Atkins and Shapiro (and LaCava) appreciation and transaction review

[AttaBoy]

Given the off-day, why not do some recap of Atkins/Shapiro transactions? These guys have found gold and silver in places we'd least expect. Most of their original moves were met with some criticism and as it turns out nearly all of their moves have panned out and then some.

 

Happ signing - A+ - Happ has been sensational and better than anyone could have predicted.

 

Estrada signing - A+ - Nobody could have predicted he wouldn't regress, instead he got even better.

 

Grilli for Ratcliffe - Grilli has been revelation and energy booster.

 

Biagini in the Rule 5 Draft - A+ - Biagini (the weirdo), like Grilli, has been revelation, in times of desperate need.

 

Not signing Price - A - Price has not had a great season by his standards and that money can and will be better spent elsewhere.

 

Revere for Storen for Benoit - B+ - Storen seemed like a great trade at the time to sure up the bp, just didn't work out. Given that Revere has sucked and Storen sucked that trade was neither good nor bad. But flipping Storen for Benoit has really worked out.

 

Upton for cash and stuff - - Didn't look good at first but the guy has worked out, and we got him for next to nothing.

 

Liriano for Hutch - B - Hard to evaluate this one still but I think everyone agrees we needed better SP depth and Liriano has that potential.

 

Floyd signing - B - Floyd was a fairly solid bp option before he got injured, unfortunately.

 

Hendriks for Chavez for Bolsinger - C+ - Liked the initial trade on paper, Chavez seemed fairly unlucky in his time here. But Bolsinger seems like great SP depth so I still like the end result even though Bolsinger is not currently having an impact on the major league club.

 

Navarro for some dude - C - Better backup catcher than the dud Thole. Also, seems like a great guy and good clubhouse presence.

 

Feldman from Astros - C - Seems decent for mop-up and back of the bullpen duties.

 

Venditte claimed off waivers - D+ - This guy ended up being more of a gimmick then anything else, but he did fill some innings when when most of our bp was s*** so I'm not giving this transaction a total fail.

 

Other neutral moves - Junior Lake (depth), Morales (barely pitched, injured), Kratz (depth), Copeland (depth), some others (don't care to report on).

 

=============

 

Overall grade: B+

Edited September 2, 2016 by AttaBoy

[AdamLindsMom]

Hendriks for Chavez for Bolsinger - C+

 

What? This trade was horrendous.

[AttaBoy]

Hendriks for Chavez for Bolsinger - C+

 

What? This trade was horrendous.

 

Hendriks hasn't had a great year despite nice looking peripherals. The guy had been pretty bad the years before so Jays were selling high on him (the best way to trade), I can't see how this is anything worse than a neutral transaction now that we have Bolsinger who could be really good SP depth.

[Governator]

Pretty sure Tony LaCava signed Happ and Estrada and Barney was an AA acquisition last Sept.

[AttaBoy]

Pretty sure Tony LaCava signed Happ and Estrada and Barney was an AA acquisition last Sept.

 

Shapiro was prez, but I guess some credit can be given to the interim GM. My mistake on Barney, thought for sure he came later.

[Grant77]

Pretty sure Tony LaCava signed Happ and Estrada and Barney was an AA acquisition last Sept.

 

That's correct. Grilli and Biagini have been their best moves and their one big deal (Liriano/Hutch) looks good enough so far.

 

They haven't really done much other than some minor tinkering and that was probably the best thing to do in my opinion. You could argue that not signing EE was a mistake, but the opposite is true for Bautista. If we can continue to build minor league depth and make small, smart additions then I like the team going forward.

[L54]

Hendriks hasn't had a great year despite nice looking peripherals. The guy had been pretty bad the years before so Jays were selling high on him (the best way to trade), I can't see how this is anything worse than a neutral transaction now that we have Bolsinger who could be really good SP depth.

 

If you're going to look at these moves it has to be independently. Hendriks for Chavez was atrocious. Just because they salvaged some SP depth out of it doesn't mean you can excuse the initial trade.

[z3r0s]

Why is the trade Liriano for Hutch... a few prospects included there that really make the difference.

[AttaBoy]

If you're going to look at these moves it has to be independently. Hendriks for Chavez was atrocious. Just because they salvaged some SP depth out of it doesn't mean you can excuse the initial trade.

 

Chavez was both a successful starter and successful reliever, so he provided an additional area of depth as a starter. Hendriks had one good year in relief while being a s***** starter for years. Plus projections say they are comparable.

[Candy Maldonado]

but who was Upton

[AttaBoy]

Why is the trade Liriano for Hutch... a few prospects included there that really make the difference.

 

I don't know what to tell you, if you want all the details go to google.com?

[L54]

Chavez was both a successful starter and successful reliever, so he provided an additional area of depth as a starter. Hendriks had one good year in relief while being a s***** starter for years. Plus projections say they are comparable.

 

Hendriks being a s***** starter has nothing to do with how he should be valued. Tons of elite bullpen guys are failed starters. Even with comparable projections one is a free agent to be and the other has 3 years remaining.

 

If we are going to review transactions, we have the benefit of using hindsight. That move was pretty meh at the time, and looks awful now.

[Pendleton]

I don't know what to tell you, if you want all the details go to google.com?

 

I think you misread the question. Pretty sure he was asking why you just have it listed as Hutch for Liriano when the two prospects we were received were obviously a main driving factor in the Jays agreeing to the deal.

