John Gibbons Thread (+ Venting)

[nextyear]

This argument is complete rubbage. Goins is not a heavyweight hitter but he does have 26 RBI's this year in 226 plate appearances - http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/goinsry01.shtml . People are excited to be getting Ben Revere from the Phillies and he only has 26 RBI's in 388 plate appearances - http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/reverbe01.shtml .

 

Pillar has the speed to turn a sacrifice bunt into a hit even if the aim is a sac bunt. However, the sac bunt was a logical move rather it worked or not, and whether it was Goins or not. I think the worst thing that could have happened would have been if Gibbons had replaced Goins at 2B with Valencia for his bat since that might have cost the game on defense.

 

All this garbage about Travis being such a plus for the team is also garbage. Travis doesn't have the sure hands or range that Goins has at 2nd base, Travis is just a better hitter not a better defender. When Goins took over from Travis at 2B, when Travis was first injured, the team record improved, it didn't get worse. Once Travis got back the team record got worse (this was before all the player improvements to the team so the circumstances were similar).

 

I am so fed up with all this focus on algebraically determining WAR which illogically puts less weight on defense than offense. If people want to know WAR then calculate it directly, otherwise just call it something else. The way to determine a true value for Wins Above Replacement is to determine it with the player in question playing versus not playing under similar circumstances.

 

Goins scored two runs and had a hit that started the 3 run rally, yet he is being picked on. Smoak was 0 for 5 with 3 strikeouts and hit into a double play, yet Goins is the one being singled out. No one is saying that Colabello should have been at 1B.

 

I can't understand fans who complain when the team is winning. How can anyone complain about Gibbons' moves in the game last night?

Edited August 1, 2015 by nextyear

[Kevin9394]

When Goins took over from Travis at 2B, when Travis was first injured, the team record improved, it didn't get worse. Once Travis got back the team record got worse...

 

I noticed that and agree with the above FACT. I just don't understand all the hatreds toward Goins. His defence make everybody around him play better.

Remember people says pitching & defence win games. There was one play toward the end of the game completed by Tulo that if Reyes was there, it could be a hit or error. God knows what would have happened then.

[SaskJaysFan_2]

I get leading Tulo off in the order for the simple reason he gets more at bats. But I wonder if it might not be a better idea to have Revere up there until Travis is healthy. At least against righties. Just a thought.

[BigCecil]

If he walked more, and his OBP wasn't around .330 I might agree.

 

Besides, the leadoff hitter only leads of the game. Having Revere bat 9th would essentially accomplish the same thing as the game progressed.

 

Either 1 or 9 works. We just went through most of year with Reyes whose BB rate was also way down.. 310 is OBP so although Revere doesn't walk enough his speed negates that negative some.

[nextyear]

This team is better with with Travis stop being dumb. With that being said Goins at second base for a couple weeks isn't going to kill us. I just hope we plan to bring up another middle infielder to platoon.

 

 

Call me whatever you want, if the Blue Jays go on an extended winning streak while Travis is out then I won't be one of the ones wanting to replace Goins when Travis comes back.

 

Goins won't lead the Blue Jays to the playoffs (that will likely be players such as Donaldson, Bautista, Tulowitzki, and Martin, with good starting and bullpen pitching) but he is an important piece on defense and just needs to be mediocre on offense because of all the other strong offensive players.

 

If you want to call me dumb go ahead, but what do you think about a player such as Roberto Alomar giving praise to Goins (a couple of years ago)? Here are some opinions:

 

ESPN Goins: He had eight defensive runs saved in May, the most by any shortstop. That was twice as many as the player with the next-most at the position (Brandon Crawford). Goins finished the month with 13 Good Fielding Plays and 2 Defensive Misplays and Errors. His 6.5-to-1 ratio was the best for the month among shortstops. (source: http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/58869/arenado-the-best-defensive-player-in-may )

 

Roberto Alomar: "I think he's going to be great," (source: http://www.therecord.com/sports-story/4408066-alomar-told-jays-to-give-goins-a-chance/)

 

Roberto Alomar: Alomar was clearly impressed by what he has seen from the rookie Goins. Commenting on how Goins displays stellar footwork and a good eye for the ball is music to the ears of Blue Jays fans all over the country. When a Hall of Famer likes what you’ve done, you can’t go wrong. Especially when it comes to Robbie Alomar, arguably the greatest second baseman to ever play the game. (source: http://www.rantsports.com/mlb/2013/09/13/toronto-blue-jays-ryan-goins-should-be-2nd-baseman-of-the-future/)

