JFL19 (2-0) GDT: Theee Toronto Bluejays (10-10) vs Chicago White Sox (13-6) 7.07pm

[BTS]

The bullpen has given up 6 of those runs and that's just from 2 games and FIP is directly related to strikeouts. He hasn't pitched like an ace but he hasn't been terrible.

 

What the f*** are you even arguing? He has an ERA over 4. He's pitching like a guy that should have an ERA over 4. Back rotation starters have ERAs over 4. He's pitched like a back rotation starter. I think we can all agree that he's better than this.

[Belliss101]

Sanchez to the bullpen please. Let Hutch start.

[Daniel Labude]

What the f*** are you even arguing? He has an ERA over 4. He's pitching like a guy that should have an ERA over 4. Back rotation starters have ERAs over 4. He's pitched like a back rotation starter. I think we can all agree that he's better than this.

 

Take out 7 runs and what is his ERA?...that's what I am talking about.

[THANOS]

What the hell is up with Stroman? It's only five starts, but he's been a 4th or 5th starter caliber to far. He's too good for this to continue much longer.

 

To go from nearly 11 K/9 over 180 IP in the minors to 4.75 K/9 now is too massive of a change to be completely pinned to the competition upgrade in the majors.

 

Given that his stuff hasn't changed, it's obvious that this has to do with his approach.

[RealAccountant]

Sanchez to the bullpen please. Let Hutch start.

 

As much as I like it, this is what needs to be done. We need Sanchez/Osuna in the backend, or we are on course to blow 20-25 games this year

[BTS]

Take out 7 runs and what is his ERA?...that's what I am talking about.

 

Congrats... you've just stumbled on DIPS! His xFIP is over 4.

[el duque]

Sanchez to the bullpen please. Let Hutch start.

here is an interesting idea, at least we can ensure the games we are already winning

[BigCecil]

Just watched end of game on PVR. Stro let down by the pen but its getting too familiar with him falling behind nibbling the bottom of the zone. BB and BABIP luck. Rinse and Repeat. Throw the f***ing 4 S upstairs some more and get some Ks...not dribbling f***ing ground balls.

 

Cecil just ain't Cecil...he isn't getting the swing and miss on his breaking ball yet. Liked our pen to start season but its been a train wreck overall.

 

Brutal. Doesn't get easier tomorrow. Cant wait to watch Thole, Carerra and Goins flail against Sale.

[THANOS]

https://sports.vice.com/ca/article/how-discovering-a-sinker-changed-everything-for-marcus-stroman

 

"I'm a completely different pitcher than I was for the first 23 and a half years of my life," says Stroman, who must have started pitching at a very tender age. "I was a four-seam guy who had trouble getting to the sixth, seventh, eighth innings. It would be five, six innings, high strikeouts, homers, fly-ball guy. And now I'm the complete opposite."

 

Now he aims to pitch to contact, and the sinker, when it's working, often induces weak contact. Indeed, in the seven regular-season starts since he came back from knee surgery last September, he has averaged 12 ground-ball outs. In his first start this year, he had 15.

 

 

His four-seam fastball, which he rarely throws now, required more precise command, especially for a pitcher like Stroman, who "lives on the corners," as Mookie Betts observed. The sinker allows him greater margin for error.

 

I've read that previously, and that's why I pin a lot of the blame to Stroman currently.

[Belliss101]

Just watched end of game on PVR. Stro let down by the pen but its getting too familiar with him falling behind nibbling the bottom of the zone. BB and BABIP luck. Rinse and Repeat. Throw the f***ing 4 S upstairs some more and get some Ks...not dribbling f***ing ground balls.

 

Cecil just ain't Cecil...he isn't getting the swing and miss on his breaking ball yet. Liked our pen to start season but its been a train wreck overall.

 

Brutal. Doesn't get easier tomorrow. Cant wait to watch Thole, Carerra and Goins flail against Sale.

 

If Carrera is in the lineup tomorrow I give up. No way he should be in against Sale.

 

Also, if Martin still isn't ready, just DL him. We can't keep going with a damn 2 man bench. It's stupid.

[intentional wok]

Just watched end of game on PVR. Stro let down by the pen but its getting too familiar with him falling behind nibbling the bottom of the zone. BB and BABIP luck. Rinse and Repeat. Throw the f***ing 4 S upstairs some more and get some Ks...not dribbling f***ing ground balls.

