How long will the Pillar leadoff experiment continue?

[G-Snarls]

Pillar could have shut up in the spring. Gabby didn't want to hurt his feelings. Obvs.

 

I blame Pillar.

 

Disagree

 

Gibbons fault

 

He doesn't GAF about Pillar's feelings. He gave him the role because he thought it was a good idea

Edited April 10, 2016 by G-Snarls

[BigCecil]

Going into our 11th gm our "leadoff hitter" hasn't walked once lol.

 

Gibby drives me fking nuts sometimes. Sticking with my prediction he will give him 4-6 weeks.

 

Pillar's results and Cola's BABIP drop = most obvious predictions.

[glory]

Can't Atkins step in? I mean, he obviously knows these are bad decisions (Pillar leading off, Cola starting). Just step in and tell Gibbons who is boss. It's crazy that this stuff has been green lighted. I understand letting the manager do his thing but since you inherited this hick, you don't have to worry about his feelings. He's probably even open minded enough to follow the FO's instructions.

[Boxcar]

Can't Atkins step in? I mean, he obviously knows these are bad decisions (Pillar leading off, Cola starting). Just step in and tell Gibbons who is boss. It's crazy that this stuff has been green lighted. I understand letting the manager do his thing but since you inherited this hick, you don't have to worry about his feelings. He's probably even open minded enough to follow the FO's instructions.

 

Player egos are involved as well. If we learned anything from Drake-gate, it's that players do not seem fond of FO meddling in game-to-game affairs.

[BTS]

Can't Atkins step in? I mean, he obviously knows these are bad decisions (Pillar leading off, Cola starting). Just step in and tell Gibbons who is boss. It's crazy that this stuff has been green lighted. I understand letting the manager do his thing but since you inherited this hick, you don't have to worry about his feelings. He's probably even open minded enough to follow the FO's instructions.

 

It's annoying, but the runs lost don't likely amount to enough to warrant rocking the boat. They'll just wait it out.

[G-Snarls]

Silver lining thought:

 

At least Martin hasn't been leading off

 

LOL

[Sammy225]

Silver lining thought:

 

At least Martin hasn't been leading off

 

LOL

 

Remember how Martin started last year.... I would guarantee martins OBP will be between .320 .330 by seasons end.

[G-Snarls]

Remember how Martin started last year.... I would guarantee martins OBP will be between .320 .330 by seasons end.

 

I know. He'll be fine.

 

It's just that he's literally been our worst hitter and by a large margin so far this season

 

It just would have looked bad on Gibbons putting him 1 and having him like this for 10 games (even though it wasn't necessarily a bad idea). And we'd be super frustrated watching it too.

[Brownie19]

cecil looks a bit chubby again

 

I wonder if he couldn't do as much cardio due to the Achilles injury.

[BTS]

Apparently Pillar is the only full-time player who has not drawn a walk in 40 plate appearances.

 

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/offensive-struggles-just-another-challenge-blue-jays-pillar/

 

“What … it surprises you that he hasn’t walked?” Gibbons asked. “It’s not his nature.”

 

Come on Gibby. That's fine from your gold glove caliber 8 or 9 hitter.

[Dr. Dinger]

Ok, so clearly we're not ever going to do the logical thing and bat Bautista leadoff. So with that option completely off the table, who are we going to put there? Tulo is a plausible option, but he's been slumping as much as Pillar. I hate Pillar leading off, but the team is married to JD/JB/EE at 2/3/4. So... Saunders?

[BTS]

Ok, so clearly we're not ever going to do the logical thing and bat Bautista leadoff. So with that option completely off the table, who are we going to put there? Tulo is really the only plausible option, and he's been slumping as much as Pillar. I hate Pillar leading off, but the team is married to JD/JB/EE at 2/3/4. So... Saunders?

 

Saunders makes a lot of sense as long as he's healthy and hitting. Martin too once he's back to normal.

[Sammy225]

Saunders makes a lot of sense as long as he's healthy and hitting. Martin too once he's back to normal.

 

Even if its just Saunders against Righties and you can throw some crap in there against Lefties because we are going to crush them anyways lol.... Saunders looks great right now why not bat him up there.

[BigCecil]

Apparently Pillar is the only full-time player who has not drawn a walk in 40 plate appearances.

