Offseason Roster Thread 2016-17

[jays4life19]

Jay Bruce is projected to be like what? 100ish wRC+ next year and is a butcher in the OF. Do not want.

[Grant77]

Trading with the Dodgers makes me nervous. Their only catcher next year is Grandal, who tends to get hurt, so it seems like a great chance to break Barnes in. If they don't want to do that, why not?

 

You don't think they take the 4 mil option on Carlos Ruiz? He just put up 1.5 WAR.

[BlueJaysGirl]

Do you guys think a major overhaul might be for the best?

 

I don't mean rebuild, but an overhaul; keeping centerpieces like Tulo, Martin and JD.

 

Saunders might be a decent DH/OF option going forward, but maybe not.

 

Our strength is CF, where I think it may make sense to sell sort of high on Pillar. And let Pompey play everyday. I would try to move Upton, too.

 

I may try to move either Happ or Estrada, if there is something really decent in return. Younger, more controllable pitching perhaps?

 

I see what happened to the Phillies when they got old overnight with bloated contracts.

 

I also saw what happened with the Yankees. Who seemed to sell everything, but look a ton stronger, short of their bullpen. And bullpens may be the easiest component to rebuild on a MLB team.

 

I wouldn't throw up if we went considerably younger (and cheaper, as a result) if it meant sustainable success, and perhaps the possibility of instant success. By that I mean I don't want to trade for lower minor talent. Kids ready for everyday action appeal to me. Like Travis, although that was a pretty lucky trade for us.

[Grant77]

Do you guys think a major overhaul might be for the best?

 

I don't mean rebuild, but an overhaul; keeping centerpieces like Tulo, Martin and JD.

 

Saunders might be a decent DH/OF option going forward, but maybe not.

 

Our strength is CF, where I think it may make sense to sell sort of high on Pillar. And let Pompey play everyday. I would try to move Upton, too.

 

I may try to move either Happ or Estrada, if there is something really decent in return. Younger, more controllable pitching perhaps?

 

I see what happened to the Phillies when they got old overnight with bloated contracts.

 

I also saw what happened with the Yankees. Who seemed to sell everything, but look a ton stronger, short of their bullpen. And bullpens may be the easiest component to rebuild on a MLB team.

 

I wouldn't throw up if we went considerably younger (and cheaper, as a result) if it meant sustainable success, and perhaps the possibility of instant success. By that I mean I don't want to trade for lower minor talent. Kids ready for everyday action appeal to me. Like Travis, although that was a pretty lucky trade for us.

 

There is no impetus to rebuild like the Phillies when you have a core of young MLB players and a strong farm system. Making minor adjustments and remaining a playoff contender for the foreseeable future is far more palatable.

[Abomination]

Austin Barnes from the Dodgers should be trade target. Great minor league numbers, grades as a high end framer and has the versatility to play 2B and 3B as well.

 

The only way I could really see it happening would be if we took Ethier and his full salary off their hands, and gave them a good prospect on top of that. It might be worth it, but that's probably what it would take.

[BlueJaysGirl]

There is no impetus to rebuild like the Phillies when you have a core of young MLB players and a strong farm system. Making minor adjustments and remaining a playoff contender for the foreseeable future is far more palatable.

 

We also have a core of really old players, if all, or even some, are re-signed. Also, our farm is bottom 50%. IMO.

[RealAccountant]

It would be horrible to waste a rotation with 5 above average starters

[King]

For a guy entering his age 27 season with 41 MLB games under his belt? If they want us to take Ethier and that contract - adding Barnes isn't going to net them a "good" prospect. It probably shouldn't land them a bucket of balls.

 

Austin Barnes is very good and the Dodgers know it. He's an above average framer who has hit very well in the upper levels of the minors. The upside is obvious and the Dodgers aren't just going to give him away for a bucket of balls.

[Padapaxia]

As we all know the Blue Jays have holes to fill at 1B, DH, and 1 or 2 OF spots and the BP. My question is, is there anyone down on the farm ready and with the talent to fill any of those holes and be more then just a replacement level type player?

