What is needed next year so that the Jays keep winning?

[KingKat]

In the grand scheme of things, was Osuna in the bullpen for a season really worth it?

 

No, not really.

[TheHurl]

I think I would do it in reverse; think of him as a swing/multi-inning guy and slowly stretch him out so that he could be an emergency starter down the stretch if need be. I think it's tough to go into the season anticipating him in the rotation.

 

If nothing else, hopefully this outing opens some eyes within the organization as to his potential value beyond being an afterthought.

 

Again...now think if the Jays Pen starts the year like they did this year? Either option they have to acquire solid depth IMO. Too me the option is 140ish IP starter or closer. Long term I know what's best for the Jays but 2016, becoming 2013 really hurts all the momentum gained this year. Not saying they have to do all their moves based on casuals and ticket sales, but it has to be a thought.

 

Nice timing as Fangraphs did an article on Osuna and aging curves of relievers. So great for him that they couldn't even find a true age comp.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/roberto-osuna-and-the-aging-curve-for-young-relievers/

[Swervin81]

With some of the crap written on here, you'd think we'd have 2004 Barry Bonds HR totals with Mark Reynolds strikeout numbers.

 

Yeah, the team leading the league as well in OBP and BA really relies on HR's. The team that still had the best offense in baseball against righties needs a LHH. Come on, guys.

[THANOS]

With some of the crap written on here, you'd think we'd have 2004 Barry Bonds HR totals with Mark Reynolds strikeout numbers.

 

Yeah, the team leading the league as well in OBP and BA really relies on HR's. The team that still had the best offense in baseball against righties needs a LHH. Come on, guys.

 

This. That said I do think they should consider changing their approach to guys like Gallardo, Jimenez, Young, and Volquez. Maybe a less patient, hitting oppo, approach would work better against pitchers like that.

[Flashman]

Just spitballing around here...

 

I've been listening to Brunt this week. On the subject of Travis vs Goins for 2B, he suggested it could be Tulo who is shipped out.

 

A surprising idea at first. But consider this: the Jays save on his contract and get back an elite pitching prospect in return. That pitcher teams up with, say, Stroman and Zimmerman at the top of the rotation. Tulo's money is partly put towards extending EE, giving the Jays a stable long term middle order of Donaldson, Encarnacion, Martin. A rock solid and cheap defence up the middle between Martin, Travis, Goins and Pillar.

 

Wouldn't be a bad core going forward with just a bit of tinkering, especially if they could emulate the Yankees and Royals by getting a couple more shutdown arms for the bullpen.

[CHRIS]

Again...now think if the Jays Pen starts the year like they did this year? Either option they have to acquire solid depth IMO. Too me the option is 140ish IP starter or closer. Long term I know what's best for the Jays but 2016, becoming 2013 really hurts all the momentum gained this year. Not saying they have to do all their moves based on casuals and ticket sales, but it has to be a thought.

 

Nice timing as Fangraphs did an article on Osuna and aging curves of relievers. So great for him that they couldn't even find a true age comp.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/roberto-osuna-and-the-aging-curve-for-young-relievers/

 

Wait, is this conversation about Osuna or Hendriks? I was thinking Hendriks.

 

I think I'm suffering from a good ol' case of thread confusion.

[Cyborg]

Sign Gordon and Heyward.

Trade Pillar + Osuna + Sanchez + whatever else needed for Carrasco.

 

Heyward CF

Donaldson 3B

Bautista RF

Edwin 1B

Gordon LF

Tulo SS

Cola/Smoak 1B

Martin C

Travis 2B

 

Saunders 4 OF / Pompey

Goins IF

Smoak/Cola 1B/PH

Thole C

 

Carrasco

Stroman

Dickey

Hutch

Hendriks/some guy

 

Cecil

who cares

some guy we traded Revere for

Loup

who cares

who cares

who cares

[BTS]

Gordon is a free agent? For some reason I hadn't noticed this.

[RealAccountant]

What's Lowe going to cost? Something like 3/15?

 

2/8

[Cyborg]

Gordon is a free agent? For some reason I hadn't noticed this.

He'd be a dumb dumb to take that $12.5M Player Option.

[jaysblue]

What's Lowe going to cost? Something like 3/15?

 

Not a big fan of giving Lowe 3 years. Before this season, he was on the scrapheap. His only other good season was in 2009.

[RealAccountant]

I would still consider making Estrada decent offers to stay

[jaysblue]

He'd be a dumb dumb to take that $12.5M Player Option.

