New/Better WAR?

GD · October 15, 2016

All time leaders:

[TABLE=width: 100%]

[TR]

[TH=bgcolor: #E9E9E9, align: left]RANK[/TH]

[TH=bgcolor: #E9E9E9, align: left]PLAYER (YRS, AGE)[/TH]

[TH=bgcolor: #E9E9E9, align: left]ZARP[/TH]

[TH=bgcolor: #E9E9E9, align: left]BATS[/TH]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]Sam Thompson+ (15)[/TD]

[TD]1.731[/TD]

[TD]L[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]Dan Brouthers+ (19)[/TD]

[TD]1.622[/TD]

[TD]L[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]3[/TD]

[TD]Ed Delahanty+ (16)[/TD]

[TD]1.614[/TD]

[TD]R[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]4[/TD]

[TD]Hugh Duffy+ (17)[/TD]

[TD]1.583[/TD]

[TD]R[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]5[/TD]

[TD]Cap Anson+ (27)[/TD]

[TD]1.576[/TD]

[TD]R[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]6[/TD]

[TD]Lou Gehrig+ (17)[/TD]

[TD]1.566[/TD]

[TD]L[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]7[/TD]

[TD]King Kelly+ (16)[/TD]

[TD]1.538[/TD]

[TD]R[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]8[/TD]

[TD]Harry Stovey (14)[/TD]

[TD]1.533[/TD]

[TD]R[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]9[/TD]

[TD]Jake Stenzel (9)[/TD]

[TD]1.517[/TD]

[TD]R[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]10[/TD]

[TD]Bill Lange (7)[/TD]

[TD]1.514[/TD]

[TD]R[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]11[/TD]

[TD]Tip O'Neill (10)[/TD]

[TD]1.506[/TD]

[TD]R[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]12[/TD]

[TD]Billy Hamilton+ (14)[/TD]

[TD]1.505[/TD]

[TD]L[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]13[/TD]

[TD]Bill Joyce (8)[/TD]

[TD]1.502[/TD]

[TD]L[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]14[/TD]

[TD]Joe DiMaggio+ (13)[/TD]

[TD]1.478[/TD]

[TD]R[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]15[/TD]

[TD]Buck Ewing+ (18)[/TD]

[TD]1.476[/TD]

[TD]R[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]16[/TD]

[TD]Babe Ruth+ (22)[/TD]

[TD]1.468[/TD]

[TD]L[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]17[/TD]

[TD]George Gore (14)[/TD]

[TD]1.45[/TD]

[TD]L[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]18[/TD]

[TD]Denny Lyons (13)[/TD]

[TD]1.449[/TD]

[TD]R[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]19[/TD]

[TD]Henry Larkin (10)[/TD]

[TD]1.443[/TD]

[TD]R[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]20[/TD]

[TD]Jim O'Rourke+ (23)[/TD]

[TD]1.438[/TD]

[TD]R

[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

Calculation/details: http://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/1127785

King · October 15, 2016

This is revolutionary

Laika · October 15, 2016

The only comment on the linked article is "like MLB needs more stats."

... I want to die...

Governator · October 15, 2016

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/zarp_active.shtml

Boxcar · October 15, 2016

All time leaders:

[TABLE=width: 100%]
[TR]
[TH=bgcolor: #E9E9E9, align: left]RANK[/TH]
[TH=bgcolor: #E9E9E9, align: left]PLAYER (YRS, AGE)[/TH]
[TH=bgcolor: #E9E9E9, align: left]ZARP[/TH]
[TH=bgcolor: #E9E9E9, align: left]BATS[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]Sam Thompson+ (15)[/TD]
[TD]1.731[/TD]
[TD]L[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]Dan Brouthers+ (19)[/TD]
[TD]1.622[/TD]
[TD]L[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]Ed Delahanty+ (16)[/TD]
[TD]1.614[/TD]
[TD]R[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]Hugh Duffy+ (17)[/TD]
[TD]1.583[/TD]
[TD]R[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]Cap Anson+ (27)[/TD]
[TD]1.576[/TD]
[TD]R[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]Lou Gehrig+ (17)[/TD]
[TD]1.566[/TD]
[TD]L[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]King Kelly+ (16)[/TD]
[TD]1.538[/TD]
[TD]R[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]Harry Stovey (14)[/TD]
[TD]1.533[/TD]
[TD]R[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]Jake Stenzel (9)[/TD]
[TD]1.517[/TD]
[TD]R[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]Bill Lange (7)[/TD]
[TD]1.514[/TD]
[TD]R[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]Tip O'Neill (10)[/TD]
[TD]1.506[/TD]
[TD]R[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]Billy Hamilton+ (14)[/TD]
[TD]1.505[/TD]
[TD]L[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]Bill Joyce (8)[/TD]
[TD]1.502[/TD]
[TD]L[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]Joe DiMaggio+ (13)[/TD]
[TD]1.478[/TD]
[TD]R[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]Buck Ewing+ (18)[/TD]
[TD]1.476[/TD]
[TD]R[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD]Babe Ruth+ (22)[/TD]
[TD]1.468[/TD]
[TD]L[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]George Gore (14)[/TD]
[TD]1.45[/TD]
[TD]L[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]Denny Lyons (13)[/TD]
[TD]1.449[/TD]
[TD]R[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]Henry Larkin (10)[/TD]
[TD]1.443[/TD]
[TD]R[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]Jim O'Rourke+ (23)[/TD]
[TD]1.438[/TD]
[TD]R
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Calculation/details: http://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/1127785

This is incredible

Holy f*** Zaun is such a massive tool.

Krylian · October 15, 2016

Zarp?

Zoinks!!

Olerud363 · October 15, 2016

This is incredible

Holy f*** Zaun is such a massive tool.

I was hoping it would routinely show players like Joe Carter, and Eric Hosmer as being better than Barry Bonds and Mike Trout.

Unfortunately Trout and Bonds, routinely score and drive in enough runs that this doesn't happen.

Though I think Hosmer beat Trout in 2015... and by my calculations they are really close the last couple years

It does bring Carter.Hosmer much closer to Trout/Bonds... so in that sense it does it;s job...

Trout + Bonds career WAR - like 200

Carter + Hosmer - I don't know <20??

Zaun System - Trout/Bonds - 1.15 or something

Zaun System - Carter/Hosmer - 1.00 or something

Captain Adama · October 15, 2016

Jeff Francouer is a future HoF.

RealAccountant · October 15, 2016

What about this season. Who led the league I'm Greg Zauns WAR

Governator · October 15, 2016

What about this season. Who led the league I'm Greg Zauns WAR

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/zarp_leagues.shtml

Olerud363 · October 15, 2016

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/zarp_leagues.shtml

It just doesn't mess up things as drastically as one would like...

Sure Joe Carter wins a ZARP crown, but so does Trout, and Bonds has three.

Jimcanuck · October 15, 2016

It just doesn't mess up things as drastically as one would like...

Sure Joe Carter wins a ZARP crown, but so does Trout, and Bonds has three.

Any old formula using rbi and runs is going to be not too bad. Not perfect by any means.

Zaun calls this his run production stat, so obviously not a broad based stat like WAR.

But give me 8 hrs, if I cared enough, and I'll come up with a validated run production stat that uses baserunning, team stats, park factor, etc. I'm the Bill James of pavement after all.

Olerud363 · October 15, 2016

I could easily see Grant arguing in favour of ZARP.

Grant - "Even Dave Cameron would admit there isn't much difference between ZARP and WAR. Look at the yearly ZARP leaders. Trout has won a title, Bonds won a few. Just as one would expect using an advanced metric. In fact ZARP is probably a better metric to use for postseason. The guys who win ZARP titles, often go on to have postseason success. Gary Carter, Joe Carter, Paul Molitor, Scott Rolen, Albert Pujols. All these guys won a ZARP title, then went on to get World Series rings. I doubt that is coincidence."

GD · October 15, 2016

Any old formula using rbi and runs is going to be not too bad. Not perfect by any means.

