Offseason Roster Thread 2016-17

[Ultimate]

Well both are starters right now.

 

Completely irrelevant. THere are not games scheduled in January.

[Terminator]

Completely irrelevant. THere are not games scheduled in January.

 

I'm pretty confident that both won't start. I'm not that confident that we won't see them in a platoon to start the season.

[wk680]

His value likely will never be higher than right now. He's also a real risk for TJS. If he was to be traded for a big haul, fine by me.

 

I'm curious as to why Sanchez would be a risk for elbow problems more than any other pitcher. He has a smooth delivery with good mechanics and throws mostly fastballs, so not a lot of the strain that occurs with the breaking balls. Now Chris Sale, that is a candidate for arm problems. Reminds me of back in the day with Duane Ward: they warned his unorthodox mechanics would lead to problems and sure enough.....

[Jimcanuck]

I'm curious as to why Sanchez would be a risk for elbow problems more than any other pitcher. He has a smooth delivery with good mechanics and throws mostly fastballs, so not a lot of the strain that occurs with the breaking balls. Now Chris Sale, that is a candidate for arm problems. Reminds me of back in the day with Duane Ward: they warned his unorthodox mechanics would lead to problems and sure enough.....

 

been discussed a number of times.... jays had him shorten his stride to improve control so he's getting velocity disproportionately from arm action. also the inverted W. had a bit of dead arm in 2015, was shut down for a bit in 2016. some signs are there but never know, he could also pitch for the next 15 years without issue, but it is frankly unlikely. a guy that throws that hard and with those mechanics is almost guaranteed TJS at some point

[GD]

I'm curious as to why Sanchez would be a risk for elbow problems more than any other pitcher. He has a smooth delivery with good mechanics and throws mostly fastballs, so not a lot of the strain that occurs with the breaking balls. Now Chris Sale, that is a candidate for arm problems. Reminds me of back in the day with Duane Ward: they warned his unorthodox mechanics would lead to problems and sure enough.....

 

been discussed a number of times.... jays had him shorten his stride to improve control so he's getting velocity disproportionately from arm action. also the inverted W. had a bit of dead arm in 2015, was shut down for a bit in 2016. some signs are there but never know, he could also pitch for the next 15 years without issue, but it is frankly unlikely. a guy that throws that hard and with those mechanics is almost guaranteed TJS at some point

 

oh god @ all of this

 

"He has a smooth delivery with good mechanics and throws mostly fastballs." Sanchez's delivery is pretty ugly but subjectivity aside, there's nothing conclusive that says throwing breaking balls is more or less likely to cause arm injury. Certain studies have shown correlation between fastball frequency and injury risk, and others simply between throwing hard.

 

"getting velocity disproportionately from arm action." What? The elbow spiral is key to generating velocity and lower body ground force impact has little to no importance to generating velocity.

 

Sanchez and other Jays' modelled 2016 workload

 

http://www.mikesonne.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/2016-jays.png

http://www.mikesonne.ca/baseball/giving-a-big-fu-to-workload-metrics-in-pitchers-part-1-fatigue-modelling/

[TheHurl]

I'm curious as to why Sanchez would be a risk for elbow problems more than any other pitcher. He has a smooth delivery with good mechanics and throws mostly fastballs, so not a lot of the strain that occurs with the breaking balls. Now Chris Sale, that is a candidate for arm problems. Reminds me of back in the day with Duane Ward: they warned his unorthodox mechanics would lead to problems and sure enough.....

 

Pitching in almost half the Jays games for 6 straight seasons had nothing to do with it.

[Pendleton]

Just out of curiosity, how much value would we be projected to receive from an Upton/Carerra platoon?

[Jimcanuck]

"getting velocity disproportionately from arm action." What? The elbow spiral is key to generating velocity and lower body ground force impact has little to no importance to generating velocity.

 

A decrease in stride length is associated with a decrease in velocity, due to lower trunk rotation. But in Sanchez' case, there has been no apparent decrease. Does this mean he is throwing harder to maintain velocity or is he a freak of nature. Most likely the former.

[GD]

A decrease in stride length is associated with a decrease in velocity, due to lower trunk rotation. But in Sanchez' case, there has been no apparent decrease. Does this mean he is throwing harder to maintain velocity or is he a freak of nature. Most likely the former.

 

 

Sanchez could have highly efficient stride leg mechanics that give him a strong plant, which has shown to correlate well with velocity.

 

Sanchez could have good upper rotation despite a short stride. This may or may correlate with velocity.