 

Though he's a bottom of the lineup hitter in Ned Yost's championship caliber lineup and only plays left field...

[Iggy]

If it were my choice, I'd stretch him out as a starter and place him in the bullpen in August, much like we did with Sanchez this year. Get him ~150 innings and he's good to go in 2017.

 

I think this is a great plan ... long term Osuna would benefit the Jays the most as a starter so why not move him to the rotation next spring

 

This year it made sense to leave him in the bullpen to recover from TJ surgery

[THANOS]

Sign Gordon and Heyward.

Trade Pillar + Osuna + Sanchez + whatever else needed for Carrasco.

 

Heyward CF

Donaldson 3B

Bautista RF

Edwin 1B

Gordon LF

Tulo SS

Cola/Smoak 1B

Martin C

Travis 2B

 

Saunders 4 OF / Pompey

Goins IF

Smoak/Cola 1B/PH

Thole C

 

Carrasco

Stroman

Dickey

Hutch

Hendriks/some guy

 

Cecil

who cares

some guy we traded Revere for

Loup

who cares

who cares

who cares

 

Not bad, I could see AA do that for Carrasco. He could win multiple Cy Youngs with our offense. I like the idea of stretching Hendriks out as well. I wonder if we could package Revere with a prospect to get Chapman?

[THANOS]

I think this is a great plan ... long term Osuna would benefit the Jays the most as a starter so why not move him to the rotation next spring

 

This year it made sense to leave him in the bullpen to recover from TJ surgery

 

I think Osuna could turn into an elite starter with his command and swing and miss potential. I think his ceiling would be Carrasco, with his pitch arsenal, only at a much younger age.

 

It would be smart to try and model Osuna's development as a starter after Carrasco (Carrasco jumped to 14 starts and 130+ innings in 2014 after 40+ innings in 2013). Start him in the bullpen as a long-man before putting him into the rotation around June with no handcuffs (the way Carrasco's 2014 went). Watching tape of Carrasco could help as well, as his composure and presence is similar to Osuna.

Edited October 21, 2015 by THANOS

[Terminator]

In the grand scheme of things, was Osuna in the bullpen for a season really worth it? Stretching him out will probably take two years to do effectively, and chances are any stretching out will happen in the Majors, so they'd be killing two years of additional control for development years.

 

Yes, it was easily worth it.

 

He was in A-ball and if we left him as a starter we wouldn't have gotten anything out of him this year as he worked his way up to AAA. Instead we got a WAR and a half out of a reliever in what became our first AL East crown in over two decades.

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

Do you see the Jays holding onto Tulo ? Or does he become a trade chip this offseason ?

 

If we lose do we hold the vets even or retool ?

 

I would imagine Batz, EE And Tulo and dickey would restock the shelf nicely!

[THANOS]

Do you see the Jays holding onto Tulo ? Or does he become a trade chip this offseason ?

 

If we lose do we hold the vets even or retool ?

 

I would imagine Batz, EE And Tulo and dickey would restock the shelf nicely!

 

If we re-tool it would only be for MLB ready needs I believe. I could see a Tulo for Carrasco trade since it fits both teams' needs evenly, while dealing from a position of strength.

[mtljaysfan]

If we re-tool it would only be for MLB ready needs I believe. I could see a Tulo for Carrasco trade since it fits both teams' needs evenly, while dealing from a position of strength.

 

Tulo for Carrasco straight up? That would be fantastic.

[King]

If we re-tool it would only be for MLB ready needs I believe. I could see a Tulo for Carrasco trade since it fits both teams' needs evenly, while dealing from a position of strength.

 

The Indians have Lindor and Kipnis up the middle

[reedjohnsonfan]

The Indians have Lindor and Kipnis up the middle

 

I think it was a troll post lol

[West Texas Forever]

Get Noah Syndergaard back.

[TheHurl]

If we re-tool it would only be for MLB ready needs I believe. I could see a Tulo for Carrasco trade since it fits both teams' needs evenly, while dealing from a position of strength.

 

and $94M going to Cleveland? And them dealing Kipnis for a boatload...that might happen

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

Depends how big is this Top and are you sure it ain't a dreidel ? Lol

[Stangstag]

Tulowitzki has a full no-trade clause.

[KingKat]

Tulowitzki has a full no-trade clause.

 

Yeah I don't think Brunt has really researched this. Interesting piece of out of the box thinking but not realistic in the slightest. Also, it would be nice to not torpedo every area of depth for once. Maybe just maybe we can fill holes with signings this time around.

