Revere to the Nats in 3...2...1

[Jimcanuck]

Warning--he doesn't walk, and his poor defense(no arm) will be exposed in Washington in that ballpark. I mean, he wasn't that great defensively in Toronto (but an upgrade over Collabello/Valencia in LF). Plus, the Jays have Roemon Fields and Dwight Smith Jr. in AAA, who have similar skills to Revere--hopefully with more walks. Plus we have Pompey and Saunders around, with Lake and Carrera still options as well.

 

Jays will be damn lucky if either of them become half the player Revere is

[Jimcanuck]

Excited to add some stability to the back end of the pen. Would love to see a new LF addition now, but seems like they're married to Saunders/Pompey.

 

With Saunders/Pompey in the fold trading Revere could be seen as addition by subtraction.

 

It's Pompey's time.... Saunders I expect will be primarily a bench bat/DH/reserve OF. Goins can also play LF.

 

Don't need an OF addition, the only real need this team has is an improvement at the front end of the rotation. Good to hear the Dickey rumour (even if suspect source), hopefully Shapiro has something in the works.

 

Perhaps, and no one wants to hear this, with Storen in the fold they are looking at moving Osuna+ for a young #2.

[Dr. Dinger]

Jays will be damn lucky if either of them become half the player Revere is

 

There are plenty of OF options available right now that the Jays could pursue: Upton, Ozuna, maybe Cespedes, maybe Puig, maybe Fowler. Fowler costs you a pick but can probably give us 4-6 WAR over a two year deal and would be a legit leadoff option for us. One or two of those guys could end up being steals, and Shapiro can just wait out the market.

[Cyborg]

With Saunders/Pompey in the fold trading Revere could be seen as addition by subtraction.

 

It's Pompey's time.... Saunders I expect will be primarily a bench bat/DH/reserve OF. Goins can also play LF.

 

Don't need an OF addition, the only real need this team has is an improvement at the front end of the rotation. Good to hear the Dickey rumour (even if suspect source), hopefully Shapiro has something in the works.

 

Perhaps, and no one wants to hear this, with Storen in the fold they are looking at moving Osuna+ for a young #2.

 

Oh god.

[Jimcanuck]

Oh god.

 

Who would you rather in LF in a pinch - Goins or Colabello? Don't say neither.... in a pinch means you are scanning the bench for someone to run out there.

 

Its a counterpoint to the idea that with a Revere trade, we need an OF addition. Bautista, Pillar, Pompey, Saunders, Zeke, Goins is plenty enough options

[Frag]

The trade works because of team need.

 

Pompey is probably at least as good as Revere. And despite rumours to the contrary, Michael Saunders is still literally alive (he might not be kicking, though).

 

Storen completes the back end of the bullpen well. Now there are two good RHP in him and Osuna and two good LHP in Cecil and Loup. It bumps someone like Biagini/Schultz/Tepera who are probably replacement level. It also increases the ability to maybe stretch out Sanchez or Osuna, which may or may not be good.

 

Since Washington matched salaries, arguably the teams gets a bit better without increasing payroll.

 

Revere is an interesting case study in past WAR vs. expected WAR though. He has been a league average OF consistently and he has two years of control left. In theory, he should be worth more than 1 year of Storen. But WAR is a descriptive stat, not a predictive one. There are legitimate concerns that Revere's skill set has changed a bit since the past descriptive results. He may be more of a poor LF now defensively than a decent CF. He also doesn't have a "robust" skill-set in any sense of the word, having maxed out his physical tools in the past to only achieve ~2 win results.

 

Obviously Toronto doesn't see Revere as a rock solid 2 win LF going forward.

 

It will be interesting to see how he does in the next two years. The Nori Aoki situation from this winter kind of tells us that teams don't value corner outfielders like this (no pop, mediocre D) very much.

 

It's also interesting to summarize the process that led to Drew Storen:

 

Alberto Tirado + Jimmy Cordero --> Ben Revere (2.33 years) --> Drew Storen (1 year)

 

Of course, there's the PTBNL and the cash sent back to the Jays.

