AL MVP....Donaldson or Trout???

[z3r0s]

MVP has always really meant best player.

 

Does the same logic apply to Cy Young award? Should Doc not have won it when he was here? What about Clemens and Hentgen...ya they made the playoffs but not in those years... Where's the line?

 

It probably should, but that's clearly not how some people see it.

[Olerud363]

Holy f*** Olerud

 

Not sure what comment this is in reply to....

 

This is a ridiculous conversation. Donaldson and Trout are essentially tied right now. The 0.2 difference in WAR is meaningless so you might as well go with the nice story.

 

If you think that Trout should be MVP because he is slightly ahead of Donaldson in WAR that is complete foolishness.

 

Right now, in August 2015 there is little difference between Donaldson and Trout. Obviously this could change. So it is reasonable to say

 

"Trout is way better and will outperform Donaldson by quite a bit the next 2 months and will be the obvious MVP"

 

That is OK. But explain it. Don't say "YOU ARE AN IDIOT. TROUT IS 0.2 AHEAD AND THE SITUATION IS DECIDED"

[Ehjays]

You guys need to quantify Donaldson's clubhouse chemistry, for sure that's worth more than 0.3 WAR.

 

The one other problem is going to be Donaldson's salary next season. It's going to jump to over 10M. And that's only the second arbitration. If we don't sign him long term, we are screwed.

 

Remember he lost his arb this year and accepted it no problem. This is a team player and Im sure AA is working on an Extension after this season.

[Boxcar]

Not sure what comment this is in reply to....

 

This is a ridiculous conversation. Donaldson and Trout are essentially tied right now. The 0.2 difference in WAR is meaningless so you might as well go with the nice story.

 

If you think that Trout should be MVP because he is slightly ahead of Donaldson in WAR that is complete foolishness.

 

Right now, in August 2015 there is little difference between Donaldson and Trout. Obviously this could change. So it is reasonable to say

 

"Trout is way better and will outperform Donaldson by quite a bit the next 2 months and will be the obvious MVP"

 

That is OK. But explain it. Don't say "YOU ARE AN IDIOT. TROUT IS 0.2 AHEAD AND THE SITUATION IS DECIDED"

 

I said no such thing. My comment was more towards your needlessly long and convoluted style of posting.

[Olerud363]

I said that penalizing a player for his entire team's shortcomings was bad logic. You informed me that it was not bad logic. Thus I reinforced my point.

 

When you have Trout at 10 WAR, and Cabrerra at 6.x then by all means it is bad logic to give Cabrerra the MVP because his team won, or because he the triple crown or whatever.

 

If you end up with Trout at 9.5 and Donaldson at 9.2 it's different... who knows who was really better, measuring all this stuff isn't exact. It's no longer obvious who was better so go with the nice story, or the winning team.

[Olerud363]

I said no such thing. My comment was more towards your needlessly long and convoluted style of posting.

 

Yo Bro- Trout 6.5, JD - 6.3 case closed.

[KingKat]

What? You didn't like the movie? I mean they didn't give enough monster fights till the end, I agree. Hated when they cut off Godzilla when he arrived at Hawaii where he was facing the monster and then cut off to him chasing it again.

 

Honest Trailers did a pretty good job of summing it up. It's two hours of utter tedium and a few way too dark scenes with Godzilla.

 

[Billy Bats]

Donaldson over Trout.

[Hipfan]

Trout, no doubt! Donaldson has been great, but Trout is the best player in the game and carrying a playoff contending team, so there's no question in my mind, no matter how hard I want Donaldson to win it.

[Boxcar]

When you have Trout at 10 WAR, and Cabrerra at 6.x then by all means it is bad logic to give Cabrerra the MVP because his team won, or because he the triple crown or whatever.

 

If you end up with Trout at 9.5 and Donaldson at 9.2 it's different... who knows who was really better, measuring all this stuff isn't exact. It's no longer obvious who was better so go with the nice story, or the winning team.

 

omg shut up

[Atothe]

omg shut up

 

Why haven't you il'd him yet?

[Boxcar]

Why haven't you il'd him yet?

 

he's not a constant source of annoyance like Jonn or BTS.

[L54]

Person - "Mike Trout is the best player in baseball, barring injury he will win the MVP 10 years in a row"

 

Stangstag - "You are very smart, you can walk without shame"

 

Another Person - "Mike Trout will not win the MVP 10 years in a row, he won't even deserve it 10 years in a row, over 10 years he may win three MVPs, some years other players will have better seasons and win the MVP, some years players will be essentially be tied with Trout and win the MVP because of their unique story (and the writers don't want to give it to Trout every year). Some year some ******* slugger will drive in 150 and win it... though Trout will probably deserve it that year. That is the way it works."

 

Stangstag - "You should be ashamed of yourself, your family should be ashamed of you. Shame, Shame, Shame!!"

 

Olerud- "BB is the greatest GM cuz Lawrie could still hit .280 with 20 bombs and 7 steals and Barreto could become an all-star and Kendall Graveman could be 2 WAR and Sean Nolin could be 2 WAR and Josh Donaldson could hit .230 and then we all wouldn't think it was such a great deal."

 

Anyone else- Yes, but the probability of this happening and coming back to bite the Jays is very low.

 

Olerud- "Ya but if Lawrie has a similar career path as Beltre then we might all regret the trade because we gave the A's Graveman, Nolin and Barreto!!1!"

[LTR]

When you have Trout at 10 WAR, and Cabrerra at 6.x then by all means it is bad logic to give Cabrerra the MVP because his team won, or because he the triple crown or whatever.

