Offseason Roster Thread 2016-17

[BTS]

41 year old Dickey, 39 year old Grilli, 39 year old Benoit, 35 year old Bautista all push that number through the roof. I only expect one of those guys to be on the opening day roster 2017.

 

You can do this with a lot of teams.

 

Red Sox: 37 year old Ziegler, 41 year old Uehara, 36 year old Hanigan, 41 year old Ortiz

 

I think that, the 'oldest team in baseball' argument aside, it's a legitimate point that the players the team relies on are old. The list of players on the team who you can reasonably project close to 2 wins, are younger than 32 in 2017, and who have more than two years of team control:

 

Travis (26)

Pillar (28)

Osuna (22)

Sanchez (24)

Stroman (26)

 

With nothing on the way from the minors in the next two years unless you really like Tellez and Pompey. I think there's definitely a very concerning lack of young talent on the team and in the upper minors.

[Spanky99]

41 year old Dickey, 39 year old Grilli, 39 year old Benoit, 35 year old Bautista all push that number through the roof. I only expect one of those guys to be on the opening day roster 2017.

 

Was just going to post this... they push the age through the roof, it really isn't a fair thing to be flinging around.

[Spanky99]

You can do this with a lot of teams.

 

Red Sox: 37 year old Ziegler, 41 year old Uehara, 36 year old Hanigan, 41 year old Ortiz

 

I think that, the 'oldest team in baseball' argument aside, it's a legitimate point that the players the team relies on are old. The list of players on the team who you can reasonably project close to 2 wins, are younger than 32 in 2017, and who have more than two years of team control:

 

Travis (26)

Pillar (28)

Osuna (22)

Sanchez (24)

Stroman (26)

 

With nothing on the way from the minors in the next two years unless you really like Tellez and Pompey. I think there's definitely a very concerning lack of young talent on the team and in the upper minors.

 

So you agree they should overhaul this team, now? Plus you're cherry picking guys age and talent between 32 and 35 is very effective, that's not right.

[BTS]

So you agree they should overhaul this team?

 

I think they should keep doing what they've done for the last year: keep adding wins where you can without borrowing from the future. The team is going to have to find a new group of cheap core players, but I think this management team can do it without piling up losing seasons.

[Spanky99]

I think they should keep doing what they've done for the last year: keep adding wins where you can without borrowing from the future. The team is going to have to find a new group of cheap core players, but I think this management team can do it without piling up losing seasons.

 

Thanks, that's how I think they'll move around this gap, also.

[BTS]

Thanks, that's how I think they'll move around this gap, also.

 

They've already added some nice pieces to the prospect pool: Zeuch, Bichette, McGuire, and Ramirez in and nobody of any consequence out. There may not be any stars there, but that's some nice improvements to the prospect depth in a year where they also made the ALCS.

[L54]

You can do this with a lot of teams.

 

Red Sox: 37 year old Ziegler, 41 year old Uehara, 36 year old Hanigan, 41 year old Ortiz

 

I think that, the 'oldest team in baseball' argument aside, it's a legitimate point that the players the team relies on are old. The list of players on the team who you can reasonably project close to 2 wins, are younger than 32 in 2017, and who have more than two years of team control:

 

Travis (26)

Pillar (28)

Osuna (22)

Sanchez (24)

Stroman (26)

 

With nothing on the way from the minors in the next two years unless you really like Tellez and Pompey. I think there's definitely a very concerning lack of young talent on the team and in the upper minors.

 

Most good teams have old players. The Tigers, Mariners, Dodgers come to mind. Most teams aren't the Cubs or Red Sox. This notion that we are quickly becoming the Phillies is nauseating, and the oldest team in baseball tag will be removed next year.

 

An injection of youth would be nice this year, but isn't entirely necessary. A year from now there's a very real chance that guys like Alford, Tellez, SRF and Greene are close to contributing.

[BTS]

Most good teams have old players. The Tigers, Mariners, Dodgers come to mind. Most teams aren't the Cubs or Red Sox. This notion that we are quickly becoming the Phillies is nauseating, and the oldest team in baseball tag will be removed next year.