 

John Lott of the National Post And if stats-minded fans want to dig deep enough into the byzantine world of FanGraphs.com, they can find evidence that Goins is already the best second baseman in baseball, small sample size be damned. (source: http://news.nationalpost.com/sports/mlb/blue-jays-ryan-goins-raises-the-bar-on-defence-with-dazzling-plays) NOTE: this is an old story from September 2013 but I am sure that Goins' defense hasn't diminshed since then.

[Followthelight]

Call me whatever you want, if the Blue Jays go on an extended winning streak while Travis is out then I won't be one of the ones wanting to replace Goins when Travis comes back.

 

Goins won't lead the Blue Jays to the playoffs (that will likely be players such as Donaldson, Bautista, Tulowitzki, and Martin, with good starting and bullpen pitching) but he is an important piece on defense and just needs to be mediocre on offense because of all the other strong offensive players.

 

If you want to call me dumb go ahead, but what do you think about a player such as Roberto Alomar giving praise to Goins (a couple of years ago)? Here are some opinions:

 

ESPN Goins: He had eight defensive runs saved in May, the most by any shortstop. That was twice as many as the player with the next-most at the position (Brandon Crawford). Goins finished the month with 13 Good Fielding Plays and 2 Defensive Misplays and Errors. His 6.5-to-1 ratio was the best for the month among shortstops. (source: http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/58869/arenado-the-best-defensive-player-in-may )

 

Roberto Alomar: "I think he's going to be great," (source: http://www.therecord.com/sports-story/4408066-alomar-told-jays-to-give-goins-a-chance/)

 

Roberto Alomar: Alomar was clearly impressed by what he has seen from the rookie Goins. Commenting on how Goins displays stellar footwork and a good eye for the ball is music to the ears of Blue Jays fans all over the country. When a Hall of Famer likes what you’ve done, you can’t go wrong. Especially when it comes to Robbie Alomar, arguably the greatest second baseman to ever play the game. (source: http://www.rantsports.com/mlb/2013/09/13/toronto-blue-jays-ryan-goins-should-be-2nd-baseman-of-the-future/)

 

John Lott of the National Post And if stats-minded fans want to dig deep enough into the byzantine world of FanGraphs.com, they can find evidence that Goins is already the best second baseman in baseball, small sample size be damned. (source: http://news.nationalpost.com/sports/mlb/blue-jays-ryan-goins-raises-the-bar-on-defence-with-dazzling-plays) NOTE: this is an old story from September 2013 but I am sure that Goins' defense hasn't diminshed since then.

 

Offense is a thing, Travis is a way better hitter in every area, that easily outweighs the gap between the two defensively. Goins is a near black hole on Offense. The gap between the two offensively is far greater. Travis is also faster on the bathpaths no? here are stats that factor in everything from defense, baserunning, and travis is clearly a better player.

[puphood]

Call me whatever you want, if the Blue Jays go on an extended winning streak while Travis is out then I won't be one of the ones wanting to replace Goins when Travis comes back.

 

Goins won't lead the Blue Jays to the playoffs (that will likely be players such as Donaldson, Bautista, Tulowitzki, and Martin, with good starting and bullpen pitching) but he is an important piece on defense and just needs to be mediocre on offense because of all the other strong offensive players.

 

If you want to call me dumb go ahead, but what do you think about a player such as Roberto Alomar giving praise to Goins (a couple of years ago)? Here are some opinions:

 

ESPN Goins: He had eight defensive runs saved in May, the most by any shortstop. That was twice as many as the player with the next-most at the position (Brandon Crawford). Goins finished the month with 13 Good Fielding Plays and 2 Defensive Misplays and Errors. His 6.5-to-1 ratio was the best for the month among shortstops. (source: http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/58869/arenado-the-best-defensive-player-in-may )

 

Roberto Alomar: "I think he's going to be great," (source: http://www.therecord.com/sports-story/4408066-alomar-told-jays-to-give-goins-a-chance/)

 