[Pendleton]

The only way I could really see it happening would be if we took Ethier and his full salary off their hands, and gave them a good prospect on top of that. It might be worth it, but that's probably what it would take.

 

No way, if we're taking Ethier than you have the wrong team adding a good prospect. In that case we would be looking at something along the lines of the Liriano trade.

[BlueJaysGirl]

As we all know the Blue Jays have holes to fill at 1B, DH, and 1 or 2 OF spots and the BP. My question is, is there anyone down on the farm ready and with the talent to fill any of those holes and be more then just a replacement level type player?

 

Tellez comes to mind.

[L54]

Tellez is not starting the year in Toronto. The Jays don't really have any players to fill those holes immediately unless you count guys like Danny Barnes and Matt Dermody as pen guys, but those aren't really the reinforcements you want to add there.

[Brownie19]

The only way I could really see it happening would be if we took Ethier and his full salary off their hands, and gave them a good prospect on top of that. It might be worth it, but that's probably what it would take.

 

Ethier + Barnes would be a decent target. I can't imagine it would cost a lot (certainly not a 'good' prospect). Barnes is interesting, but he'll be 27 next year with 41 career games under his belt. Ethier is similar to Reddick (LH platoon guy without huge K%) and you'd only have to commit for 1 or 2 years with him (vs. 4-5 years that Reddick might get). Ethier hasn't been very durable and is older - so there is risk there, but he's been a better hitter than Reddick.

[wk680]

Tellez is not starting the year in Toronto. The Jays don't really have any players to fill those holes immediately unless you count guys like Danny Barnes and Matt Dermody at the back end of the pen.

 

It seems people are kind of counting out Pompey. He had a pretty good year at AAA and gives the offensive versatility as a switch hitter with speed. My understanding is he bats better left-handed, which is what we need. Defensively he should certainly be an upgrade over Bautista and Saunders. If you bat him 9th and he can manage to get on, that is a nice situation to have his speed with the lineup turning over. If the Jays are not going to use him, maybe now is the time to package him in a trade deal

[Brownie19]

It seems people are kind of counting out Pompey. He had a pretty good year at AAA and gives the offensive versatility as a switch hitter with speed. My understanding is he bats better left-handed, which is what we need. Defensively he should certainly be an upgrade over Bautista and Saunders. If you bat him 9th and he can manage to get on, that is a nice situation to have his speed with the lineup turning over. If the Jays are not going to use him, maybe now is the time to package him in a trade deal

 

He actually trended in the wrong direction last year in AAA. K% up, BB% down, wRC+ down from 2015 AAA #'s. His defense was also bizarrely terrible at times.

 

If the FO had any confidence in him at all, I think you would have seen him with the big club when Jose got hurt (either the 1st or 2nd time).

[Grant77]

We also have a core of really old players, if all, or even some, are re-signed. Also, our farm is bottom 50%. IMO.

 

Every good team has old players. My point is that the Phillies didn't have a new up and coming core to build around like we do. Sanchez, Stroman, Osuna, Travis, Pillar, Pompey, Tellez. They also had some albatross contracts on the books and we have none. A rebuild isn't at all necessary.

[BTS]

Ethier + Barnes for Smoak is really the only framework I can see working. Smoak is an 8.4 M sunk cost. Ethier is owed 20.5M for one year and will probably project at like 1 win in a platoon role, so he's worth like -12M. A straight swap of the two has the Dodgers picking up like 4-5 in projected surplus value, so Barnes evens that out.

[L54]

It seems people are kind of counting out Pompey. He had a pretty good year at AAA and gives the offensive versatility as a switch hitter with speed. My understanding is he bats better left-handed, which is what we need. Defensively he should certainly be an upgrade over Bautista and Saunders. If you bat him 9th and he can manage to get on, that is a nice situation to have his speed with the lineup turning over. If the Jays are not going to use him, maybe now is the time to package him in a trade deal

 

The front office's complete lack of trust in him tells me more than anything else. Dalton Pompey playing a corner outfield spot seems really unsexy, even if he provides plus D. I hope the team can find a better option than him.

