

This negotiation will be a race to acceptance. Will Bautista accept his severely limited market and become willing to take less than the $17.2 million qualifying offer the Jays made in November before the team has to pull the trigger on Plan B?

The Jays can’t afford to add two corner outfielders and improve the bullpen as well. They have to make choices. One source indicated that it’s far more likely the Jays will add one outfielder and solve the other corner using a combination of Melvin Upton, Ezequiel Carrera and Steve Pearce. That would allow them to use their remaining resources for bullpen upgrades.

[burlingtonbandit]

I don't like how they say Toronto won't be able to afford 2 OF. If Colby Rasmus only cost $5 Million you should be able to sign Bautista for 17 and another platoon corner OF like Moss.

 

In now way should Carrera have a starting spot on the team.

[glory]

Rasmus signed for 1/5 and Plouffe signed for 1/5.

 

No reason why the Jays couldn't afford two of Moss, Valbuena, Pagan, whoever. They could probably afford Bautista and one of those other guys depending on how much money they have left.

[BTS]

Blue Jays sub-Reddit found fangraphs:

 

Jaysfan

12:18

Who says no Stroman for Cargo?

 

Dave Cameron

12:18

Well, considering that CarGo has basically no real trade value as an average-ish player making $20M on a one year deal, I'd think the Jays would say no even if they had to give up just a Stroman jersey without Stroman in it.

[Sorrow]

Blue Jays sub-Reddit found fangraphs:

 

Jaysfan

12:18

Who says no Stroman for Cargo?

 

Dave Cameron

12:18

Well, considering that CarGo has basically no real trade value as an average-ish player making $20M on a one year deal, I'd think the Jays would say no even if they had to give up just a Stroman jersey without Stroman in it.

 

That is the greatest response I've read for a trade proposal like that.

[Terminator]

Rasmus signed for 1/5 and Plouffe signed for 1/5.

 

No reason why the Jays couldn't afford two of Moss, Valbuena, Pagan, whoever. They could probably afford Bautista and one of those other guys depending on how much money they have left.

 

Why did we give Morales 3 years and 33 million again?

[Brownie19]

Blue Jays sub-Reddit found fangraphs:

 

Jaysfan

12:18

Who says no Stroman for Cargo?

 

Dave Cameron

12:18

Well, considering that CarGo has basically no real trade value as an average-ish player making $20M on a one year deal, I'd think the Jays would say no even if they had to give up just a Stroman jersey without Stroman in it.

 

Holy f*** that's phenomenal.

[Brownie19]

Here's some more from that chat:

 

 

A. Reitz 12:51

 

Explain to me please how Cargo has no trade value...would love to hear you back that up. Since 2010 he's been one of the best offensive OF's in baseball. Steamer projects another 30+ HR's this year w/ a wOBA of 360. Putting him 6th among all OF's. Go ahead...

 

Dave Cameron 12:52

 

Park effects are a thing. Gonzalez's three year wRC+ numbers: 83, 114, 108. He's not that much better of a hitter than Mark Trumbo at this point, and you can see how much interest Trumbo is generating as a free agent.

 

 

 

Craner 12:31

 

Toronto radio says that Vlad Jr was the start to a Cutch deal. Would you make that move?

 

Dave Cameron 12:31

 

The Pirates aren't trading McCutchen for a guy who is six years from the big leagues.

 

 

afnj 12:40

 

I've been a Jays season ticket holder since 2008. This offseason is making me want to abandon ship through their poor decisions. Would you say it's time for Jays fans to crack each other's heads open and feast on the goo inside?

 

Dave Cameron 12:41

 

I don't love the Morales signing, but they actually got lucky that Encarnacion turned them down; that deal wasn't going to turn out well. If they end up with Bautista on a discount, they'll be better off.