Roberto Alomar: Alomar was clearly impressed by what he has seen from the rookie Goins. Commenting on how Goins displays stellar footwork and a good eye for the ball is music to the ears of Blue Jays fans all over the country. When a Hall of Famer likes what you’ve done, you can’t go wrong. Especially when it comes to Robbie Alomar, arguably the greatest second baseman to ever play the game. (source: http://www.rantsports.com/mlb/2013/09/13/toronto-blue-jays-ryan-goins-should-be-2nd-baseman-of-the-future/)

 

John Lott of the National Post And if stats-minded fans want to dig deep enough into the byzantine world of FanGraphs.com, they can find evidence that Goins is already the best second baseman in baseball, small sample size be damned. (source: http://news.nationalpost.com/sports/mlb/blue-jays-ryan-goins-raises-the-bar-on-defence-with-dazzling-plays) NOTE: this is an old story from September 2013 but I am sure that Goins' defense hasn't diminshed since then.

 

Goins defence has only been mildly praised this year. Combine it with Tulo and Donaldson and Smoak the infield becomes tough for any ground ball to get through. His bat is not going to get him much praise but it has even improved since last year but its his defence that contributes in saving runs reducing some of our pitchers deficits. Another contributor is Hendricks who is a absolute beast and has not got his do, he faced the meat of the KC order and never flinched. Hendricks can go 2 innings which sets him perfectly for coming in early when a starter stumbles. This bull pen if managed properly is going to be lights out.

[Deadpool]

... just needs to be mediocre on offense because of all the other strong offensive players.

 

The problem is that he's not even mediocre on offence, he's outright putrid.

[polar bear]

I'm beginning to change my mind on Goins,he's a defensive ace,very comfortable with him at second.

Now if only his bat could come around a wee bit.

[crmr]

If Goins is the worst player in our lineup we're fine. Can't have an all-star everywhere and he brings some big positives

[BigCecil]

I'm beginning to change my mind on Goins,he's a defensive ace,very comfortable with him at second.

Now if only his bat could come around a wee bit.

 

We all keep wishing but we all should know that dog just ain't gonna hunt.

 

As long as he can play + D, get the odd hit and lay down a decent bunt when called upon(he is one guy who gives up an out when he walks to the plate anyway), he will be ok filling in for Travis.

[RealAccountant]

This was never about Goins being in the lineup. 0 wrong with that

 

The problem is that the team sacrifices in hopes that Goins will get a hit. Sort of like setting up the hitter to hit a fly ball to Cola

[nextyear]

I have seen some improvement in Goins' eye at the plate. He is taking more pitches and I think over time this will help his run production. I think that Goins being around so many good hitters can only have a positive influence on him.

 

Goins' base running is not bad. He can score from first on a double (he has done it a couple of times this week). Although he isn't a base stealer he isn't slow; as far as base running goes, I think that he is similar to Travis. Goins doesn't get picked off base the way Carrera did (several times) so he is an intelligent base runner.

 

Goins needs to be able to get the bunt down though.

[RealAccountant]

^ mods

[nextyear]

^ mods

 

You get thanked for "^ mods"? It doesn't take much to please some people.

[polar bear]

This was never about Goins being in the lineup. 0 wrong with that

 

The problem is that the team sacrifices in hopes that Goins will get a hit. Sort of like setting up the hitter to hit a fly ball to Cola

Right now I would as soon have Goins at the plate as Bautista or Smoak.

[Maahfaace]

Call me whatever you want, if the Blue Jays go on an extended winning streak while Travis is out then I won't be one of the ones wanting to replace Goins when Travis comes back.

 

Goins won't lead the Blue Jays to the playoffs (that will likely be players such as Donaldson, Bautista, Tulowitzki, and Martin, with good starting and bullpen pitching) but he is an important piece on defense and just needs to be mediocre on offense because of all the other strong offensive players.

