Offseason Roster Thread

[Laika]

I hope that doesn't mean they are done with Happ and that's our starters

 

Pretty likely that they are done with the rotation (other than minor league deals), unless they add through trade. I can't see any sense in signing someone and bumping Hutch or Chavez to #7 on the depth chart.

[bendera3]

Since we seem to only have 4's and 5's does anyone think that maybe having a 6 man rotation might make sense? Keep both Hutch and Chavez stretched out.

[KingKat]

Since we seem to only have 4's and 5's does anyone think that maybe having a 6 man rotation might make sense? Keep both Hutch and Chavez stretched out.

 

My issue isn't with the quality of the pitcher so much as which the quantity of innings they might be good for.

[bendera3]

My issue isn't with the quality of the pitcher so much as which the quantity of innings they might be good for.

 

If we did go with a 6 man rotation though we might be able to stretch more innings out of them. That's what I'm saying.

[KingKat]

If we did go with a 6 man rotation though we might be able to stretch more innings out of them. That's what I'm saying.

 

Oh o.k. I get what you're saying now... I thought you merely meant a rotation that goes 6 deep. You mean a 6 player cycle.

[bendera3]

Oh o.k. I get what you're saying now... I thought you merely meant a rotation that goes 6 deep. You mean a 6 player cycle.

 

Yes. If we are not going for a 1 or 2 and instead are going with 4's and 5's it might make sense to have 6 regular starters instead of 5. If a longman is required we can just have a pitcher go on 5 days rest. If there isn't a huge drop off in production it might be the most cost effective way to deal with pitching considering what we have.

[BTS]

O'Day would be a wet dream. We can also guarantee him the closer role, which a lot of his other suitors can't. Plz make happen.

 

O'Day would be amazing. O'Day, Cecil, and Osuna at the back of the pen, and to a lesser extent, Loup and Sanchez, would make for an awesome pen. Getting 5-6 innings from the mediocre rotation and then turning it over to a lights out pen featuring 3 elite arms would be pretty effective.

[Laika]

Since we seem to only have 4's and 5's does anyone think that maybe having a 6 man rotation might make sense? Keep both Hutch and Chavez stretched out.

 

No, but they should drill it into Gibbons' head that almost as a rule, a few of these guys should never face a lineup for the 3rd time.

 

I don't think it's fair to call the rotation a bunch of 4's and 5's either. Dickey is certainly still an above average pitcher. Estrada and Stroman pitched like 2's last year. Happ pitched like a well above average pitcher last year.

 

When I think of #4/5 SP, I think of guys like Danks, Gee, Guthrie, Harang, Big Pasta, and Tom Koehler that might be able to give you 1 WAR if they throw 25+ games.

[Dr. Dinger]

Who is Big Pasta? That's an awesome name.

[Stangstag]

O'Day would be amazing. O'Day, Cecil, and Osuna at the back of the pen, and to a lesser extent, Loup and Sanchez, would make for an awesome pen. Getting 5-6 innings from the mediocre rotation and then turning it over to a lights out pen featuring 3 elite arms would be pretty effective.

 

Almost like another team that wears blue and did pretty well last year...

[BTS]

Almost like another team that wears blue and did pretty well last year...

 

Indeed. Only with a better rotation and better big-3 in the pen.

[Laika]

Who is Big Pasta? That's an awesome name.

 

Alfredo Simon!

[Brownie19]

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/with-happ-blue-jays-complete-purely-cromulent-rotation/

[King]

http://nypost.com/2015/11/30/blue-jays-soft-spot-could-go-bust-or-send-yankees-to-oblivion/

 

The Yankees finished second in the majors in runs in the way Twice a Prince came in second in the 1973 Belmont – 31 lengths behind Secretariat.

The Blue Jays scored 891 runs in 2015, the Yankees 764. The 127-run gap was the largest between the leaders since the 1953 Dodgers outscored the Yankees by 154 runs. Consider the 2015 Yankees managed 119 runs in May (29 games). So they could have repeated that entire month and still finished second to the Blue Jays.