 

 

NatsFan 12:04

 

Two questions:

 

1) Are the Nats the best possible fit for Chris Coghlan? (Lefthanded insurance for Werth and Zimmerman while also being middle infield depth)

2) Is this the first time you've thought about Chris Coghlan this offseason?

 

Dave Cameron 12:04

 

I think Seth Smith was the best fit, but Brandon Moss would work too. Not sure you want Coghlan playing 2B much anymore.

 

And yes, I had forgotten he existed until 15 seconds ago.

[glory]

You can tell Jays fans miss AA. A player who used to be good, making $20mm a year, has no trade value? Prove em wrong, Alex.

[wk680]

Blue Jays sub-Reddit found fangraphs:

 

Jaysfan

12:18

Who says no Stroman for Cargo?

 

Dave Cameron

12:18

Well, considering that CarGo has basically no real trade value as an average-ish player making $20M on a one year deal, I'd think the Jays would say no even if they had to give up just a Stroman jersey without Stroman in it.

 

I think he has trade value and could help the Jays at least as much as a Moss, but the salary is pretty big. Maybe he is worth the likes of a Drew Hutchison (were he still with the Jays), but no doubt it is laughable to consider Stroman for Cargo straight up.

 

There is an article on the issue of the Rockies extending Cargo past this season on Fangraphs today. I wouldn't be surprised if they end up trading him and bringing in Trumbo as a replacement. Although the article mentions Cargo has been mentoring Arenado and is a fan favorite, so they may want to continue that for one more year.

[G-Snarls]

Actually I think Alex was the king of trading away the guys with no trade value.

 

It was weird hearing AA on the radio today

 

Discussing re Kenley Jansen signing

 

"the player wanted to stay here which helped a lot" he said

[G-Snarls]

I would also want to stay somewhere warm, where I can pitch 60-70 innings a year for 5 years and make 80 million dollars. Oh, and have a legit chance at winning a World Series while I'm at it.

 

Seems like a decent gig

[Stangstag]

Why did we give Morales 3 years and 33 million again?

 

Because he's a great hitter? Its not very hard to understand.

[Spanky99]

Rasmus signed for 1/5 and Plouffe signed for 1/5.

 

No reason why the Jays couldn't afford two of Moss, Valbuena, Pagan, whoever. They could probably afford Bautista and one of those other guys depending on how much money they have left.

 

Damn Plouffe signed today, I figured he would sign with a team that keeps him at 3rd base, but that contract is great.

[baubau]

Actually I think Alex was the king of trading away the guys with no trade value.

 

Could you provide me a few examples? I am just looking over his trade history and see guys with a lot of value being moved. He certainly had his "amazing" trades like Donaldson and Travis but overall...

[z3r0s]

Would you say it's time for Jays fans to crack each other's heads open and feast on the goo inside?

 

yes i would kent

[Terminator]

Because he's a great hitter? Its not very hard to understand.

 

Get real. He ranked 80th in baseball in wRC+. He's not a "great" hitter. He also doesn't play a position (which both limits his value and the number of teams that could even possibly have interest) and he's old. He also prevented us from resigning a superior player in Edwin.

 

It's not a massive overpay and hindsight is 20/20 but it's clear after seeing these latest prices come in that Morales was give too much money.

[Ray]

It's not terribly hard to understand the Morales situation.

 

- We offered Encarnacion $80 million over 4 years with a 5th year option that he turned down thinking he could get more

 

- Our office panicked, and thinking they didn't want to get left behind signed one of the best available free agent replacements for Encarnacion in Morales. Morales was also one of the very first free agent pickups, which is why we probably had to overpay by an extra year to get him so that he didn't test the market.

 

- Encarnacion market absolutely crashed which no one was really expecting, which allowed teams like the A's and Indians to bid on him in the first place.

 

There's blame to be put on both sides, but both sides also had some logical thinking. We could've waited out Encarnacion and probably ended up getting him for the initial deal we put out, but the risk was the if some other team outrageously bid on him, we could've lost out on both Morales and Encarnacion.