 

"Getting velocity disproportionately from arm action" still means nothing. Stating anything conclusively about mechanics period is lunacy, but you didn't even state anything substantively.

[Boxcar]

A decrease in stride length is associated with a decrease in velocity, due to lower trunk rotation. But in Sanchez' case, there has been no apparent decrease. Does this mean he is throwing harder to maintain velocity or is he a freak of nature. Most likely the former.

 

Dude, if you don't know what you're talking about, just admit you were trying to ********. Don't continue the charade.

[wk680]

been discussed a number of times.... jays had him shorten his stride to improve control so he's getting velocity disproportionately from arm action. also the inverted W. had a bit of dead arm in 2015, was shut down for a bit in 2016. some signs are there but never know, he could also pitch for the next 15 years without issue, but it is frankly unlikely. a guy that throws that hard and with those mechanics is almost guaranteed TJS at some point

 

Possibly the stride was 'too long' before and is now more what it should have been? Yeah the inverted W approach that Sanchez falls into has been suggested to be problematic, but I think nothing definitive on that. I guess my thinking was biased by how many times I have heard Dan Plesac on MLB Network refer to Sanchez's 'smooth and easy 95 mph' and how much he thinks of the kid.

[Bobthe4th]

How do you see Carerra fitting on the roster? If we have a 7 man bullpen and 4 man bench that leaves room for only a 4th outfielder (or if there is a 5th OF Pearce is that guy). And logic would seem to indicate that Upton will be needed as the fourth outfielder as at least one of our corner outfielders will require a platoon partner in Upton.

 

Only way I see Carerra on the roster is if he is a starter or if Upton is somehow a starter.

 

Well you just answered your own question.

 

I see us obtaining a RF and mainly using Upton and Carrera in LF, with Pearce playing some OF and Barney also getting a few games there.

 

I assume that Goins is the odd man out for the 25 man, as Barney makes him redundant.

[Jimcanuck]

Dude, if you don't know what you're talking about, just admit you were trying to ********. Don't continue the charade.

 

I have read various articles on the subject. Increased strain on the elbow/shoulder by reducing the torque (and power generation) from other parts of the body should naturally lead to more arm injuries.

[Jimcanuck]

Stating anything conclusively about mechanics period is lunacy

 

This is true, the articles I read all have the same "not fully understood" caveats

[Brownie19]

http://www.mikesonne.ca/baseball/giving-a-big-fu-to-workload-metrics-in-pitchers-part-1-fatigue-modelling/

 

That's interesting that a faster pace actually decreases fatigue. No wonder Buehrle never hurt his arm.

[GD]

This is true, the articles I read all have the same "not fully understood" caveats

 

Ok good talk champ

[Jimcanuck]

Ok good talk champ

 

Glad you learned something kid

[BigCecil]

Pitching in almost half the Jays games for 6 straight seasons had nothing to do with it.

 

Ya, they threw WARD out there until his arm literally blew up. 5 consecutive seasons with over 100 IP out of the pen, and some worry about overuse with Osuna's 58.

[HERPDERP]

f***ing Estrada, really man?

 

[RealAccountant]

Seriously feels like Estrada's back is held by pins and needles

[burlingtonbandit]

Well they only have 1 year left on the contract.

[Ray]

Conner Greene, come on down!

 

Either that or I guess they'll have Biagini spot start in case Estrada can't go some days.

[P2F]

Greene isn't ready. But I think he finally puts it together this season in the minors.

[Spanky99]

f***ing Estrada, really man?

 

 

Sheeeeeeeit.

[Ultimate]

I have read various articles on the subject. Increased strain on the elbow/shoulder by reducing the torque (and power generation) from other parts of the body should naturally lead to more arm injuries.

 

Its certainly possible. But if they sign 2 outfielders (IE Saunders and Pagan) then Carerra likely doesn't make the team.

 

If they only sign one outfielder, I see it being Pompey and Carerra competing for one job and I would lean towards Pompey.

[TBJ12]

f***ing Estrada, really man?

 

 

That's unfortunate. It's likely a permanent injury at this point, back injuries don't just go away.

[Spanky99]

That's unfortunate. It's likely a permanent injury at this point, back injuries don't just go away.

 

No they don't, I know.

[RealAccountant]

Starting to get the feeling Bautista is not part of the plan. Maybe an offer of 1/15 or 1/16 was made and Jose has too much pride for that

 

Surprised we have heard nothing on Saunders either

[Terminator]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/01/blue-jays-sign-gavin-floyd-to-minor-league-deal.html

 

Jays sign Floyd to a minor league deal.

[HERPDERP]

like it