 

If you end up with Trout at 9.5 and Donaldson at 9.2 it's different... who knows who was really better, measuring all this stuff isn't exact. It's no longer obvious who was better so go with the nice story, or the winning team.

 

Pretty much agree entirely.

[93 Jays]

Angels would be troll dust if it weren't for Trout. If L.A folds up and dies, it'll make it harder for trout to win. I love Donaldson and what he has done for our team, but people will argue to the death that our team is stacked. But there's no arguing the contribution this guy has made with his walk offs and game winning hits. Not to mention how #FYSMC gave this team a kick in the ass!

[gruber92]

Not necessarily. Most Valuable player is different then best performing player. If the Angels miss the playoffs Trouts performance didn't really change the situation for the team. Donaldsons most certainly has.

 

What you have to ask yourself is which team would suffer more if their MVP candidate wasn't or suddenly not available anymore. Imo, the Angels would suffer more if Trout was missing from their line up.

[GD]

What you have to ask yourself is which team would suffer more if their MVP candidate wasn't or suddenly not available anymore. Imo, the Angels would suffer more if Trout was missing from their line up.

 

So you're saying you have to compare the difference if Donaldson was replaced by Andy Burns and if Trout was replaced by Colin Cowgill?

 

That's WAR, by the way. That's the entire concept of WAR. ONE OF US. ONE OF US.

[Spanky99]

Honest Trailers did a pretty good job of summing it up. It's two hours of utter tedium and a few way too dark scenes with Godzilla.

 

 

lol...that was pretty funny.

[TheHurl]

I'm not going to argue who deserves it as most of that has been covered somewhere and if the season ended today both are solid candidates, but from a BBWAA perspective Trout leads all the hitting stats except for RBI's. Also Blue Jays supporting staff has better hitting stats than the Angels supporting staff (for those writers that view it as "Most Valuable" over "Best Player"). So Donaldson needs one of two things to happen to win: Get ahead in some more hitting stats or be a story. Right now the Jays are a story...Donaldson isn't a story around the league.

[Caper]

That logic is really quite dumb.

 

 

No it's not. You're confusing MVP award with highest WAR award. It's not the highest WAR award.

[Jimcanuck]

it's close. i was thinking because donny plays in canada, trout will win easily, but.....

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=al&qual=y&type=6&season=1987&month=0&season1=1987&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

[Stangstag]

No it's not. You're confusing MVP award with highest WAR award. It's not the highest WAR award.

 

Most Valuable Player

 

Does WAR not tell us which players are most valuable? Thats kinda why the stat exists.

[KingKat]

Most Valuable Player

 

Does WAR not tell us which players are most valuable? Thats kinda why the stat exists.

 

But why does the award exist? The award exists so that writers can reinforce the narratives that they create which is why when you look at the history of the award, you'll see constant goal post shifting as to what the criteria actually are.

[Mac Outlaw]

I think unless JD clearly takes it from Trout, then the writers are going to give it to Trout. Trout has a legit case that he should have won it three times in a row, and he's only won it once. Don't underestimate the "make up" vote. JD is new to the discussion, he has to pay his dues.

 

This also assumes that the Angels make the playoffs. If they don't, then JD's path just got a lot easier.

[Olerud363]

I'm not going to argue who deserves it as most of that has been covered somewhere and if the season ended today both are solid candidates, but from a BBWAA perspective Trout leads all the hitting stats except for RBI's. Also Blue Jays supporting staff has better hitting stats than the Angels supporting staff (for those writers that view it as "Most Valuable" over "Best Player"). So Donaldson needs one of two things to happen to win: Get ahead in some more hitting stats or be a story. Right now the Jays are a story...Donaldson isn't a story around the league.

 

Things may have changed since 1993. That was actually a comparable MVP race, it should of been between Olerud and Griffey, Instead Thomas and Molitor were 1/2. Basically because of the factors you state.

 

1. Olerud was a huge story when he was challenging .400, but slumped a bit in the last few weeks and didn't get headlines.

2. Thomas and Molitor got their counting stats (hit, homers, rbis) above Olerud's

3. Blue Jays supporting staff was better (Molitor, Alomar).

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=1993&month=0&season1=1993&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

[saskjayfan]

Most Valuable Player

 

Does WAR not tell us which players are most valuable? Thats kinda why the stat exists.

 

fWAR does not take the FYSMC into account which should be worth at least .5 WAR..no?

[Slade]

I feel like Josh Donaldson is the kind of guy who if he doesn't win will use that to fuel himself next year until he wins. I still want him to win cause he's been our guy all season long but right now the numbers dictate that Trout is the MVP.

[G-Snarls]

I think unless JD clearly takes it from Trout, then the writers are going to give it to Trout. Trout has a legit case that he should have won it three times in a row, and he's only won it once. Don't underestimate the "make up" vote. JD is new to the discussion, he has to pay his dues.

 

This also assumes that the Angels make the playoffs. If they don't, then JD's path just got a lot easier.

 

Donaldson was #4 and #8 in MVP voting the last 2 seaons in Oakland and in consecutive all star games. He's not new to the discussion.

[Spanky99]

These awards are baseball's PR to invest in debate and intrigue, nothing more, it's good for baseball.

[Mac Outlaw]

Donaldson was #4 and #8 in MVP voting the last 2 seasons in Oakland and in consecutive all star games. He's not new to the discussion.

 

I disagree. I'm talking about having a legitimate shot at winning it. 8th place is miles out and while the 4th place finish sounds nice, he only received one first place vote. Trout and Cabrera were the only ones in the discussion that year.