[worldchamps2016]

Nothing to complain about really.Aside from a couple minor blips(Storen,Morales,come to mind)almost everything they've done to date has worked out in their favor.

They've made vast improvements to the bench and bullpen while giving very little in return.IMO what they've done is really all that could be expected without giving up major pieces and/or boosting payroll significantly.

I would have loved to have seen a Boone Logan type lefty added to the pen,but other than that,I don't see where they could have made as significant strides and not given up much more than they have.

[Dick_Pole]

Strange that you completely miss the point about the Liriano/Hutchison trade as others have already mentioned. That was by far this regime's best trade so far and deserving of an A.

[Jonn]

Strange that you completely miss the point about the Liriano/Hutchison trade as others have already mentioned. That was by far this regime's best trade so far and deserving of an A.

 

He must have believed King when he said Harold Ramirez was dead.

[sawyerford]

The liriano for hutch was super good.

 

 

Shapiro is a wizard getting mcguire and ramirez for...hutch

[Rusty_Savage]

These guys are good

[gbill2004]

In Shartkins we trust.

[BTS]

Only two mistakes for me are the weird Hendriks trade, and being content with Carrera as the 4th OF going into the season. I loved the overall direction of the offseason: patch holes with short free agent deals and don't borrow more from the team's future.

[TheHurl]

My favourite Shatkins grade...Not AA

[puphood]

Shapiro/Atkins

Morales D-

Floyd D

Hendricks for Chavez D

Not resigning Chubby D and then going out picking up the rest of his contract in Aug.

Signing Storen D

Storen for Benoit A+

Biagini rule Five A+++

Grilli A+++

Me thinks LaCava gets credit for input on Happ and Estrada

[glory]

Good: Happ, Estrada, Biagini, Barney, Grilli, Upton (Jays paying a reasonable $)

Bad: Chavez, Storen, Smoak extension, Morales

Wait and see: Liriano

Neither good or bad: Feldman, Benoit, Navarro

 

This front office knew where the Jays sat on the win curve and made short term incremental improvements that have made a difference without harming the farm system. Hell, they made the team better this season while actually improving the farm simultaneously (Ramirez and McGuire). Regimes will always have a few s***** moves here and there but as long as the good outweighs the bad and the overall philosophy is right, then no complaints. The Jays are in good hands.

[Governator]

Honestly, Revere for Storen wasn't a bad move. Both GMs were trying to fulfill a need and it didn't make us any worse or better, it was just unfortunate that he sucked. Storen was replacing Mark Lowe who has the highest ERA of qualified Relievers in baseball. In other words, it could have been even worse if we signed Lowe and didn't move Revere, both in results and by paying a lot of money for OF bench depth.

[BTS]

Honestly, Revere for Storen wasn't a bad move. Both GMs were trying to fulfill a need and it didn't make us any worse or better, it was just unfortunate that he sucked. Storen was replacing Mark Lowe who has the highest ERA of qualified Relievers in baseball. In other words, it could have been even worse if we signed Lowe and didn't move Revere, both in results and by paying a lot of money for OF bench depth.

 

Yeah, there was nothing wrong with that move. There was no reason to believe that either player was going to fall off a cliff. Although, I do believe that if both Revere and Storen played to their projections, Revere would have been more valuable to this team, and IMO that was obvious at the time.

[Governator]

Yeah, there was nothing wrong with that move. There was no reason to believe that either player was going to fall off a cliff. Although, I do believe that if both Revere and Storen played to their projections, Revere would have been more valuable to this team, and IMO that was obvious at the time.

 

 

I think if Revere split time with Saunders, collectively they wouldn't put up the value that Saunders has for us all season. Of course, that's in hindsight though.

[GreekFatAss]

Just the fact that they will admit and correct their mistakes is big.

 

It also goes to show the genius in their risks too that they are short term enough to get out from under them in the first place.

[BTS]

I think if Revere split time with Saunders, collectively they wouldn't put up the value that Saunders has for us all season. Of course, that's in hindsight though.

 

I meant as a 4th OF type. Carrera has been replacement-level over almost 300 PA and then there was the Junior Lake debacle, and there was always the option of DHing Bautista/Saunders if the team had a capable OF replacement. Pre-2016 Revere likely has 1-2 wins without taking playing time away from Saunders.

 

I do think the situation has been corrected with Upton though.

[HERPDERP]

Good: Happ, Estrada, Biagini, Barney, Grilli, Upton (Jays paying a reasonable $)

Bad: Chavez, Storen, Smoak extension, Morales

Wait and see: Liriano

Neither good or bad: Feldman, Benoit, Navarro

 

This front office knew where the Jays sat on the win curve and made short term incremental improvements that have made a difference without harming the farm system. Hell, they made the team better this season while actually improving the farm simultaneously (Ramirez and McGuire). Regimes will always have a few s***** moves here and there but as long as the good outweighs the bad and the overall philosophy is right, then no complaints. The Jays are in good hands.

 

The great thing about the bad moves is that they are largely short-term moves. And even with Hendriks, at least it was just a reliever.

[pickoff22]

The Happ and Estrada moves were being worked on/discussed during AA's tenor, so I can't give them full credit for those.

 

As a whole they've done fine....good even....despite the odd Chavez trade and the odd failed Jay Bruce trade. Personally I'm most impressed with the creativity of the Liriano trade and how it address current big league needs and added farm depth.