Does Happ have a shot at the Cy Young?

[harvey16]

If Happ gets to 20 wins does he have a legit shot at winning the CY Young? Who would of every thought at the start of the season he would even be in this conversation.

[SweetSmellingChacin]

He's got a shot. But Porcello is probably the favourite, especially if Boston wins division.

[BTS]

Has there been a more underwhelming 20-game winner in the last 10 years? Weaver a few years ago I guess.

[L54]

He probably finishes top 5 but he won't win.

[Pendleton]

Unless I'm missing someone I'd say there is a group of three starters (Porcello/Kluber/Happ) who have pulled away from the rest, and likely Britton to consider as well.

 

He has a chance but would really have to finish strong, otherwise I think he falls just short.

[BTS]

Unless I'm missing someone I'd say there is a group of three starters (Porcello/Kluber/Happ) who have pulled away from the rest, and likely Britton to consider as well.

 

He has a chance but would really have to finish strong, otherwise I think he falls just short.

 

I think Tanaka is right there too.

[CHRIS]

Has there been a more underwhelming 20-game winner in the last 10 years? Weaver a few years ago I guess.

 

When did Rich Helling win 20?

[SweetSmellingChacin]

All things considered, as good as he's been, you can make the argument that he's not even the Cy Young of his own pitching staff.

[CHRIS]

When did Rich Helling win 20?

 

Helling won 20 in 1998. Christ I'm old.

[Dick_Pole]

Bob Welch going 27-6 in 1990 is the one that takes the prize for baseball fandom career.

 

EDIT: Yup, just double checked BR and Welch's 27 is the high water mark (along with Steve Carlton in 1972) since McLain's 31 wins.

[Dr. Dinger]

Absolutely not.

[BTS]

When did Rich Helling win 20?

 

Wo, Texas, right? I hadn't heard that name in probably 15 years.

[Olerud363]

Bob Welch going 27-6 in 1990 is the one that takes the prize for baseball fandom career.

 

How is everbody forgetting Jack Morris - 21-6 4.16 in 1993??

 

Oh wait... he won 20 with grit and clutchness and pitching to the score...

 

No. He sucked in the playoffs that year (despite Jays winning World Series) so it was obvious he had no grit.

 

And grit did not help when he sucked beyond sucking in 1993.

[Dick_Pole]

How is everbody forgetting Jack Morris - 21-6 4.16 in 1993??

 

Oh wait... he won 20 with grit and clutchness and pitching to the score...

 

No. He sucked in the playoffs that year (despite Jays winning World Series) so it was obvious he had no grit.

 

And grit did not help when he sucked beyond sucking in 1993.

 

Old-timers still sore that Dave Stieb's rival so easily accomplished the one thing Stieb couldn't do in 14 seasons with the Jays.

[Brownie19]

He won't unless he starts pitching like he did in July and August again soon. Jays have no shot in the playoffs unless he does either.

[Olerud363]

Old-timers still sore that Dave Stieb's rival so easily accomplished the one thing Stieb couldn't do in 14 seasons with the Jays.

 

At least according to fangraphs, Happ will be one of the weakest ever. He has a lower WAR then all the guys mentioned in this thread, even Helling and Morris

[Governator]

I feel like Chris Sale is the Mike Trout of pitchers in the AL with regards to Cy Young votes. Last year he had the lowest xFIP, lowest FIP and highest K/9 in the AL, basically tied in WAR with Price and gets 4th place voting. So yea, wins matter Happ has a chance.

[Brownie19]

Bob Welch going 27-6 in 1990 is the one that takes the prize for baseball fandom career.

 

EDIT: Yup, just double checked BR and Welch's 27 is the high water mark (along with Steve Carlton in 1972) since McLain's 31 wins.

 

McLain was actually good though. 1.96 ERA, 7.1 WAR. Welch won 27 games and posted a WAR of 1.8. Even Morris posted a 3.7 WAR season when he won 21 with the Jays in '92.