Toronto lost no one significant from that devastating lineup and can envision better production with full years from Troy Tulowitzki, Ben Revere and Devon Travis. That lineup filled Blue Jays management with two strong impulses: 1) It was so dominant, you don’t want to waste it by neglecting the rotation; 2) It was so dominant, greatness was not necessary in the rotation.

“With our offense, we feel consistent starting pitching was going to be key,” Blue Jays interim general manager Tony LaCava said by phone.

But this was the puzzle: The Blue Jays did not want to trade from the offense to upgrade the rotation. They did not want to give up prospects or draft picks because they had so depleted their farm last year to secure their first playoff berth since 1993, including dealing two 2016 rotation options: Daniel Norris and Matt Boyd. They knew internally they would never go to the financial stratosphere necessary to retain David Price, and they anticipated Mark Buehrle might retire and would not be back.

“We felt that if we did not act quickly, we could end up with a lot of guys who were not even replacement-level starters and, for us, that would have been a catastrophe,” LaCava said.

They have acted quickly, picking up R.A. Dickey’s $13 million 2016 option, dealing a good setup man (Liam Hendriks) to Oakland for Jesse Chavez, and investing $62 million in Marco Estrada and J.A. Happ.

Dickey was about innings certitude (only James Shields has started more games the past five years). Chavez is a swingman whom Toronto hopes to use for about 15 starts.

Estrada and Happ offer intrigue. They can go bust: Neither has sustained excellence in their careers. They could be around league average and carried by the elite offense. But what intrigues is what both did late in the year to suggest maybe their best is yet to come – in which case Toronto would be the AL team to beat.

The Blue Jays believe Marcus Stroman could top a rotation. Toronto plans to ask Aaron Sanchez to come to spring training ready to be stretched out as a starter, though there’s growing belief his future is in the bullpen. The Blue Jays toyed with doing the same with Roberto Osuna, but do not think he has the innings built up, plus they feel he is their long-term closer after his 20-save performance in his age-20 season.

But how this rotation goes depends on who Estrada and Happ are.

Estrada used an awesome changeup to have his best season (13-8, 3.13), and then was Toronto’s best postseason starter (2.33 ERA in three outings). But he turns 33 in July and never has thrown more than his 181 innings from 2015. He did not risk free agency in full while attached to the qualifying offer, signing for two years at $26 million.

Happ’s 2 1/2 seasons with Toronto (2012-14) reflect his reputation: very good stuff and mediocre results (19-20, 4.39 ERA). The Blue Jays dealt him to the Mariners, who last July 31 traded him to Pittsburgh. Like so many other pitchers who have fallen under the Pirates’ tutelage, Happ got remarkably better results. The Pirates got his delivery more streamlined north-south, which enabled him to get a higher release point. He threw more fastballs and continued a recent trend of limiting walks.

In 11 Pirates starts, Happ was 7-2 with a 1.85 ERA. Pitching is in such demand, teams will gamble even on glimpses. The A’s just gave $6 million to oft-injured journeyman Rich Hill because he had four good starts for the Red Sox to end the year. The Blue Jays were willing to risk $36 million over three years on Happ. They didn’t want to roll the dice on older starters who had draft pick compensation tied to them, such as Hishashi Iwakuma or John Lackey. And they know recent graduates of the Pirates pitching academy, such as Edinson Volquez and Francisco Liriano, continued to pitch well after their initial success and after signing multi-year free-agent deals.

“These were not the sexiest moves of the offseason,” LaCava said. “We are not going to win the offseason, but that was not the focus. The focus was on adding capable starters with potential upside.”

[Angrioter]

Mejia would be interesting too. He's out for a year, but would be under team control for 3-4 years after.

 

Mejia WL as SP

33 IP, 5.46 K/9, 2.18 BB/9, 2.62 FIP

[BTS]

I'm having a hard time understanding the Chavez trade if they see him as a swing man who will make 15 starts. Bizarre move so early in the offseason.

