Alex Anthopoulos Departing

[GeorgiaPeach]

Should've just listend to high85 and traded Bautista for Mike Trout smh

 

Probably

[BigCecil]

There's pieces on this team that need to go, no matter how upset the fans get.

 

Jose & Edwin being extended are those pieces.

 

I'm a big fan of those two but to me its a question of:

 

Where the teams sits competitively

 

What they bring back in their final year as a rental

 

Their veto

 

What assets can we backfill their lost offense reducing net loss as much as possible. These are elite bats.

 

What the market is for an extension with that kind of production (my guess it is will be outrageous even for aging players given Beltran deal etc)

 

What the direction and plan of the org

 

Its not just a simple matter of just dumping them off for a package of prospects.

 

Done for the right reasons, the fan base will get over them the same way they got over Doc. AA will soon be old news.

Edited October 30, 2015 by BigCecil

[THANOS]

Stroman

Dickey

Hutchison

Osuna

Hendriks +

___________

= playoffs

 

We'll have 30-40 million to spend. That's why I agree with you on trading one of EE/Jose or both for a starter(s). It'd be in this org's best interest.

 

This. Sign Zimmer and Kaz/Iwakuma, and trade for Ross = problem solved.

[Boogerloo]

I'm a big fan of those two but to me its a question of:

 

Where the teams sits competitively

 

What they bring back in their final year as a rental

 

Their veto

 

What assets can we backfill their lost offense with

 

What the market is for an extension with that kind of production (my guess it is will be outrageous even for aging players give Beltran deal etc)

 

What the direction and plan of the org

 

Its not just a simple matter of just dumping them off for a package of prospects.

 

Done for the right reasons, the fan base will get over them the same way they got over Doc. AA will soon be old news.

 

This

[GeorgiaPeach]

This. Sign Zimmer and Kaz/Iwakuma, and trade for Ross = problem solved.

 

Who's being traded for Ross?

 

And if we're keeping aged players I'd rather have Bautista at say 22m per than Iwakuma at 15m per.

[Grant77]

This. Sign Zimmer and Kaz/Iwakuma, and trade for Ross = problem solved.

 

We don't need 3 freakin pitchers. We need one good pitcher and some insurance. Shapiro has always invested in young pitching, so Osuna and Sanchez will get a shot. He'll also recognize Hutchison's solid peripherals and give him a rotation spot.

[Orgfiller]

Fair enough.

 

And the masses would be in an uproar if we traded Bautista or Edwin for Trout and the Angels at Trout's entire contract.

There's too many emotional ties fans make with players or teams.

 

This just isn't true, everyone knows who Mike Trout is. FFS he's last year's MVP and in a 1A-1B battle with Donaldson for this year's MVP. People would offer to take turns to babysit the children of whoever pulled that kind of a deal off.

[THANOS]

Who's being traded for Ross?

 

And if we're keeping aged players I'd rather have Bautista at say 22m per than Iwakuma at 15m per.

 

Considered who would be our trade partner, Ross probably would cost us less than what one would expect. A package like Dickey/Revere/Sanchez/Urena probably gets it done.

 

I would sign Iwakuma under the assumption that the deal would be 2-3 years tops.

 

We don't need 3 freakin pitchers. We need one good pitcher and some insurance. Shapiro has always invested in young pitching, so Osuna and Sanchez will get a shot. He'll also recognize Hutchison's solid peripherals and give him a rotation spot.

 

That's fair, though I think Sanchez gets traded, or sent to the minors to completely revamp his development. Shapiro will take one glance at Sanchez's peripherals and puke. Hutch probably has his mechanics revamped before being thrust back into the rotation as well. I could see Osuna and Hendriks (if he proves his velo jump wasn't an anomaly) in the rotation next year with innings caps at 140 each.

 

Under Shapiro's philosophy though, Sanchez will not fit in.

[Grant77]

Considered who would be our trade partner, Ross probably would cost us less than what one would expect. A package like Dickey/Revere/Sanchez/Urena probably gets it done.

 

I would sign Iwakuma under the assumption that the deal would be 2-3 years tops.

 

 

 

That's fair, though I think Sanchez gets traded, or sent to the minors to completely revamp his development. Shapiro will take one glance at Sanchez's peripherals and puke. Hutch probably has his mechanics revamped before being thrust back into the rotation as well. I could see Osuna and Hendriks (if he proves his velo jump wasn't an anomaly) in the rotation next year with innings caps at 140 each.

 

Under Shapiro's philosophy though, Sanchez will not fit in.

 

I completely disagree. In his very first year he traded David Justice for Jake Westbrook and kept him on the roster for 10 years. People are mesmerized by their current collection of power arms, but he's clearly capable of recognizing the value in a pitcher like Sanchez, who has similar or better peripherals at a young age. There's nothing inherently wrong with the way Sanchez pitches. He has plenty of value just the way he is with a good infield D.

[vdubmvp]

This is a good, fair, well thought out, and non-speculative post. Nice job.

 

jaysfanhere2007?

[Pulk_Pull]

I see a Shapiro Cleveland philosophy on steroids in our future. Similar philosophy, but with a wider margin of error (i.e., a little bit more willing to waste some dollars on a semi-risky deal).

[Grant77]

I see a Shapiro Cleveland philosophy on steroids in our future. Similar philosophy, but with a wider margin of error (i.e., a little bit more willing to waste some dollars on a semi-risky deal).

 

More investment in the foreign market would be nice too. We have done a good job of it, but Cleveland has been mediocre, likely due to money.

[BTS]

I see a Shapiro Cleveland philosophy on steroids in our future. Similar philosophy, but with a wider margin of error (i.e., a little bit more willing to waste some dollars on a semi-risky deal).