[Brownie19]

Ethier + Barnes for Smoak is really the only framework I can see working. Smoak is an 8.4 M sunk cost. Ethier is owed 20.5M for one year and will probably project at like 1 win in a platoon role, so he's worth like -12M. A straight swap of the two has the Dodgers picking up like 4-5 in projected surplus value, so Barnes evens that out.

 

Ethier was a 3 WAR player in 2015 with a 138 wRC+ That's probably the ceiling, but if he stays healthy (maybe by DH'ing more), isn't there a chance he can be a 120 wRC+ guy who doesn't kill you defensively in LF and give you 2-2.5 WAR with a bit of luck? He's a career 140 wRC+ hitter vs. RHP. I see him in the same tier as a Matt Holliday.

[Brownie19]

The front office's complete lack of trust in him tells me more than anything else. Dalton Pompey playing a corner outfield spot seems really unsexy, even if he provides plus D. I hope the team can find a better option than him.

 

Adam Eaton looks incredibly sexy in RF if you ask me.

[BTS]

Ethier was a 3 WAR player in 2015 with a 138 wRC+ That's probably the ceiling, but if he stays healthy (maybe by DH'ing more), isn't there a chance he can be a 120 wRC+ guy who doesn't kill you defensively in LF and give you 2-2.5 WAR with a bit of luck? He's a career 140 wRC+ hitter vs. RHP. I see him in the same tier as a Matt Holliday.

 

Yeah, I actually like Ethier a bit. I still think you'd project him at around a win, and cross your fingers that he's healthy and gives you 2. Would you do Smoak for Ethier straight up?

[Abomination]

Yeah, I actually like Ethier a bit. I still think you'd project him at around a win, and cross your fingers that he's healthy and gives you 2. Would you do Smoak for Ethier straight up?

 

Smoak for Ethier straight up is a no brainer imo. Ignoring the buyout, we'd be getting Ethier for basically 13.5M a year and filling a position of need.

[Brownie19]

Yeah, I actually like Ethier a bit. I still think you'd project him at around a win, and cross your fingers that he's healthy and gives you 2. Would you do Smoak for Ethier straight up?

 

You could say that's $14M for Either (assuming - errr, knowing Smoak is dead value) and a club option for 2018. It's similar to Saunders on a QO really. It certainly looks better if they include Barnes!

[glory]

If Pompey has options remaining (and I think he should have one left), then he will probably in AAA next season if he isn't traded. If they projected his defence to make up for his bat then I'm assuming they would have played him more, but even that isn't a lock. He could end up being a good player eventually but I don't see any possible way they can pencil him in to a corner spot before the season. He regressed in 2016.

[BTS]

Smoak for Ethier straight up is a no brainer imo. Ignoring the buyout, we'd be getting Ethier for basically 13.5M a year and filling a position of need.

 

Yeah, I'd probably do it. But I think the value is still a few million $ in favour of LA. I don't know if the difference is Barnes, but it should be something.

[L54]

Adam Eaton looks incredibly sexy in RF if you ask me.

 

Ya because he doesn't hit like Ryan Goins.

[glory]

This page has reminded me how awful the Smoak extension was.

[RealAccountant]

Maybe this is the year Smoak reaches his full potential as a blue chip prospect future mvp bat

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hahhahhahaahhaha he f***ing sucks

[BlueJaysGirl]

Every good team has old players. My point is that the Phillies didn't have a new up and coming core to build around like we do. Sanchez, Stroman, Osuna, Travis, Pillar, Pompey, Tellez. They also had some albatross contracts on the books and we have none. A rebuild isn't at all necessary.

 

We were the oldest team in the majors this season, with a fairly hefty payroll. If that stays status quo, we're the Phillies, circa 2014. Our farm is below average, and there is a dearth of position players in the upper minors. We're not in awful shape, but we're not in great shape.

 

Martin, Tulo and JB and/or EE (if signed long term) may prove to be albatross type contracts. That's a risk in signing an older player on the wrong side of 30.

[L54]

41 year old Dickey, 39 year old Grilli, 39 year old Benoit, 35 year old Bautista all push that number through the roof. I only expect one of those guys to be on the opening day roster 2017.