[King]

I'm having a hard time understanding the Chavez trade if they see him as a swing man who will make 15 starts. Bizarre move so early in the offseason.

 

I'm not sure if that was a "fact" in the article or just speculation. It was not a direct quote from TLC.

[King]

If it was a fact, it would be the subject of a tweet or its own article. Obviously just speculation. The pure reporter types (Sherman, Rosenthal, Heyman, etc.) should refrain from offering their opinions but there wouldn't be enough content to go around.

 

Yeah. That's what I was trying to get at.

[GoJays]

Anyone see a decent bull pen arm target we could grab in the rule 5 draft.

[Jimcanuck]

Spitballing a bit here

 

Mets are relatively weak up the middle. Tulo for Zack Wheeler, who hangs up first?

[Grant77]

Spitballing a bit here

 

Mets are relatively weak up the middle. Tulo for Zack Wheeler, who hangs up first?

 

I think we would, but I'm not sure the Mets would do that deal either.

[GD]

MLBTR's list of non-tender candidates:

 

Position Players

Peter Bourjos

Chris Carter

Ike Davis

Sam Fuld

Will Middlebrooks

Brandon Moss

Mark Trumbo

 

Pitchers

 

Henderson Alvarez

Steve Cishek

Charlie Furbush

Greg Holland

Jeff Locke

Mike Minor

Addison Reed

Vance Worley

 

A ton of very intriguing names that aren't on any FA list anywhere.

 

I want all of them

 

Spitballing a bit here

 

Mets are relatively weak up the middle. Tulo for Zack Wheeler, who hangs up first?

 

us

[Boxcar]

Why would we hang up on ourselves in that scenario? Wouldnt it just be better not to call in the first place?

[flafson]

I'm having a hard time understanding the Chavez trade if they see him as a swing man who will make 15 starts. Bizarre move so early in the offseason.

 

Estrada was also a swingman last season, I'm sure they were locked at in a similar fashion.

[Atothe]

Henderson Alvarez, the Marlins won't actually non-tender him right?

[Ehjays]

I can see the Jays dipping in to the rule 5 for a reliever

[GD]

Henderson Alvarez, the Marlins won't actually non-tender him right?

 

injured

[burlingtonbandit]

I'm having a hard time understanding the Chavez trade if they see him as a swing man who will make 15 starts. Bizarre move so early in the offseason.

 

I called this out at the time of trade and people jumped all over me lol.

[King]

Send Ousana,Shanchez,Hutch and LOUP to the minors !!!

 

Sign the following to 2y to 4y Max deals, 1-2y Ryan Vogelsong 4.5- 5, Chris Young 1.5- 3.5, Carlos Villnueva 2.5- 3.5 long relief, spot starts, swing men etc!

 

Then sign Ryan Madson 1.350- 4 ? , Mark Lowe 1.250- 3.5?, Bastardo 3.6 -4.6 ?

 

Then sign one of either Shawn Kelley, Tony Sipp, Brian Matusz for the final spot or have hutch, LOUP and ousana fight for the final spot out of camp!

 

Should cost more then 18- 29.5 ish to get it done?

 

Reset the minors, depth extended , all good problems solved ! Thank you

 

Do you purposely spell players names wrong? lol

[BTS]

Send Ousana,Shanchez,Hutch and LOUP to the minors !!!

 

Sign the following to 2y to 4y Max deals, 1-2y Ryan Vogelsong 4.5- 5, Chris Young 1.5- 3.5, Carlos Villnueva 2.5- 3.5 long relief, spot starts, swing men etc!

 

Then sign Ryan Madson 1.350- 4 ? , Mark Lowe 1.250- 3.5?, Bastardo 3.6 -4.6 ?

 

Then sign one of either Shawn Kelley, Tony Sipp, Brian Matusz for the final spot or have hutch, LOUP and ousana fight for the final spot out of camp!

 

Should cost more then 18- 29.5 ish to get it done?

 

Reset the minors, depth extended , all good problems solved ! Thank you

 

Which of Vogelsong, Young, and Villanueva are you recommending for 4-year contracts?