[TheHurl]

I think Carrasco gets traded for Puig. Makes so much sense for both teams. Cleveland has a huge RF hole and some pitching depth. LAD has platoon options to replace most of Puig's value. The money is almost the same Puig 3 years $24M, Carrasco 3 Years $19M with two sliding scale options.

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

Tulowitzki has a full no-trade clause.

 

I really think No Trade clauses should be removed from all sports contracts or if not then they are not guaranteed! Either or but not both allowed player has to pick one!

[jaysfan2014]

Man is that depressing.

 

Have to also look at the fact that Boston is almost certainly going to be a lot better next year (or if the second half of their season was any indication).

 

Yes, but the Yanks, O's and Rays will likely be worse. The reasons are:

 

Yanks: Age (they had nothing left by August/Setpember), and aren't exactly in a position to add much due to so many contracts tying up the roster space and payroll), and they need bench depth more than anything. And of course, several of their pitchers have injury concerns (Eovaldi, Nova, Sabathia, Pineda, Tanaka), or are at risk of injury/regression (Wilson, Betances, Miller), due to overusage. And yes, they have Greg Bird.. but he's AAA bound with Tex's deal not expiring until after the season. Any chance of a big signing for the OF (Cespedes, Heyward?) will require Beltran or Gardner to be moved, as Ellsbury's contract is an albatross. And of course, there's still A-Rod.. just 2 more years and he's gone and the Yanks will finally be freed of that contract.

 

O's: No Davis, Chen, O'Day, Wieters, or the money to resign most of them. Baltimore is heading for a hard fall in the standings in 2016, even with Machado around. No chance ownership ponies up for Davis or Chen, as they are Boras clients and expected to get huge money elsewhere(Davis could easily get upwards of $20-25M/year), far beyond the O's comfort level. And of course, Machado's arbitration looms large, as he is expected to command a significant raise from $500K.. should've signed him long term back last year.. either that or Peter Angelos doesn't plan to resign him when he hits free agency towards the end of the decade.

 

Rays: While they have the pitching... for how much longer? This team needs bats.. and replacements at C, SS, 1B (Loney is likely to be traded due to his $9M salary which the Rays can't afford) and the bullpen. Unfortunately, new stadium talks are going nowhere, and unless something happens between now and the end of next season, or attendance improves or they get a good TV deal, a huge fire sale looms, as the payroll is expected to shoot up in 2017 and 2018. Keep an eye on Longoria--rumors had him possibly being targeted by the LA Angels, as they need a 3B with Freese departing via free agency, and it would not be surprising if he is dealt this offseason, as his salary, despite being a steal, is difficult for the Rays to afford when they can't draw 15,000 per game. It's also possible one or two or their arms are dealt for bats as well, possibly out of Karns, Odorizzi, Smyly or Erasmo Ramirez. Archer will stay, as he's on an affordable deal, and Moore needs to rebuild value.

 

Red Sox--We know they'll be better in 2016, likely neck and neck with the Jays. Still, there are concerns:

-Will HanRam be able to play 1B, and will Sandoval rebound? Unless Boston eats a ton of money, neither can be moved.

-Are Castillo and Bradley everyday players? Bradley possibly(he's out of options and must make the team, and actually played quite well in the 2nd half), but Castillo is still a question mark, as he badly disappointed in his 289 PA in Boston with the bat. His D was good though..

-Will Bogaerts finally develop that 25-30 HR power that was projected of him? He and Mookie Betts were the MVPs of the Red Sox.. but Bogaerts needs to hit more for power than the 7 HRs he hit this season.

-Can Betts get even better? His improvement this season made Boston fans finally forget about Jacoby Ellsbury (who declined badly with the Yanks).

-Can Dombrowski bring in an ace pitcher to upgrade this 14th in AL ranked pitching staff? And can he upgrade the pen (BTW, to Detroit fans, this was his Achilles heel.. bullpens were his major weakness)

-And last, how much does Ortiz and Pedroia have left in the tank?

 

Keep in mind as well that Boston's financial flexibility is limited--$177.3M(about $189M with benefits for luxury tax purposes) is projected for the 2016 payroll, so any pitching may come from trades, as Boston's farm is strong, with many big names such as Moncada(2B), Devers(3B), Margot(OF), Kopech(P), Espinoza(P) and Guerra(SS), plus they may try to move HanRam or Sandoval's deals to make room for Travis Shaw(who is playing 1B/3B in winter ball) and to get financial space for a free agent pitcher.