 

An injection of youth would be nice this year, but isn't entirely necessary. A year from now there's a very real chance that guys like Alford, Tellez, SRF and Greene are close to contributing.

 

Well, the Dodgers have Seager, Pederson, Urias, De Leon, Maeda, and Kershaw as a young-ish core, which is quite a lot better than Toronto's. And the Mariners and Tigers are examples of the type of team I hope that this is for 2-3 years until they've assembled a sustainable core. Turning this roster will be delicate, and very difficult if payroll isn't well past 150M.

[Spanky99]

Well, the Dodgers have Seager, Pederson, Urias, De Leon, Maeda, and Kershaw as a young-ish core, which is quite a lot better than Toronto's. And the Mariners and Tigers are examples of the type of team I hope that this is for 2-3 years until they've assembled a sustainable core. Turning this roster will be delicate, and very difficult if payroll isn't well past 150M.

 

I can't wait to hear our payroll parameters this year... they certainly have to be meticulous in there acquisitions. I believe this FO can do it.

[BTS]

I can't wait to hear our payroll parameters this year... they certainly have to be meticulous in there acquisitions. I believe this FO can do it.

 

Yup. There's a big difference between 135 and 165, and I could see it being anywhere in there.

[wk680]

He actually trended in the wrong direction last year in AAA. K% up, BB% down, wRC+ down from 2015 AAA #'s. His defense was also bizarrely terrible at times.

 

If the FO had any confidence in him at all, I think you would have seen him with the big club when Jose got hurt (either the 1st or 2nd time).

 

Well, Pompey is still fairly young (turns 24 in Dec.), so maybe they will give him one more year to prove himself at AAA and later in the year at the Big League level. OTOH, now may be the time to cut bait if he can be included in a package to acquire an impact player to contribute to another championship run in 2017. Who knows, maybe being on his home town team is just not going to work for him, and he would benefit from another environment in which he does not need to deal with the extra pressure of living up to the additional expectations.

[Grant77]

We were the oldest team in the majors this season, with a fairly hefty payroll. If that stays status quo, we're the Phillies, circa 2014. Our farm is below average, and there is a dearth of position players in the upper minors. We're not in awful shape, but we're not in great shape.

 

Martin, Tulo and JB and/or EE (if signed long term) may prove to be albatross type contracts. That's a risk in signing an older player on the wrong side of 30.

 

That happens when you have a couple of the oldest players in the league in Grilli and Dickey. For they type of deal Grill is on, I don't really care if he's 31 or 41.

 

We'll never agree anyways because your view on the farm system is ridiculously uninformed. A large part of the reason that we shouldn't do a Phillies style rebuild is the strength of our farm and young players as well as Atkins' ability to add talent without giving up a ton of prospect capital.

[Abomination]

You can do this with a lot of teams.

 

Red Sox: 37 year old Ziegler, 41 year old Uehara, 36 year old Hanigan, 41 year old Ortiz

 

I think that, the 'oldest team in baseball' argument aside, it's a legitimate point that the players the team relies on are old. The list of players on the team who you can reasonably project close to 2 wins, are younger than 32 in 2017, and who have more than two years of team control:

 

Travis (26)

Pillar (28)

Osuna (22)

Sanchez (24)

Stroman (26)

 

With nothing on the way from the minors in the next two years unless you really like Tellez and Pompey. I think there's definitely a very concerning lack of young talent on the team and in the upper minors.

 

Average age is much less important than core age (although ours isn't great there either). A couple of relievers or bench players pushing the average age up isn't a major concern. Having older core players definitely is.

[dineke]

We were the oldest team in the majors this season, with a fairly hefty payroll. If that stays status quo, we're the Phillies, circa 2014. Our farm is below average, and there is a dearth of position players in the upper minors. We're not in awful shape, but we're not in great shape.

 

Martin, Tulo and JB and/or EE (if signed long term) may prove to be albatross type contracts. That's a risk in signing an older player on the wrong side of 30.