 

Cecil just ain't Cecil...he isn't getting the swing and miss on his breaking ball yet. Liked our pen to start season but its been a train wreck overall.

 

Brutal. Doesn't get easier tomorrow. Cant wait to watch Thole, Carerra and Goins flail against Sale.

 

The nibbling is infuriating. Just go at guys with a 4-run lead. Then he "wears his emotions on his sleeve" like an entitled child even though he created the situation.

[o2cui2i]

The nibbling is infuriating. Just go at guys with a 4-run lead. Then he "wears his emotions on his sleeve" like an entitled child even though he created the situation.

 

if he had simply let the ball going past get to Tulo it was a double play and inning is over, but he was too jacked and risked injury blowing the play. his adrenaline got the better of him.

[BigCecil]

The nibbling is infuriating. Just go at guys with a 4-run lead. Then he "wears his emotions on his sleeve" like an entitled child even though he created the situation.

 

Exactly. f***. He has enough movement and great D. Just f***ing rear back and throw the ball elevating sometimes with that lead. I appreciate locating as much as the next fan, but the 2 seamer isn't the be all end all. I want to see him be more aggressive in the zone and if he gets beat sometimes, so be it. Cecil let him down but he left the situation out there with a huge lead. That's not front end starting.

[THANOS]

The nibbling is infuriating. Just go at guys with a 4-run lead. Then he "wears his emotions on his sleeve" like an entitled child even though he created the situation.

 

Yep, this nibbling ******** worked last September because opposing teams didn't expect it and his control actually was pinpoint, so he didn't miss the corners.

 

Now that teams have the book on him, they sit 2SM and BABIP him around the field. It's incredibly frustrating because his stuff is nasty and should play better than this.

 

He has similar stuff to Jake Odorizzi (only with much better velocity) and should be executing his pitches in the same way. Their MiLB stats are very similar, and they have the same pitch selection, only Jake has actually executed the same way he did in the minors with a natural regression due to the competition, while Stroman has become a completely different pitcher and is now being BABIP'd to death as a result of it.

[Terminator]

It's not that Stroman is nibbling though is it? IMO it's that he is showing no variation in his location whatsoever. Everything is low, low, low and the hitters can key in on that. He needs to mix it up more. It's fine to go low but when you do it so often that hitters can completely ignore the upper half of the zone it's going to be easier for them to key in on every pitch.

 

He wasn't throwing low as often last year as he is this year. They showed a heat map before the game and nearly everything was in the bottom half of the zone or lower.

[Boxcar]

The nibbling is infuriating. Just go at guys with a 4-run lead. Then he "wears his emotions on his sleeve" like an entitled child even though he created the situation.

 

I'm with you. Stroman is annoying as f***. Seems to think he's got s*** all figured out or something. There's a point where confidence is good but I'm getting a vibe that Stroman is overconfident. He needs to actually research this pitch to contact bs and learn that it has never worked with any pitching staff that's adopted it in the modern era. Does he not see how he will give up more hits? What good is it if you throw more innings but they are mediocre?

 

He's too talented to waste like this and it's really pissing me off. f***, why don't we go hire Rick Anderson as pitching coach while we're at it?

[Daniel Labude]

I'm with you. Stroman is annoying as f***. Seems to think he's got s*** all figured out or something. There's a point where confidence is good but I'm getting a vibe that Stroman is overconfident. He needs to actually research this pitch to contact bs and learn that it has never worked with any pitching staff that's adopted it in the modern era. Does he not see how he will give up more hits? What good is it if you throw more innings but they are mediocre?

 

He's too talented to waste like this and it's really pissing me off. f***, why don't we go hire Rick Anderson as pitching coach while we're at it?

 

But the problem isn't solely with him...its the coaches that are pushing it as well.

[Daniel Labude]

It's not that Stroman is nibbling though is it? IMO it's that he is showing no variation in his location whatsoever. Everything is low, low, low and the hitters can key in on that. He needs to mix it up more. It's fine to go low but when you do it so often that hitters can completely ignore the upper half of the zone it's going to be easier for them to key in on every pitch.