 

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/offensive-struggles-just-another-challenge-blue-jays-pillar/

 

“What … it surprises you that he hasn’t walked?” Gibbons asked. “It’s not his nature.”

 

Come on Gibby. That's fine from your gold glove caliber 8 or 9 hitter.

 

"Not his nature"?! Duh! So why is he the guy in this line up you want to give the most possible PAs to? Wake the f*** up Gibby and move out of the Jurassic period.

[Spanky99]

Apparently Pillar is the only full-time player who has not drawn a walk in 40 plate appearances.

 

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/offensive-struggles-just-another-challenge-blue-jays-pillar/

 

That's gut wrenching to read man.

[burlingtonbandit]

The thing I hate is when they say well Pillar will get more Fastballs to hit batting in front of the big sluggers. Lets check the numbers...

 

He's seen 56.1% fastballs this year which is even less than his career of 56.4%.

 

He's actually done a good job cutting down on chasing out of the zone and he's not a horrible hitter. Just not the guy you want to lead off on this team. Saunders vs RHP makes too much sense.

[admin]

If Kevin Pillar is your lead off hitter, you are not a Major League manager. I just don't understand this, it's not some sneaky strategy, it's not complicated, it's common f***ing sense. If your manager has no f***ing common sense, how on earth do you let him run your team. I don't see how Shapiro didn't say, "Are you f***ing kidding me?" when Gibbons told him Pillar will be leadoff. How do people sit in the organization and not step in or say something?

 

Add in his idiodic bullpen management, how do you keep this guy around? An average fan could come in and do a better job.

[KingKat]

An average fan could come in and do a better job.

 

Except what is his job exactly? Sure the average fan might see the error in his on field strategy but that's only part of his job. He's first and foremost a baby-sitter of egos. Now one doesn't exclude the other and yes it is frustrating to see him get very basic strategy wrong but that's not where his job begins and ends.

[admin]

Except what is his job exactly? Sure the average fan might see the error in his on field strategy but that's only part of his job. He's first and foremost a baby-sitter of egos. Now one doesn't exclude the other and yes it is frustrating to see him get very basic strategy wrong but that's not where his job begins and ends.

 

He's probably the most laid back manager in the league, so I can't say he does that either.

[Stangstag]

He's probably the most laid back manager in the league, so I can't say he does that either.

 

The fact is, we really have no idea what goes on behind the scenes

[admin]

The fact is, we really have no idea what goes on behind the scenes

 

There have been numerous incidents where he has done nothing and did not hold players accountable.

[Dr. Dinger]

There have been numerous incidents where he has done nothing and did not hold players accountable.

 

He's like a totally different Gibby this time around. In his first stint as manager he literally fist fought Ted Lilly and Shea Hillenbrand for showing him up. Back then I always thought of him as dour and unlikable, but now he's this totally laid back country bumpkin.

[admin]

He's like a totally different Gibby this time around. In his first stint as manager he literally fist fought Ted Lilly and Shea Hillenbrand for showing him up. Back then I always thought of him as dour and unlikable, but now he's this totally laid back country bumpkin.

 

It's great he's likeable but he still needs to take action against some of the stupid s*** the guys do. I can't think of any incidents off the top of my head but I remember a couple interviews where he said, "I'll talk to him." or "I talked to him." No one cares because they know he doesn't do anything.

[KingKat]

He's like a totally different Gibby this time around. In his first stint as manager he literally fist fought Ted Lilly and Shea Hillenbrand for showing him up. Back then I always thought of him as dour and unlikable, but now he's this totally laid back country bumpkin.

 

He put his foot down with Pillar in this stint and he was always a laid back guy 90% of the time. The main change I see is that he's less pro-active, less creative with on field stuff. He wasn't this rigid with roles before but that's probably at least partially a result of having a very different roster.

[BigCecil]

Except what is his job exactly? Sure the average fan might see the error in his on field strategy but that's only part of his job. He's first and foremost a baby-sitter of egos. Now one doesn't exclude the other and yes it is frustrating to see him get very basic strategy wrong but that's not where his job begins and ends.

 

^ in bold. The average fan thinks Pillar is a very good hitter too, because of those catches they remember last season. Same folks think he was robbed of the "Gold Glove".