 

I think that's basically a perfect way to build a team. Develop most of it in-house, avoid huge risks, and use free agency to supplement your core with the odd mid-tier signing when the fit is right. Only here, he'll be able to keep anyone he wants to keep, pursue more expensive/risky international free agents, and maybe make a big FA splash or two.

[GeorgiaPeach]

You win a world series with them this year, then QO both and maybe get a deal done with one of them.

 

Win a WS with them this year is such a definitive statement.

 

At minimum we should be QO'ing them both and letting them walk when they both decline. There's zero reason to run Jose or Edwin up close to 40 and paying them 20+m a year.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Pillar had a 4.3 WAR this year. Never saw that coming but I doubt he ever matches that again.

 

If Shapiro believes that he may sell high in a package. I just wonder if any other GMs see any further upside in Pillar though. I think Pompey could get a consistent 3+ WAR performer.

 

I think Pillar's bat has a little more refinement left in it and his defence won't be as flashy or good.

 

I think Pillar is worth more to us than he would be in trade.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Lol. f*** off. I can like a player emotionally and want the right busines move made for the "big picture". Period.

 

What I meant by that is, people tend to get so attached to players they don't care if the right move is made to better the team. They still want their little snuggle blanket player they love, but sucks.

[Pulk_Pull]

AA really only had two options; to take the five year deal and work until he got fired, or choose not to take the deal at all.

 

Taking the deal with the idea that you can opt-out is a nightmare scenario. Two possible outcomes:

1) You have a great to decent season and you Opt out. Makes you look greedy and disloyal.

2) You have a crap season. Your stock as GM is a ton of notches below where it is now.

 

If AA didn't like Shapiro, then what he did was the only choice. Whether that choice is selfish, smart, dumb, disloyal, egotistical, forward thinking, etc. is subjective, and really only AA's inner circle knows the truth.

 

Upon reflection, he was an alright GM. I think he did more good than bad, but it's pretty 50/50. His run the last year was remarkable albeit short-sighted. I get that sometimes you gotta go for it, and for a city that's staved of that type of excitement I was game. I'll miss the 'wtf' moments from AA, but I do look forward to Shapiro's philosophy, even if it will take some pain for gain.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Whether we get the right people or if they are willing to come here is a different story. We already have a top-notch scouting and player development team in place. I'll be more disappointed if that gets dismantled.

 

I'm sure Shapiro has his own contacts to build his own stable of scouts and development team. And those contacts have contacts.

 

It's not the end of the world.

[GeorgiaPeach]

And thats the thing. The majority of the fans (the ones that keeps the gears greased) wanted AA to finish the job. He earned it. This was HIS team. I think after the coup that he pulled off in Aug. people started believing that he can fix the holes and get us back to the dance. In AA we trust.

 

Rogers brings in an outsider (to the "casuals"), gets Toronto's favorite son kicked out, and the mob thinks Rogers playing cheap again.

 

I'd like to think a better term to describe Shapiro's shaping of the organization would be efficiency.

[GeorgiaPeach]

They are like twice as old as any player on this team should be.

 

You prefer the Phillies way of building?

 

Because that's the way it sounds.

[GeorgiaPeach]

It's a drastic increase of like 3-4 mph on average with him topping out at even 99 at times. I'm pretty sure he'll sit around 93-95, in the rotation, given this dramatic increase was not just a 1-year anomaly. I think it's worth checking out, just like it was when Carrasco's fastball increased by 3 mph's in 2013 in the bullpen.

 

If Osuna or Sanchez were moved to the rotation they still wouldn't be sitting 94-96.

[Boxcar]

You prefer the Phillies way of building?

 

Because that's the way it sounds.

 

Exactly what I said. Thanks for clearing that up.

[THANOS]

If Osuna or Sanchez were moved to the rotation they still wouldn't be sitting 94-96.

 

Sanchez does sit 94-96 in the rotation easily, he did it this year, even late in the game like in that 8-inning start he did before getting injured. Sanchez doesn't really exert any effort to work in the mid-90s as per our scouts/coaches/etc, and the only time he did, in the post-season he was working 97-100.

 

Osuna is similar. He was topping at 99 this season, so I could see him work 94-96 just fine, especially given that he worked in that range as a starter in the minors.

[thatoneguy]

This just isn't true, everyone knows who Mike Trout is. FFS he's last year's MVP and in a 1A-1B battle with Donaldson for this year's MVP. People would offer to take turns to babysit the children of whoever pulled that kind of a deal off.

 

There's a very valid argument that he should be a 3 time MVP already, going for a 4th straight.

[dineke]

Sanchez does sit 94-96 in the rotation easily, he did it this year, even late in the game like in that 8-inning start he did before getting injured. Sanchez doesn't really exert any effort to work in the mid-90s as per our scouts/coaches/etc, and the only time he did, in the post-season he was working 97-100.

 

Osuna is similar. He was topping at 99 this season, so I could see him work 94-96 just fine, especially given that he worked in that range as a starter in the minors.

 

sanchez is as good as gone

[Grant77]

sanchez is as good as gone

 

Why? Shapiro is no fool. He hangs onto talented young pitching and we need all of it we can get.

[Slugger]

The Sanchez hate confuses me. Is it kind of like a meme around here that got out of hand?

[thatoneguy]

The Sanchez hate confuses me. Is it kind of like a meme around here that got out of hand?

 

His lack of control and inability to get strikeouts at times are really not fun to watch.

[Orgfiller]

There's a very valid argument that he should be a 3 time MVP already, going for a 4th straight.

 

It's ironic that his only MVP year was his worst full season lol.

[THANOS]

His lack of control and inability to get strikeouts at times are really not fun to watch.

 

This. It's more disappointing than anything given the utter dominance he could have with that moving 97 2-seamer as long as he had command of it, and a couple other decent pitches to compliment the curve.