Dalton Pompey sent to minor league camp

[gbill2004]

Dom Brown should be the 4th OF.

[Angrioter]

Dom Brown should be the 4th OF.

 

He suxxx bro. He doesn't have the 4th OF profile

[Terminator]

What terrible options. I wonder if there is anyone available via trade.

[Cyborg]

What terrible options. I wonder if there is anyone available via trade.

Ceciliani is actually better than most you could find. He just put up a 157 wRC+ in his first taste of AAA. Also had 34+ UZR per 150 at all 3 OF positions last year in small sample, to go along with his good eye test D. He is also only 25 so there is upside.

[Terminator]

Ceciliani is actually better than most you could find. He just put up a 157 wRC+ in his first taste of AAA. Also had 34+ UZR per 150 at all 3 OF positions last year in small sample, to go along with his good eye test D. He is also only 25 so there is upside.

 

True but that was Vegas. Does the wRC+ account for that? The projections for him are terrible.

[Pendleton]

Unless the kid came into ST and undoubtedly made the starting job his own, I think this was the the way to go. I'm interested to see what Ceciliani can do as the 4th guy, hoping to see him crack the opening day roster over Lake.

[burlingtonbandit]

Ceciliani is actually better than most you could find. He just put up a 157 wRC+ in his first taste of AAA. Also had 34+ UZR per 150 at all 3 OF positions last year in small sample, to go along with his good eye test D. He is also only 25 so there is upside.

 

Whats his numbers L vs L? Since most of his playing time will come against LHP filling in for Saunders I think that is what matters most. He has options so he can always be CF in Buffalo and then be called up when an injury happens.

[Cyborg]

True but that was Vegas. Does the wRC+ account for that? The projections for him are terrible.

wRC+ should account for Vegas yes. He could have had a talent change, which would change his projections.

[Angrioter]

True but that was Vegas. Does the wRC+ account for that? The projections for him are terrible.

 

WRC+ doesn't care if was in Las vegas or the yard of my goat.

[GD]

wRC+ should account for Vegas yes. He could have had a talent change, which would change his projections.

 

Well partially. It accounts for the Pacific Coast League I believe but not specifically Vegas, correct? I know MLC used to have parkWOBA but I'm unaware of who else has it accurate. I think there might have been something on statcorner, maybe.

[Brownie19]

Only issue is there won't be anyone to platoon with Saunders, but if they intend on playing Saunders everyday then it's irrelevant.

 

 

Saunders was league average vs. LHP in 2014....not so much in previous years. Anything think he'll be a black hole vs. LHP?

[Laika]

Ceciliani is actually better than most you could find. He just put up a 157 wRC+ in his first taste of AAA. Also had 34+ UZR per 150 at all 3 OF positions last year in small sample, to go along with his good eye test D. He is also only 25 so there is upside.

 

He's also a Darrell, which is nice.

[BTS]

Darrell njh

Darrell boxy

Darrell Dinger

Darrell Ceciliani

[KingKat]

Unless the kid came into ST and undoubtedly made the starting job his own, I think this was the the way to go. I'm interested to see what Ceciliani can do as the 4th guy, hoping to see him crack the opening day roster over Lake.

 

I'm glad they didn't stage some phony competition for Pompey. If the plan is to have him in the minors, might as well be honest with him about that and what the reasons are. No point in toying with him.

[KingKat]

Saunders was league average vs. LHP in 2014....not so much in previous years. Anything think he'll be a black hole vs. LHP?

 

I think given what a lefty killing lineup this is, the concern is pretty moot. Most teams will shield their lhps from Toronto and those who don't will get shelled.

[Spanky99]

Well partially. It accounts for the Pacific Coast League I believe but not specifically Vegas, correct? I know MLC used to have parkWOBA but I'm unaware of who else has it accurate. I think there might have been something on statcorner, maybe.

 

That's a fantastic site.

[Krylian]

WTF kind of name is Lake, anyway? That doesn't sound very Latino.

 

Check out Lake Bell

[RealAccountant]

Unless the kid came into ST and undoubtedly made the starting job his own, I think this was the the way to go. I'm interested to see what Ceciliani can do as the 4th guy, hoping to see him crack the opening day roster over Lake.

 

Lol why would his career with the Jays be different then his career with the Mets. Good is good and he is not good

 

Pretty sure he just makes it as a defensive replacement

[RealAccountant]

wRC+ should account for Vegas yes. He could have had a talent change, which would change his projections.

 

Lol was that the same team and league where jpa won a triple crown and batting titles. Hahaha

 

Yeah nothing wrong there

[BigCecil]

think I'm in the minority. I am not in favour of this. Dalton as a 4th OF will get a ton of playing time.

 

Our LF and RF' ers have a history of missing time in the OF. Pillar is going to get hurt at some point with his aggressive style likely.

 

Dalton is > Lake, Brown, Italian. + D, + speed, switch hitter.

 

I know he has options and others don't but this is a "win" year and we are going to get more of Dalton that anyone else.

[Laika]

~183 days in a season, roughly.

172 service time days = a service time year per the CBA.

Pompey has 88 service time days so far.