[L54]

Who would you rather in LF in a pinch - Goins or Colabello? Don't say neither.... in a pinch means you are scanning the bench for someone to run out there.

 

Its a counterpoint to the idea that with a Revere trade, we need an OF addition. Bautista, Pillar, Pompey, Saunders, Zeke, Goins is plenty enough options

 

Except your initial point wasn't about being "in a pinch".

[Cyborg]

It's also interesting to summarize the process that led to Drew Storen:

 

Alberto Tirado + Jimmy Cordero --> Ben Revere (2.33 years) --> Drew Storen (1 year)

 

Of course, there's the PTBNL and the cash sent back to the Jays.

 

We got Drew Storen for $6M ish + Revere for a few high leverage months for Tirado, Cordero and a PTBNL.

[BigCecil]

People forget that Revere struck out with no one out when all he had to do was make contact

 

f*** him and his contact making skills. When it came right down to it he struck out. Revere is really a nothing player. The minute his speed depriciates a bit he will be Rajai Davis.

 

Seriously? Are you talking Game 6. He got f***ed on an ump call 2-1 on a pitch almost a foot outside and high. Changed that whole AB against Davis who was lights out with 2 strikes. Face it, things weren't going our way and they were for KC. JD smashed a ball with hardest exit V of season (or close to it) with 2 men on right to 3B in that game. Wasn't meant to be. I don't blame Benny for that.

 

Revere was limited player but he was 2 ish WAR player who went a lot way to addressing a gaping hole for us in LF 2015. I like this trade ok because of our needs but I will think pretty fondly on Revere's short time in TOR.

[RealAccountant]

People should keep in mind that the Jays can likely get 2 WAR from LF probably more from other sources

 

But they probably couldn't get a WAR from another reliever. Now if we had kept Hendrik's it would have been a wow pen

[RealAccountant]

@Big Cecil he should have never been taking that 2-1 pitch. That was the problem

[5minutesforframing]

@Big Cecil he should have never been taking that 2-1 pitch. That was the problem

 

So he should swing at a pitch a foot outside the zone?

[RealAccountant]

So he should swing at a pitch a foot outside the zone?

 

He was up there to make contact. That is his specialty. He has got to have enough sense

 

Mind you in a key bat in game 5 against Rangers he also hit a very weak grounder and didn't get the run home. Followed by a crucial mistake of not following the ball on the Donaldson loope misplay.

 

Not to glorify clutch at bats but his so called contact skills are over rated. He is a below average defender who significantly relies on a high babip (30 points higher than avg). He isn't that you either.

 

Pompey > Revere

 

Put Pompey full time in LF he probably out WARs Revere.

[ElNik2013]

It seems to me that swinging at pitches out of the strike zone means weaker contact, higher % of swinging and missing and of fouling off pitches.

 

What if Revere had swung at that pitch and popped out in foul territory? I'm sure some guy would be blasting his lack of discipline.

 

Oh well...

[King]

Not to glorify clutch at bats but his so called contact skills are over rated.

 

Revere has the 5th highest Contact% in the MLB since he entered the league (2010).

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=5&season=2015&month=0&season1=2010&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=8,d

[Boxcar]

Is everyone just forgetting that Sanchez is a s***** starting pitcher? I would trade him asap but barring that, why is it so automatic in some people's eyes that he should be starting?

[jays_fever]

So he should swing at a pitch a foot outside the zone?

 

Revere smashing his bat against the wall in the hall afterwards summed up how we all felt in that inning

[RealAccountant]

Bottom line is this is an amazing deal. Storen is in a contract year.

 

Sanchez shouldn't be starting either.

[RealAccountant]

He should be starting in the minors. He has only 100 innings in AA and AAA.

 

Why minors

 

If he got MLB hitters out what is he going to learn in AAA. If you want to stretch him out do it during spring training and the season

[Boxcar]

He should be starting in the minors. He has only 100 innings in AA and AAA.