 

To be the Philles circa 2014 they would need a transcendent GM on the level of Rubin Amaro.

[wk680]

Ethier + Barnes for Smoak is really the only framework I can see working. Smoak is an 8.4 M sunk cost. Ethier is owed 20.5M for one year and will probably project at like 1 win in a platoon role, so he's worth like -12M. A straight swap of the two has the Dodgers picking up like 4-5 in projected surplus value, so Barnes evens that out.

 

I am puzzled about a trade of Smoak to LAD. They already have A. Gonzalez as regular 1B, and coincidentally is about as slow a base runner (saw Gonzalez described as the 'human sloth' on a Dodgers discussion board). So I guess Smoak would just be there as back-up 1B and pinch hitter?

 

It appears Ethier is $17.5M for 2017 with a $17.5M 'vesting' option for 2018 ($2.5M buyout). Does this vesting mean he needs to have played a certain number of games in 2017 for it to vest, and otherwise they can drop him with no further financial commitment; but if it does vest he can still be bought out for $2.5M?

 

One other interesting thing is he is listed as 9.1 years service time so just short of 5/10 trade veto rights. Although his contract, like many, may have teams excluded.

[Brownie19]

I am puzzled about a trade of Smoak to LAD. They already have A. Gonzalez as regular 1B, and coincidentally is about as slow a base runner (saw Gonzalez described as the 'human sloth' on a Dodgers discussion board). So I guess Smoak would just be there as back-up 1B and pinch hitter?

 

It appears Ethier is $17.5M for 2017 with a $17.5M 'vesting' option for 2018 ($2.5M buyout). Does this vesting mean he needs to have played a certain number of games in 2017 for it to vest, and otherwise they can drop him with no further financial commitment; but if it does vest he can still be bought out for $2.5M?

 

One other interesting thing is he is listed as 9.1 years service time so just short of 5/10 trade veto rights. Although his contract, like many, may have teams excluded.

 

We don't think LA wants Smoak...but to get rid of Ether and his contract - they may have to take on some dead weight.

 

I believe his 2018 contract to is guaranteed if he gets 550 at bats next year or something. Otherwise it's a team option.

[wk680]

We don't think LA wants Smoak...but to get rid of Ether and his contract - they may have to take on some dead weight.

 

I believe his 2018 contract to is guaranteed if he gets 550 at bats next year or something. Otherwise it's a team option.

 

Well at least Smoak would give them a bench bat with some pop, but no versatility on D. Maybe they would rather have Upton. At least he has some speed. I'm still hoping he can contribute in a meaningful way if he ends up staying.

[glory]

I think they should keep doing what they've done for the last year: keep adding wins where you can without borrowing from the future. The team is going to have to find a new group of cheap core players, but I think this management team can do it without piling up losing seasons.

 

Yep that's how I'd do it as well. They shouldn't have to rebuild unless things really hit the shits next season. Just keep improving the big league club without hurting the farm system, and if the drafting/developing goes well, then they'll be able to start incorporating young talent into the lineup eventually. Easier said than done but it's doable with some shrewed moves and luck.

[SSTP]

I think Shatkins took a serious look at him because they thought he'd be a slight upgrade over Saunders (and a more durable option). Saunders came back from the dead and had a huge 1st half and we all scoffed at the idea they wanted to deal this guy for Jay Bruce. Then Saunders showed his true colours in the 2nd half and we could see why Shatkins was looking at Bruce as a slight upgrade.

 

I don't think our previous interest in Bruce is any indication moving forward...let's be honest, the market for OFers we could acquire while trading Michael Saunders was incredibly bare.

 

I really don't think the 2nd half was Saunders' true colours. I remember he went to the DL very shortly after the all-star break for personal reasons. Were those personal reasons ever leaked? Could have been some real s*** that messed with his head the rest of the year…

He finished the year with a wRC+ 117, which is solid (albeit very streaky)…but just not combined with that defense. He's put up a wRC+ of 117, 126, 101 and 108 the last 4 years.However, that torn meniscus def hurt his ability to field the position. Can he recover some range? If not, he'd probably need to put up a wRC+ 140 to deal with the D. I could see a 2/27 or something in a few scenario's, which has a decent amount of upside still...