 

IF they can get lucky with Ceciliani, or Lake, or Brown, or health generally, and limit Pompey's service time to less than 84 days this year, then they can gain an extra year of control. Worth a shot? Of course, he'd end up a super 2 player in this scenario and they'd have to go to arbitration with him before 2019 (and then three more times).

 

The ideal scenario in sending him down has him developing in AAA and the MLB team doing just fine without him. Then they can call him up early July for almost three full months of developed Dalton, supplementing a World Series run. Or, alternatively, they have a mature, developed trade chip that still has a full slate of team control. But if the 4th OF isn't cutting it then they can just call on Pompey.

[BigCecil]

~183 days in a season, roughly.

172 service time days = a service time year per the CBA.

Pompey has 88 service time days so far.

 

IF they can get lucky with Ceciliani, or Lake, or Brown, or health generally, and limit Pompey's service time to less than 84 days this year, then they can gain an extra year of control. Worth a shot? Of course, he'd end up a super 2 player in this scenario and they'd have to go to arbitration with him before 2019 (and then three more times).

 

The ideal scenario in sending him down has him developing in AAA and the MLB team doing just fine without him. Then they can call him up early July for almost three full months of developed Dalton, supplementing a World Series run. Or, alternatively, they have a mature, developed trade chip that still has a full slate of team control. But if the 4th OF isn't cutting it then they can just call on Pompey.

 

Its clearly a service time rationale and its a reasonable defense for the decision. I still don't care for it. Their is a counter argument that giving up a year to Pompey gambling that is in fact ready and is a better shot to add value to the roster in a win year. We will see how it works out.

[Angrioter]

~183 days in a season, roughly.

172 service time days = a service time year per the CBA.

Pompey has 88 service time days so far.

 

IF they can get lucky with Ceciliani, or Lake, or Brown, or health generally, and limit Pompey's service time to less than 84 days this year, then they can gain an extra year of control. Worth a shot? Of course, he'd end up a super 2 player in this scenario and they'd have to go to arbitration with him before 2019 (and then three more times).

 

The ideal scenario in sending him down has him developing in AAA and the MLB team doing just fine without him. Then they can call him up early July for almost three full months of developed Dalton, supplementing a World Series run. Or, alternatively, they have a mature, developed trade chip that still has a full slate of team control. But if the 4th OF isn't cutting it then they can just call on Pompey.

 

4th OF could be redundant. Let Pompey play in the minors improving. Jays gain one year of him

[Laika]

Its clearly a service time rationale and its a reasonable defense for the decision. I still don't care for it. Their is a counter argument that giving up a year to Pompey gambling that is in fact ready and is a better shot to add value to the roster in a win year. We will see how it works out.

 

I don't think it's clearly a service time rationale because I'm not sure that Pompey is necessarily good enough to warrant that type of manipulation. There could be other decent arguments for sending him out. Since they'd have to keep him down until July to gain that "year" of control, it's hard to do too.

 

But I don't think it matters. If there are OF issues early on then they can just call him up, right?

 

Pompey crushed A+ in 2014 (150 wRC+), crushed AA in 2015 (175 wRC+), and although he hit well in AAA in 2014 (137 wRC+) he has had major issues translating his pop to AAA. Sending him out could simply be a developmental decision.

[Laika]

Let the record show that Grant77 deleted a comment which demonstrated that he misunderstood something

[Atothe]

Let the record show that Grant77 deleted a comment which demonstrated that he misunderstood something

 

Lol

[Grant77]

Let the record show that Grant77 deleted a comment which demonstrated that he misunderstood something

 

I should have read what he quoted before I responded. I thought you were discussing leaving him down until May or so to avoid super 2.

[TheHurl]

Whats his numbers L vs L? Since most of his playing time will come against LHP filling in for Saunders I think that is what matters most. He has options so he can always be CF in Buffalo and then be called up when an injury happens.

 

SSS but over 550 PA's his slash vs. LHP is .301/.363/.410

[Angrioter]

Let the record show that Grant77 deleted a comment which demonstrated that he misunderstood something

 

lmao

[Laika]

I should have read what he quoted before I responded. I thought you were discussing leaving him down until May or so to avoid super 2.

 

He already has 88 service time days, so they don't need to manipulate him at all to avoid super 2. He would avoid it even if he broke camp with the team.

 

For other readers, teams can avoid super 2 by limiting a player to less than ~130 days in their first season. Players who have less than 3.000 years of service time in an offseason (and therefore don't qualify for arb1) but more than ~2.130 (changes each year) qualify for super 2 and thus early arbitration.

 

examples:

 

Kris Bryant was kept down just long enough to make sure that he only got 171 days in year 1. He will be a super 2 player but the Cubs gamed an extra year of control out of him. I believe his agent has grieved this. The Cubs received an extra year of Kris Bryant, but they will pay for it in a somewhat hefty 4th arbitration year.

Carlos Correa was called up in June and therefore got 119 days of service time in year 1. He won't be a super 2 player, and the Astros effectively received 119 "extra" days of Correa.

 

--> with the Astros actually making a playoff run, the value that they milked from Carlos Correa is immense.