General 2016 Blue Jays discussion thread

[THANOS]

It's actually pretty stupid. It's not like you can just f***ing abolish the two seamer/sinker. You seem to speak as if 2s usg should just continue to progress towards 0 or something. It's a useful pitch when you use it right, just like any other pitch.

 

You can't fix every single pitching thing by saying, "He's not throwing this kind of pitch enough! He listens to his pitching coach who is promoting the evils of this pitch! He should ignore his pitching coach and denounce him in the media." Like, you think Happ is gonna say, "Walker, yeah, f***in hate that guy?" Jesus. You post some variation of that several times a day fairly frequently. That's not how it works. There are many things that make a pitcher good, and it is not limited to whether he throws a 4s or a 2s.

 

Halladay and Webb were pretty decent.

 

It's not stupid at all. There are countless articles on it, including from fangraphs. It doesn't need to be reduced to zero, but the 4SM clearly should dominate unless the 2SM has the type of vertical movement to make a real difference. If it's predominantly horizontal (like Stroman's) then it's a bad pitch. It's only compounded if the grip and spin is unusual (like Stroman's) and can cause muscle confusion which can impact other pitches.

[GD]

It's only compounded if the grip and spin is unusual (like Stroman's) and can cause muscle confusion which can impact other pitches.

 

lol holy f*** thanks doc

 

E: Actually wait this is even more retarded than I realized. Do you even know what Stroman's grip is versus a normal two seamer? His fingers are literally like centimeter closer than normal. His grip is essentially the same as Francisco Liriano's and Doc's.

[Brownie19]

It's actually pretty stupid. It's not like you can just f***ing abolish the two seamer/sinker. You seem to speak as if 2s usg should just continue to progress towards 0 or something. It's a useful pitch when you use it right, just like any other pitch.

 

You can't fix every single pitching thing by saying, "He's not throwing this kind of pitch enough! He listens to his pitching coach who is promoting the evils of this pitch! He should ignore his pitching coach and denounce him in the media." Like, you think Happ is gonna say, "Walker, yeah, f***in hate that guy?" Jesus. You post some variation of that several times a day fairly frequently. That's not how it works. There are many things that make a pitcher good, and it is not limited to whether he throws a 4s or a 2s.

 

Halladay and Webb were pretty decent.

 

I suspect you're just tired of THANOS, but Happ threw his 2 seamer 5.7% of the time in Pittsburgh (with great success) - about half as much as he was in Seattle and almost 3 times less than he is this year. I suspect the 2S is his 3rd or 4th best pitch and thus there's certainly an argument to reducing it's usage - complete with evidence to support it.

 

The same argument can be made with Stro's cutter and change up. Are they useful pitches when used/thrown properly...but when they are your 4th and 5th best pitch - sometimes less is more (you also have to consider how frequently he can throw them properly and/or if they've found the best sequencing to use them properly).

 

Finally, let's not compare Happ's 2 seamer to Doc's and Webb's please.

 

E: I have no idea what THANOS is talking about with his muscle confusion bit...

[puphood]

Resting Saunders and Tulo makes a lot of sense. They are both made of glass so you try to do that day game after night games as often as possible. Unfortunately the plan was always to DH Bautista today so they both come out of the line up because of that.

 

Whenever people complain how s***** our lineup is we usually score a ton of runs so keep it up. Plus Perdomo is hot garbage. Theoretically we should have no problem with him.

Well that didn't work out so good. However I think they were thinking they would rest them for the Orioles as those games mean more numerically........

[burlingtonbandit]

So Franklin Morales is garbage.. Doesn't even have a swing and miss this season lol. Just because he was given 2 million bucks does not mean he should be on the roster.

[Rusty_Savage]

Are there any ways to trade or release Dickey? I just dont wanna see him pitching for the team and he has been awful

 

Of course there is but that would be stupid to do

[GD]

I suspect you're just tired of THANOS, but Happ threw his 2 seamer 5.7% of the time in Pittsburgh (with great success) - about half as much as he was in Seattle and almost 3 times less than he is this year. I suspect the 2S is his 3rd or 4th best pitch and thus there's certainly an argument to reducing it's usage - complete with evidence to support it.

 

The same argument can be made with Stro's cutter and change up. Are they useful pitches when used/thrown properly...but when they are your 4th and 5th best pitch - sometimes less is more (you also have to consider how frequently he can throw them properly and/or if they've found the best sequencing to use them properly).

 

Finally, let's not compare Happ's 2 seamer to Doc's and Webb's please.

 

E: I have no idea what THANOS is talking about with his muscle confusion bit...

 

I was talking about an overall, league wide reduction of the 2seam (well, I was saying THANOS was talking about that). If Happ's 2 seam is his 3rd or 4th pitch you're absolutely right that his usage should reflect that.

 

And again on the 2 seam thing, that was also about how it seems like THANOS just hates all 2 seamers or blah blah too vertical ********. I wasn't comparing Happ's to either of theirs.