[Stangstag]

It's great he's likeable but he still needs to take action against some of the stupid s*** the guys do. I can't think of any incidents off the top of my head but I remember a couple interviews where he said, "I'll talk to him." or "I talked to him." No one cares because they know he doesn't do anything.

 

I specifically remember him ripping into Lawrie and Pillar a couple years ago. Lawrie got mad that Lind didn't tag up for a sac fly, and Gibby was yelling at him on the bench. Its safe to assume he had a conversation with Brett after. And there was a time when he pinch-hit for Pillar and he threw a hissy fit. Gibby put him in his place after that and he was sent back to AAA.

 

So you're just bullshitting dude.

[KingKat]

^ in bold. The average fan thinks Pillar is a very good hitter too, because of those catches they remember last season. Same folks think he was robbed of the "Gold Glove".

 

I took that from what Admin said. Yeah he might be wrong about that too but that wasn't really my point. Let's just say any fan that's read or seen Moneyball could understand why Pillar hitting lead-off makes no sense.

[Krylian]

If Kevin Pillar is your lead off hitter, you are not a Major League manager. I just don't understand this, it's not some sneaky strategy, it's not complicated, it's common f***ing sense. If your manager has no f***ing common sense, how on earth do you let him run your team. I don't see how Shapiro didn't say, "Are you f***ing kidding me?" when Gibbons told him Pillar will be leadoff. How do people sit in the organization and not step in or say something?

 

Add in his idiodic bullpen management, how do you keep this guy around? An average fan could come in and do a better job.

 

Shapiro can't step in and say anything. At least, he shouldn't. That builds a bad rep for any prospective manager...you can't manage with autonomy in Toronto...the suits tell you how it's done. It's as bad as having a meddling owner. Shapiro might hate it, but he has to give Gibby autonomy. They may very well have had multiple conversations about strategy, but ultimately it has to be Gibby's team. Otherwise fire him. And sure, maybe that's what needs to happen, and that's a different conversation...but you can't keep him around on one hand, and not let him do his job on the other.

 

Shapiro might just be giving Gibby enough rope to hang himself with.

[KingKat]

Shapiro can't step in and say anything. At least, he shouldn't. That builds a bad rep for any prospective manager...you can't manage with autonomy in Toronto...the suits tell you how it's done. It's as bad as having a meddling owner. Shapiro might hate it, but he has to give Gibby autonomy. They may very well have had multiple conversations about strategy, but ultimately it has to be Gibby's team. Otherwise fire him. And sure, maybe that's what needs to happen, and that's a different conversation...but you can't keep him around on one hand, and not let him do his job on the other.

 

Shapiro might just be giving Gibby enough rope to hang himself with.

 

Shapiro didn't restructure the contract for nothing. Clearly he wants the freedom to can Gibby if he has to and really when you think about it, it would make sense to bring in a new guy when the post Bautista/EE era begins in 2017 but probably not so much right now unless things go quite poorly quite quickly.

[BigCecil]

People still think Gibby's an old school 'tard even after he hit Tulo leadoff for a month and Donaldson leadoff for a week.

 

Pillar is basically hitting leadoff because he was next in the clubhouse hierarchy and because Gibby wants to challenge him to become better. Note the changes in O-Swing, swstr%, etc.

 

If he sucks he'll get replaced. If Saunders maintains a .350 OBP he'll get replaced.

 

If he puts up a .315 OBP like last year it's not far off from the .320 we got on the aggregate. It's not really a huge deal unless he hits leadoff all year with a .280 OBP, which will just never happen.

 

Our offence would be where it was last year if Tulo, Martin, Smoak/Cola and EE were hitting. They're all not hitting at the same time.

 

I get this "clubhouse hierarchy" rationale but I don't agree with applying it.

 

The point isn't that Pillar leading off is the definitive reason we are 5-5. Its not. Clearly.

 

The point is that its not necessary and there are better choices which increase our probability of attaining greater results.

 

The same can be said for having Carerra on the roster over better choices and for playing Cola @ 1B facing RHP in NY with that RF porch.

 

At some point maybe they get replaced sure. But that's not really the point either. If he wants to challenge Pillar, tell him to strive for a .330 OBP at the bottom of the order and he give him a shot to lead off at some point. He didn't have to play it out now with Pillar.