Zaun calls this his run production stat, so obviously not a broad based stat like WAR.

But give me 8 hrs, if I cared enough, and I'll come up with a validated run production stat that uses baserunning, team stats, park factor, etc. I'm the Bill James of pavement after all.

Do it! You can publish on my blog

Jimcanuck · October 15, 2016

Do it! You can publish on my blog

no f***ing way am I boosting your dumn blog

RealAccountant · October 15, 2016

I like this formula.

(RS + RBI ) - HR / Games played

How do we reverse it for pitching

GD · October 15, 2016

no f***ing way am I boosting your dumn blog

"boosting"

This seems optimistic

Boxcar · October 15, 2016

"boosting"

This seems optimistic

Could have just said delusional.

Grant77 · October 15, 2016

Kelly Gruber won the ZARP title in 1990. That's hilarious.

KevinGregg · October 15, 2016

Any old formula using rbi and runs is going to be not too bad. Not perfect by any means.

Zaun calls this his run production stat, so obviously not a broad based stat like WAR.

But give me 8 hrs, if I cared enough, and I'll come up with a validated run production stat that uses baserunning, team stats, park factor, etc. I'm the Bill James of pavement after all.

I would love to see this.

King · October 15, 2016

Guy is clueless

CHRIS · October 15, 2016

Any metric that doesn't include sock height is worthless, IMO.

GD · October 15, 2016

Could have just said delusional.

Without a trigger warning?

BigBounceyBlueBalls · October 16, 2016

New War / Better War.... All we are saying ... Is Give Peace a chance!!!!

Dick_Pole · October 16, 2016

What I like best about Zaun is that he is pretty much the antithesis of everything he values. A decent defensive catcher who could get on base. Like Hitler campaigning on the superiority of blond-haired blue-eyed people.

Wouldn't it be great if Zaun was an active player.

Jays FO: "Look at all these s***** stats of yours, we'll offer you a 10-year, $15M contract"

Zaun: "Geez, I better take that, I suck"

Olerud363 · October 16, 2016

What I like best about Zaun is that he is pretty much the antithesis of everything he values. A decent defensive catcher who could get on base. Like Hitler campaigning on the superiority of blond-haired blue-eyed people.

Wouldn't it be great if Zaun was an active player.

Jays FO: "Look at all these s***** stats of yours, we'll offer you a 10-year, $15M contract"
Zaun: "Geez, I better take that, I suck"

This is so common

Joe Morgan walked 120 times a year hit for crazy power and Mike Trout like WAR -- Joe Morgan thinks he was good cuz he did the little things right and was clutch

Harold Reynolds was a nice little player, decent walk rate, 80 walks one year... 2-4 WAR a year.

rydermike · October 17, 2016

The math teacher in me is getting at his incorrect formula with the lack of brackets. Even though I know exactly what he means lol. Runs+RBI-HR/GP. By math, you would do the HR divided by games first.

99 runs 42 home runs 127 rbi 160 gp. Therefore according to BEDMAS, Encarnacion's ZARP is 99+127-42/160 = 99+127-0.26 =225.74 (instead of 1.15)

FrozenRopes · October 17, 2016

The math teacher in me is getting at his incorrect formula with the lack of brackets. Even though I know exactly what he means lol. Runs+RBI-HR/GP. By math, you would do the HR divided by games first.

99 runs 42 home runs 127 rbi 160 gp. Therefore according to BEDMAS, Encarnacion's ZARP is 99+127-42/160 = 99+127-0.26 =225.74 (instead of 1.15)

I like that... how does it work when you start comparing someone like Cris Carter to a guy like Votto

Governator · October 17, 2016

The math teacher in me is getting at his incorrect formula with the lack of brackets. Even though I know exactly what he means lol. Runs+RBI-HR/GP. By math, you would do the HR divided by games first.

99 runs 42 home runs 127 rbi 160 gp. Therefore according to BEDMAS, Encarnacion's ZARP is 99+127-42/160 = 99+127-0.26 =225.74 (instead of 1.15)

Ah good ol' BEDMAS, so easily forgotten.

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