 

Encarnacion should've taken the deal, but he was thinking he could've gotten more. I don't blame him. I don't think anyone quite expected his market to crash as much as it did. Cespedes deal screwed him over big time.

[Terminator]

I'm not trying to rehash it all and I understand that their are mitigating factors but 3 years and 33 million for Morales in a vacuum doesn't seem like a good deal to me right now. Just wait until his age 36 season when he's locked in to our DH spot.

[Ray]

$11 million AAV is fine. I'd say it's even good for a guy like Morales. I can see the issue with 3 years, but like I said, we likely had to go a little over to get Morales since we got him so early into the market. I'm fine with it. If Morales has a year like 2015 and we're clearly out of contention, I bet you we could flip him in the offseason for something relatively valuable. Even better if he can prove he can play 1st.

[Governator]

I'm not trying to rehash it all and I understand that their are mitigating factors but 3 years and 33 million for Morales in a vacuum doesn't seem like a good deal to me right now. Just wait until his age 36 season when he's locked in to our DH spot.

 

Doesn't mean he has to be with us in year 3.

[Terminator]

Doesn't mean he has to be with us in year 3.

 

Yeah that's a good point. Doesn't mean the Vernon Wells deal was a good signing even though we didn't have to bear the brunt of it though.

[Brownie19]

Could you provide me a few examples? I am just looking over his trade history and see guys with a lot of value being moved. He certainly had his "amazing" trades like Donaldson and Travis but overall...

 

Vernon Wells

Jose Reyes

[Governator]

Yeah that's a good point. Doesn't mean the Vernon Wells deal was a good signing even though we didn't have to bear the brunt of it though.

 

Paying Encarnacion $20MM+ in his 4th year when he's 38 could also have hurt us much more than paying Morales $11MM when he's 36.

[Terminator]

Paying Encarnacion $20MM+ in his 4th year when he's 38 could also have hurt us much more than paying Morales $11MM when he's 36.

 

Yeah for sure. I like Encarnacion at 3 for 65 though.

[Terminator]

Could you provide me a few examples? I am just looking over his trade history and see guys with a lot of value being moved. He certainly had his "amazing" trades like Donaldson and Travis but overall...

 

Vernon Wells was one of his best trades.

 

AA gets a lot of s*** and a lot of it is deserved. I didn't like his process like most others here.

 

But I didn't mind his aggressiveness. Sometimes it would get him in trouble (Synder) but other times it would be a boon (Donaldson). Overall he wasn't a horrible GM. Won us the division and set us up for contention for the following two years after he left. Long term I'm not sure how he would have played out though.

[KingKat]

Vernon Wells was one of his best trades.

 

AA gets a lot of s*** and a lot of it is deserved. I didn't like his process like most others here.

 

But I didn't mind his aggressiveness. Sometimes it would get him in trouble (Synder) but other times it would be a boon (Donaldson). Overall he wasn't a horrible GM. Won us the division and set us up for contention for the following two years after he left. Long term I'm not sure how he would have played out though.

 

He was a decent GM cut from an antiquated cloth.

[Terminator]

AA wanted the same things as Shatkins but just went about it in the exact opposite manner. He basically was betting on himself in every trade he made. In order to extend our window he'd have to keep hitting on Gose for Travis trades and keep drafting or signing Vlad Jr's and that was always an insanely risky plan.

 

But I'm not really against trading the Nestor Molinas and Miguel Castros of the world after you pump their value for a couple months.

 

He had one huge f***up but he also had some great deals. The Vernon Wells trade was probably a net 80+ million in surplus value.

[TheHurl]

He had one huge f***up but he also had some great deals. The Vernon Wells trade was probably a net 80+ million in surplus value.

 

He nets at a zero in his huge splashes. The Florida trade was something like a $120M net value deficit, Donaldson deal and Dickey deal probably wipe each other out.