 

Tbh, what the team decides to do with him is completely inconsequential to me. I feel a bit better about him since we have the best parts of Cleveland's FO now and pitchers seem to bloom from nothing there, but I'm entirely indifferent if he gets traded, starts or remains in the bullpen. Citing mechanics and limited innings, I feel the same way about Osuna.

[Abomination]

There are plenty of OF options available right now that the Jays could pursue: Upton, Ozuna, maybe Cespedes, maybe Puig, maybe Fowler. Fowler costs you a pick but can probably give us 4-6 WAR over a two year deal and would be a legit leadoff option for us. One or two of those guys could end up being steals, and Shapiro can just wait out the market.

 

I wonder if the Dodgers are still trying to move Ethier or Crawford? They might have to eat some salary, but we'd be looking at 2 years during our window rather than a long FA contract.

[Boxcar]

You can't feel the same way about both Osuna and Sanchez! Osuna is in another class for me. The kid skipped the minor leagues and was getting high leverage outs in the ALDS. That tells you he has something. Talent or make up or whatever. There's something there if you can do that.

 

Hitting 98 and showing 3 pitches at 20 years old without any minor league experience. As a SP he can probably sit at 94 with a good slider and developing change up. With plus-plus make up. The guy is a no-brainer SP prospect for me.

 

Yeah I specifically cited mechanic concerns and innings. Team is built to win and Osuna isn't going to give you 200 innings, or anything close to that. Moving him to start would significantly increase his workload and I don't think it's a good idea. I obviously know Osuna has more talent.

[TheHurl]

And suddenly Storen is likable to many Jays fans.

 

[BigCecil]

@Big Cecil he should have never been taking that 2-1 pitch. That was the problem

 

You make it sound like its easy to get a bat on a ball in that location against Davis. Virtually impossible to get to. Don't blame him for the take. Pitch tracker was posted after that AB many times and it was a game changing call imo. Navvy got one similar. Hadnt been called all game up until then.

 

Anyway...its ancient history now. Best wishes to Revere and lets hope the arm we got has a solid year.

[L54]

Robert going full derp ITT

[AdamGreenwood]

Not sure why everyone is so excited about this trade.

 

We just traded a 2-WAR player for a 1-WAR player, while taking on higher salary, and having only one year of control instead of two.

Better hope Pompey works out this year, or this trade is gonna be looking really bad, when we start trotting Colabello out in left field again next year.

[L54]

Money coming back to offset the salary.

[spittin]

You can't feel the same way about both Osuna and Sanchez! Osuna is in another class for me. The kid skipped the minor leagues and was getting high leverage outs in the ALDS. That tells you he has something. Talent or make up or whatever. There's something there if you can do that.

 

Hitting 98 and showing 3 pitches at 20 years old without any minor league experience. As a SP he can probably sit at 94 with a good slider and developing change up. With plus-plus make up. The guy is a no-brainer SP prospect for me.

 

Mechanics are a question mark. But you can't not at least try him as a starter. Chris Sale was supposed to be on his 4th TJ by now.

 

I'm concerned about a lack of a 4th pitch. Not many successful (if any) RHP starters are going out there with just a strictly fastball/slider/change combo.

[spittin]

Not sure why everyone is so excited about this trade.

 

We just traded a 2-WAR player for a 1-WAR player, while taking on higher salary, and having only one year of control instead of two.

Better hope Pompey works out this year, or this trade is gonna be looking really bad, when we start trotting Colabello out in left field again next year.

 

Revere didn't even make this lineup better, I don't think we have to lean on Pompey to do that much, just play solid D and provide some value on the base paths.

[Boxcar]

Not sure why everyone is so excited about this trade.

 

We just traded a 2-WAR player for a 1-WAR player, while taking on higher salary, and having only one year of control instead of two.

Better hope Pompey works out this year, or this trade is gonna be looking really bad, when we start trotting Colabello out in left field again next year.

 

- Revere is not projected to be more valuable than Storen

- fills a position of need. Pompey will likely at least match Revere in value.

- the one year of control is a positive, not a negative.

 

Obviously if it comes down to it, Shapiro is not going to allow Colabello to be the regular LF. AA is gone, remember?