Offseason Roster Thread

[Governator]

Didn't Ervin Santana turn down a q.o. as well? I think you could assemble a list of players who fall in that category. Just saying "no one ever accepted it" is not really a complete argument because some clearly should have.

 

well no, wasn't he in the same situation as Drew at the time? He rejected the qualifying offer but ended u signing for half that amount late in the season. Thought it was relevant, whatever.

 

PS I was supporting your post FYI

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

I said this yesterday. Josh Thole hasn't produced a positive WAR season in his three years with the Blue Jays. He's a strain on the 25 man roster.

 

So is there any catchers better then Thole Who have caught Knuckleballers out there?

 

If yes are any obtainable free agents, trade wise, etc etc etc?

[Governator]

So is there any catchers better then Thole Who have caught Knuckleballers out there?

 

If yes are any obtainable free agents, trade wise, etc etc etc?

 

Russell Martin, Erik Kratz?

[KingKat]

 

PS I was supporting your post FYI

 

Yes I know. Not sure why our signals got crossed there.

[glory]

Kratz would be a solid backup.

 

If you want a starting calibre catcher as the backup then give Navarro money to Iannetta, but that might be excessive given the team's pitching needs.

[Terminator]

Didn't Ervin Santana turn down a q.o. as well? I think you could assemble a list of players who fall in that category. Just saying "no one ever accepted it" is not really a complete argument because some clearly should have.

 

Well yeah of course. Just because no one ever has accepted it doesn't mean no one ever will. But it does show that players who even should accept it tend not to.

 

Further to that, that wasn't all I said. I laid out how it's not that bad of scenario if he does accept it.

 

So yeah it's not a complete argument but that wasn't even half of the argument I was making.

[burlingtonbandit]

Bud Norris wouldn't seem like a bad target to take a 1 year flier on. Maybe sign a 1/6 so he can restore his value. Could be a good number 4/5 starter.

[birchy]

Do the Jays make a run at Greinke?

 

http://www.tsn.ca/greinke-opts-out-becomes-free-agent-1.387929

[KingKat]

But it does show that players who even should accept it tend not to.

 

 

I think the notion of controlling your own destiny holds a lot of appeal for players. Conversely, trying to explain to them that they might not actually get any offers and be able to exercise the amount of control they think they will get is probably a tough sell for agents (and that's assuming that the agents even see it coming). So yeah I do agree that players are more likely to make a mistake one way than the other but I also think teams have been a bit lucky to not have anyone accept yet. That's bound to change if a team pushes it lucks. As for Estrada, I'm not comfortable assuming he'll turn it down but like most people I can live with paying him one year at the q.o. rate and I think given his statements at the presser, Shapiro can probably live with that too (higher payroll = higher risk tolerance).

[jaysblue]

Bud Norris wouldn't seem like a bad target to take a 1 year flier on. Maybe sign a 1/6 so he can restore his value. Could be a good number 4/5 starter.

 

Next years version of Marco Estrada? I'd sign Norris for 1/5 and have him start as a long man like they did with Estrada this past season. I'm sure he'd end up making around 25 starts.

[baubau]

Do the Jays make a run at Greinke?

 

http://www.tsn.ca/greinke-opts-out-becomes-free-agent-1.387929

 

LOL. no.

[baubau]

Read through sportsnet and shocked at this article http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/bargain-shopping-could-help-blue-jays-land-impact-free-agent/

 

They used framing and wRC+ as a stat. What a time to be alive. Michael McKenry also doesn't look like a bad backup option either lol.

[Frenchsoup]

I like Alex Avila, coming from a big ballpark, real solid defender/gamecaller, concussion issues yes, but he's just going to be a backup so he can manage it.

[BigCecil]

I said this yesterday. Josh Thole hasn't produced a positive WAR season in his three years with the Blue Jays. He's a strain on the 25 man roster.

 

Ya, a few posters have mentioned valuing RA higher the way the KB plays re FIP and his +D.

 

But if we have to continue to give Thole a 25 spot that's a negative offset im sure some of the stats experts on here could assess.

[KingKat]

Ya, a few posters have mentioned valuing RA higher the way the KB plays re FIP and his +D.

 

But if we have to continue to give Thole a 25 spot that's a negative offset im sure some of the stats experts on here could assess.

 

I'm not sure if Thole is entirely negative. His framing numbers have been pretty solid in the past.

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

Russell Martin, Erik Kratz?

 

Russell can't catch dickey it messed him up! So Erik Katz is the only other catcher available that knows how to catch a knuckles? Any others?