[Grant77]

Yep that's how I'd do it as well. They shouldn't have to rebuild unless things really hit the shits next season. Just keep improving the big league club without hurting the farm system, and if the drafting/developing goes well, then they'll be able to start incorporating young talent into the lineup eventually. Easier said than done but it's doable with some shrewed moves and luck.

 

Tellez and Pompey being real contributors would be huge for us in the bridge years leading to our next wave of prospects. The cost certainty would allow us to keep our league best rotation intact and add a couple of significant bats. By then, you have Greene, SRF, Harris, and maybe even Zeuch on the staff with Stroman, Sanchez, and Osuna and things are looking up.

[thatoneguy]

Yep that's how I'd do it as well. They shouldn't have to rebuild unless things really hit the shits next season. Just keep improving the big league club without hurting the farm system, and if the drafting/developing goes well, then they'll be able to start incorporating young talent into the lineup eventually. Easier said than done but it's doable with some shrewed moves and luck.

 

Trusting "luck" when you're the Blue Jays is a dicey proposition.

[Grant77]

So Question?

If blue jays qualify Jose Bautista and

Edwin Encarncion and they sign some

where else does that mean the jays

would get two more first round picks.

And second how does that affect how much they

can spend on the first 10 players the blue jays draft.

And international spending.

 

Yes, it means that we would get two additional picks. These picks would probably be in the early 30's and have a slot value of approximately 4 million dollars based on last year's values. It has no effect on International spending under current rules.

[Governator]

Not really surprising..

 

Report: Bautista to turn down qualifying offer from Blue Jays

 

 

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/report-bautista-turn-qualifying-offer-blue-jays/

[Bobthe4th]

Not really surprising..

 

Report: Bautista to turn down qualifying offer from Blue Jays

 

 

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/report-bautista-turn-qualifying-offer-blue-jays/

 

Agree it's not a surprise, he's consistently stated he wanted to test the market.

 

There is a chance no one offers enough for what he wants, but he'll prob manage to get up to 3/60 from someone.

 

If it's truly the end of his time here, then thanks for the memories Jose!

[jaysblue]

Not really surprising..

 

Report: Bautista to turn down qualifying offer from Blue Jays

 

 

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/report-bautista-turn-qualifying-offer-blue-jays/

 

Could possibly hurt his market this offseason if teams are hesitant to part with a draft pick for him. Wouldn't shock me if he resigned with the Blue Jays or signed with another team for $10-12 million on a one-year deal closer to spring training if he doesn't get the contract he is looking for.

[Abomination]

Could possibly hurt his market this offseason if teams are hesitant to part with a draft pick for him. Wouldn't shock me if he resigned with the Blue Jays or signed with another team for $10-12 million on a one-year deal closer to spring training if he doesn't get the contract he is looking for.

 

I don't see that happening. Someone would give him close to 20M on a 1 year deal I would think (quite likely us included). The question is what GMs are willing to give him on a three or four year deal.

[burlingtonbandit]

Could possibly hurt his market this offseason if teams are hesitant to part with a draft pick for him. Wouldn't shock me if he resigned with the Blue Jays or signed with another team for $10-12 million on a one-year deal closer to spring training if he doesn't get the contract he is looking for.

 

That would be a huge shock to everyone in the industry. I see Houston being a good fit for him.

[RealAccountant]

He will get a decent contract and he will have a good year next year. May hit 40/100

[vic city]

He will get a decent contract and he will have a good year next year. May hit 40/100

 

If Bautista gets 4 years or $25M per, either one, I'll light my balls on fire and delete my profile.

[Krylian]

If Bautista gets 4 years or $25M per, either one, I'll light my balls on fire and delete my profile.

 

Can you post the vid of your balls going up in flames? Gonna need some proof.

 

K thanks.