[BigCecil]

The narrative based on past that RA starts slowly, but has a great 2nd half isn't playing out. I can't imagine that after dumping Storen they aren't seriously considering that Hutch could probably give them more than RA is the last 3 starts. Can you fathom giving RA the ball again in a playoff start? No.

[Brownie19]

I was talking about an overall, league wide reduction of the 2seam (well, I was saying THANOS was talking about that). If Happ's 2 seam is his 3rd or 4th pitch you're absolutely right that his usage should reflect that.

 

And again on the 2 seam thing, that was also about how it seems like THANOS just hates all 2 seamers or blah blah too vertical ********. I wasn't comparing Happ's to either of theirs.

 

This is a bit out there - but it seems when you read about hitters making mechanical adjustments - it's to lower their hands and create more loft in their swing (vs. the chop down stuff that was promoted previously). We all know lofted swings hit sinkers better. Are we seeing a trend where hitters are moving to more loft in their swings to counter all the pitchers who are using 2 seamers in lieu of 4 seamers?

[Brownie19]

The narrative based on past that RA starts slowly, but has a great 2nd half isn't playing out. I can't imagine that after dumping Storen they aren't seriously considering that Hutch could probably give them more than RA is the last 3 starts. Can you fathom giving RA the ball again in a playoff start? No.

 

Not sure I could fathom giving the ball to Hutch in the playoff either...

[RealAccountant]

If we are serious about winning a world series this year we need to get Ian Kennedy and Wade Davis on the team

[burlingtonbandit]

The narrative based on past that RA starts slowly, but has a great 2nd half isn't playing out. I can't imagine that after dumping Storen they aren't seriously considering that Hutch could probably give them more than RA is the last 3 starts. Can you fathom giving RA the ball again in a playoff start? No.

 

Sanchez, Happ, Estrada, Stroman. RA Dickey isn't getting a playoff start anyway.

[Rusty_Savage]

If we are serious about winning a world series this year we need to get Ian Kennedy and Wade Davis on the team

 

Have you heard what they wanted from Washington for Davis?

[fatcowxlive]

Have you heard what they wanted from Washington for Davis?

 

I actually missed that, what did they want?ß

[Rusty_Savage]

I actually missed that, what did they want?ß

 

Giolito

[fatcowxlive]

Giolito

 

jesus lmao yeah ok KC

[Maahfaace]

Sanchez, Happ, Estrada, Stroman. RA Dickey isn't getting a playoff start anyway.

 

Not if sanchez hits the BP

[Governator]

Sanchez, Happ, Estrada, Stroman. RA Dickey isn't getting a playoff start anyway.

 

If they move Sanchez to the pen for 2 months, is he immediately going to give us 7 innings in the postseason? This whole scenario confuses me.

[burlingtonbandit]

If they move Sanchez to the pen for 2 months, is he immediately going to give us 7 innings in the postseason? This whole scenario confuses me.

 

I'd say the chances of him staying in the rotation are better than 50%

[Brownie19]

I'd say the chances of him staying in the rotation are better than 50%

 

You should probably keep random, uneducated thoughts like this to yourself more often...

[L54]

I'd say the chances of him staying in the rotation are better than 50%

 

It's going to be interesting to see what they do. How do you put your best SP in the pen in the middle of a pennant run?

 

He's thrown over 100 innings the last 3 years. 133 in 2013, right where he is at today. Take the training wheels off, we all saw how well they worked out for Strasburg.

[Brownie19]

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/rangers-land-potential-relief-ace/

 

Jays should have traded for this guy.

[RealAccountant]

Royals would be interested in Devon Travis, and we could do with Goins at second for the stretch run. Having Kennedy and Wade Davis would be huge, we can finally stop wasting starts on Dickey.

[Jonn]

Royals would be interested in Devon Travis, and we could do with Goins at second for the stretch run. Having Kennedy and Wade Davis would be huge, we can finally stop wasting starts on Dickey.

 

Mods

[Effit]

we could do with Goins at second for the stretch run.

 

BTS would love this.

[King]

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/rangers-land-potential-relief-ace/

 

Jays should have traded for this guy.

 

If you want to give up Urena.

[burlingtonbandit]

You should probably keep random, uneducated thoughts like this to yourself more often...

 

Have you been listening to what Ross Atkins has been saying? Its an opinion based on what he's been saying. If anything you are the one who pulls s*** from his ass all day.

[Brownie19]

Have you been listening to what Ross Atkins has been saying? Its an opinion based on what he's been saying. If anything you are the one who pulls s*** from his ass all day.

 

um - Ross is just setting up the media and casual fan.

Edited July 28, 2016 by Brownie19

[L54]

Pretty easy to see that BB's greater than 50% statement means he thinks he will stay in the rotation. Just because he used percentages to convey his opinion doesn't open him up to criticism, especially when innings limits haven't been proven to reduce injuries.

[Jonn]

I want to see Sanchez stay in the rotation and stay healthy for the coming years just so we can finally leave this myth behind.