 

Any catchers in the minors catching knuckballers? Is there any knuckle ball pitchers in the minors, Japan anywhere else?

[RealAccountant]

If your gonna pay Thole you might as well have him as the backup and catching all of Dickey Starts. That's 32 starts, and then maybe have him start 8 or 10 games here and there

 

Martin starts the remaining 120

[BigCecil]

I'm not sure if Thole is entirely negative. His framing numbers have been pretty solid in the past.

 

Im not sure. This is out of my pay grade on the stats side to evaluate. Its been discussed but framing isn't calculated in WAR is it? I wonder if they just go with him all yr as back up to Martin? We don't really need the offense from C.

[bendera3]

Im not sure. This is out of my pay grade on the stats side to evaluate. Its been discussed but framing isn't calculated in WAR is it? I wonder if they just go with him all yr as back up to Martin? We don't really need the offense from C.

 

I'd be fine with Thole as our backup catcher. Our offense is great that we don't really need too much production from a catcher.

[RealAccountant]

Whitesox without a SS now

[Frenchsoup]

If your gonna pay Thole you might as well have him as the backup and catching all of Dickey Starts. That's 32 starts, and then maybe have him start 8 or 10 games here and there

 

Martin starts the remaining 120

 

You don't assume Martin is going to stay perfectly healthy, you get a guy who can backup and atleast handle the staff properly. Thole can't do that.

[BigCecil]

You don't assume Martin is going to stay perfectly healthy, you get a guy who can backup and atleast handle the staff properly. Thole can't do that.

 

Im not arguing with you but Thole caught over 100 gms 2 years in a row with the NYM. Im not sure its fair to say he cant handle the staff in a back up role to Martin.

[burlingtonbandit]

I've seen some people have Thole's projected Arb. included in the Blue Jays salaries for next season. I don't get why the Blue Jays would even tender him. I don't think Thole gets a job on the 25 man roster of any other club so just sign him to a league min. contract. He really has no leverage since the only way he is on the club is because of Dickey.

[Frenchsoup]

Im not arguing with you but Thole caught over 100 gms 2 years in a row with the NYM. Im not sure its fair to say he cant handle the staff in a back up role to Martin.

 

Well he doesn't frame that well, doesn't throw well, doesn't call a great game, doesn't hit well. I think you can add these things up and assume he'll be in AAA.

[Governator]

Russell can't catch dickey it messed him up! So Erik Katz is the only other catcher available that knows how to catch a knuckles? Any others?

 

Any catchers in the minors catching knuckballers? Is there any knuckle ball pitchers in the minors, Japan anywhere else?

 

 

I don't know, I'm not paid to search through thousands of players looking for a knuckleball catcher who could provide more value than Thole or Kratz as a back up role. I'm sure someone is on it.

[baubau]

Whitesox without a SS now

 

They have Tim Anderson. What happened to Ramirez this season. 6 consecutive seasons of 2 WAR, averaged 3 WAR over that span and this year just nose dived. He has never been a great hitter but his defense and baserunning just plummeted. Could be a good option for many teams looking for a gap at SS or a backup SS, depending on what he signs for.

[King]

They have Tim Anderson. What happened to Ramirez this season. 6 consecutive seasons of 2 WAR, averaged 3 WAR over that span and this year just nose dived. He has never been a great hitter but his defense and baserunning just plummeted. Could be a good option for many teams looking for a gap at SS or a backup SS, depending on what he signs for.

 

He's 34. He probably just sucks now.

[baubau]

He's 34. He probably just sucks now.

 

Forgot how old he was honestly. Thought he was closer to early 30s than mid 30s. Its crazy how there is just a nose dive. Happened to Reyes this season after putting up 3 WAR last season. Dang older position players, you scary.

[SaskJaysFan_2]

Since I don't we will sign any aces for the rotation, I see some 2nd tier guys that would do well here I think.

 

Cliff Lee (if he doesn't retire and if he passes a medical)

Santana (if he doesn't retire and if he passes a medical)

John Lackey

Kazmir

Iwakuma

Rich Hill - closer to 3rd tier, but looked awesome for Boston

Colon

Shark - closer to 1st tier

 

We could easily have the oldest SP in the major with a couple of these guys and Dickey, but the contracts would be 1-3 years and not overly expensive.

[Boxcar]

We could easily have the oldest SP in the major with a couple of these guys and Dickey, but the contracts would be 1-3 years and not overly expensive.

 

That's the way to go imo. Invest long term in position player stars and go for bargain old guys in the rotation. John Lackey is still a very good pitcher who will not be paid what he's worth and won't get more than 2-3 years.