[Brownie19]

At least according to fangraphs, Happ will be one of the weakest ever. He has a lower WAR then all the guys mentioned in this thread, even Helling and Morris

 

Not Welch. Welch is the clear winner.

[Brownie19]

Side note - I can't believe Morris made the HOF.

 

Career 1.78 K/BB ratio. Career BB/9 of 3.27.......that's turrrible. In spite of all his competitive walks, Sanchez's career BB/9 is lower than that!!! Career K/9 of 5.83, which isn't much more than what Jamie Moyer and Mark Buehrle put up for their career.

[Governator]

Side note - I can't believe Morris made the HOF.

 

Career 1.78 K/BB ratio. Career BB/9 of 3.27.......that's turrrible. In spite of all his competitive walks, Sanchez's career BB/9 is lower than that!!! Career K/9 of 5.83, which isn't much more than what Jamie Moyer and Mark Buehrle put up for their career.

 

He didn't make the HOF...

[SweetSmellingChacin]

I feel like Chris Sale is the Mike Trout of pitchers in the AL with regards to Cy Young votes. Last year he had the lowest xFIP, lowest FIP and highest K/9 in the AL, basically tied in WAR with Price and gets 4th place voting. So yea, wins matter Happ has a chance.

 

A lot voters still put too much importance on WINS/ERA.

[Brownie19]

He didn't make the HOF...

 

Well thank god!!!!

 

(I'm a turd - sorry guys. One of those days).

[MunenoriKawasakiMVP]

I feel like Chris Sale is the Mike Trout of pitchers in the AL with regards to Cy Young votes. Last year he had the lowest xFIP, lowest FIP and highest K/9 in the AL, basically tied in WAR with Price and gets 4th place voting. So yea, wins matter Happ has a chance.

 

That's ********. Last year he was very underwhelming and in no way close to Keuchel. His ERA was almost 1 higher than Keuchel and who the f*** cares about FIP when evaluating pitchers season.

[Jonn]

I honestly think he did but had a few bad starts in a row. If his last 2 starts are tremendous maybe. But if they are going to pick someone with rediculous amount of wins it would be Porcello because he has the innings as well.

[jays_fever]

Happ finishes top 5, no way a 20 game winner with 5 or so loses doesnt get votes. I'd laugh if he even receives a second place vote

[Brownie19]

I honestly think he did but had a few bad starts in a row. If his last 2 starts are tremendous maybe. But if they are going to pick someone with rediculous amount of wins it would be Porcello because he has the innings as well.

 

He still has a shot if his last 2 starts are great (moving him to 21-4) and Porcello's are s*** (leaving him at 20-6) as that will leave their ERA's near the same.

[Brownie19]

That's ********. Last year he was very underwhelming and in no way close to Keuchel. His ERA was almost 1 higher than Keuchel and who the f*** cares about FIP when evaluating pitchers season.

 

Educated people.

[Governator]

That's ********. Last year he was very underwhelming and in no way close to Keuchel. His ERA was almost 1 higher than Keuchel and who the f*** cares about FIP when evaluating pitchers season.

 

Sounds like a typical naive Munenori Kawasaki fan. Sale was arguably the best pitcher in the AL last year. When you strikeout the most batters per 9 that's usually not looked at as an underwhelming year lol.

 

I'm not suggesting Keuchel didn't deserve of it, it's just pitchers have a very hard time getting Cy Young votes without wins. The only pitcher I can think of was King Felix with a .500 record, he is the absolute rare exception to the rule.

[CBlake]

McLain was actually good though. 1.96 ERA, 7.1 WAR. Welch won 27 games and posted a WAR of 1.8. Even Morris posted a 3.7 WAR season when he won 21 with the Jays in '92.

I for one hate when WAR is attributed to a player of days gone by. Simply put was War being talked then. WAR is not even a real stat as people have different views of it.

 

On the issue of Happ, if had 22-23 wins he would be a favourite.