 

He wasn't throwing low as often last year as he is this year. They showed a heat map before the game and nearly everything was in the bottom half of the zone or lower.

 

Someone needs to sit him down and say start using the 4 seam fastball, then in the offseason perfect the changeup. Would make a huge difference

[intentional wok]

Like, the seventh is your last inning. At that point just blow guys away. Wonder if Gibby tells him the Sox aren't getting a fourth go at him, so Eaton is the cut off. Just K whoever is left.

 

The same pitch to contact crowd probably wonder how the Royals singled their way to a World Series.

[burlingtonbandit]

It's not that Stroman is nibbling though is it? IMO it's that he is showing no variation in his location whatsoever. Everything is low, low, low and the hitters can key in on that. He needs to mix it up more. It's fine to go low but when you do it so often that hitters can completely ignore the upper half of the zone it's going to be easier for them to key in on every pitch.

 

He wasn't throwing low as often last year as he is this year. They showed a heat map before the game and nearly everything was in the bottom half of the zone or lower.

 

He threw a few cutters up and in to LHB and it worked really well. Even threw a 4 seam with 2 strikes up in the zone for a K in the 3rd I believe. Problem was Thole's gamecalling was terrible and Stroman actually had to shake multiple times to even get to those pitches.

 

Part of the blame has to go on the FO and coaching staff as well. Its their job to communicated with the players an effective gameplan and so far it seems like we've seen nothing but sinkers down. It might actually be a good thing he's struggling a little bit to open his eyes that he needs to add a wrinkle to get hitters out more often.

[THANOS]

He threw a few cutters up and in to LHB and it worked really well. Even threw a 4 seam with 2 strikes up in the zone for a K in the 3rd I believe. Problem was Thole's gamecalling was terrible and Stroman actually had to shake multiple times to even get to those pitches.

 

Part of the blame has to go on the FO and coaching staff as well. Its their job to communicated with the players an effective gameplan and so far it seems like we've seen nothing but sinkers down. It might actually be a good thing he's struggling a little bit to open his eyes that he needs to add a wrinkle to get hitters out more often.

 

We can only hope that's what happens, but knowing the coaching staff and Stroman's stubborness, the message from this outing will be, "it's ok kid, you'll get 'em next time, just keep those balls down".

[burlingtonbandit]

We can only hope that's what happens, but knowing the coaching staff and Stroman's stubborness, the message from this outing will be, "it's ok kid, you'll get 'em next time, just keep those balls down".

 

Someone from the FO should be communicating the message to the coaching staff then. Shapiro always talks about how important communication is so this is when it needs to happen.

[THANOS]

Someone from the FO should be communicating the message to the coaching staff then. Shapiro always talks about how important communication is so this is when it needs to happen.

 

Judging by what was happening in Cleveland with their rotation, one would think that Atkins and Shapiro would be pushing that here, but they seem far more stand-offish than what I expected.

[FrozenRopes]

Stro fell short with Thole making some questionable pitch choices.

[TilsonBritoFan]

When Eddie hit the deep fly out to the fence with bases loaded and 5-1 lead I thought, I hope that doesn't haunt us.

 

f***.

 

How do the Shatkins fanboys feel about the roster depth now? Are you still raving about how we have so much more depth under this regime? Jesus Christ, we have a s*** tonne of #5 /#6 pitchers ready to step in, sure. But our bench depth is worse than at any time under AA.

[Angrioter]

Stroman head:

200 mediocre IP >> 175 stellar IP

 

This is annoying as f***. Shatkins need to put Gibbons in his place.

[Statman]

bluejaysmessageboard self destructed at the same time as the bullpen last night...crazy.

[KingKat]

. But our bench depth is worse than at any time under AA.

 

In 2014, the opening day bench was Maicer, Thole and Moises Sierra. So yes this is crappy bench but no it's not worse than at any time under AA. Barney is a much better defender than Izturis, Thole is Thole and 'Zeke is not worse than Sierra.

[RealAccountant]

The bullpen hasn't self destructed

 

Cecil has.

[bronson44]

We can only hope that's what happens, but knowing the coaching staff and Stroman's stubborness, the message from this outing will be, "it's ok kid, you'll get 'em next time, just keep those balls down".

 

This should give you some hope