 

If you want to call me dumb go ahead, but what do you think about a player such as Roberto Alomar giving praise to Goins (a couple of years ago)? Here are some opinions:

 

ESPN Goins: He had eight defensive runs saved in May, the most by any shortstop. That was twice as many as the player with the next-most at the position (Brandon Crawford). Goins finished the month with 13 Good Fielding Plays and 2 Defensive Misplays and Errors. His 6.5-to-1 ratio was the best for the month among shortstops. (source: http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/58869/arenado-the-best-defensive-player-in-may )

 

Roberto Alomar: "I think he's going to be great," (source: http://www.therecord.com/sports-story/4408066-alomar-told-jays-to-give-goins-a-chance/)

 

Roberto Alomar: Alomar was clearly impressed by what he has seen from the rookie Goins. Commenting on how Goins displays stellar footwork and a good eye for the ball is music to the ears of Blue Jays fans all over the country. When a Hall of Famer likes what you’ve done, you can’t go wrong. Especially when it comes to Robbie Alomar, arguably the greatest second baseman to ever play the game. (source: http://www.rantsports.com/mlb/2013/09/13/toronto-blue-jays-ryan-goins-should-be-2nd-baseman-of-the-future/)

 

John Lott of the National Post And if stats-minded fans want to dig deep enough into the byzantine world of FanGraphs.com, they can find evidence that Goins is already the best second baseman in baseball, small sample size be damned. (source: http://news.nationalpost.com/sports/mlb/blue-jays-ryan-goins-raises-the-bar-on-defence-with-dazzling-plays) NOTE: this is an old story from September 2013 but I am sure that Goins' defense hasn't diminshed since then.

 

Alomar also f***s hookers without rubbers (AIDS?).....that alone skews what he says or ever said

[LTR]

Alomar also f***s hookers without rubbers (AIDS?).....that alone skews what he says or ever said

 

Yeah, I can't trust that guy after the things I've read.

[RealAccountant]

Yeah, I can't trust that guy after the things I've read.

 

I know you dont have that much experience with women, so I will let you in on a secret.

 

fapping >>>>> Sex with a rubber

 

Whats even the point. Its like going to the movies with a blindfold on.

[Torontojim]

Much like Reyes Gibbons should have never been hired in the first place.

[JFD]

Gibbons blows another one.

[JFD]

there is no defending this clown now with such a great group of players. he's clearly the weakest link.

[5minutesforframing]

Much like Reyes Gibbons should have never been hired in the first place.

 

Much like you should have never made your account Jim

[Swervin81]

Giving Tulo the day off today was really, really f***ing stupid. Kawasaki has the range of a statue and that horrendous range was directly responsible for 2 runs this game with ball hit right through the shift because of his non-existent range. But no, Gibbons, you thought it was a good idea to get him in and sit Tulo during a stretch drive... like, f***ing seriously.

[FireAlexAnthopoulos]

There are no excuses left anymore. AA finally pulled his head out of his ass and cobbled together a good team and this career loser of a manager is still finding ways to blow games.

 

That being said, AA is not totally off the hook here: I wasn't crazy about wasting assets on a relief pitcher when bullpens are the flukiest part of baseball, and Lowe hasn't exactly proven my gut feeling wrong yet.

[Stangstag]

There are no excuses left anymore. AA finally pulled his head out of his ass and cobbled together a good team and this career loser of a manager is still finding ways to blow games.

 

That being said, AA is not totally off the hook here: I wasn't crazy about wasting assets on a relief pitcher when bullpens are the flukiest part of baseball, and Lowe hasn't exactly proven my gut feeling wrong yet.

 

Hahaha. 1 game bruh.

[Daniel Labude]

The worst was keeping Lowe in the game as he gave up 3 runs...should have went to a different reliever quicker.

[comeon sense]

Didnt see the game until the 6th inning... what did i miss?

Never mind-lol.

Should Gibbons be fired for sure if this team doesn,t make it to a WC game?

Do we extend him if we win the division,and/or win a series ?

[CrackerJack]

Didnt see the game until the 6th inning... what did i miss?

Never mind-lol.

Should Gibbons be fired for sure if this team doesn,t make it to a WC game?

Do we extend him if we win the division,and/or win a series ?

 

if the Jays play well over the next couple of months then Gibbons will be back.

if they don't, he won't.

simple as that.

[BigCecil]

There are no excuses left anymore. AA finally pulled his head out of his ass and cobbled together a good team and this career loser of a manager is still finding ways to blow games.

 

That being said, AA is not totally off the hook here: I wasn't crazy about wasting assets on a relief pitcher when bullpens are the flukiest part of baseball, and Lowe hasn't exactly proven my gut feeling wrong yet.

 

A lot of heavy games still to come against MINN and the AL East. That arm that wasn't great today will be needed and effective all said and done. It's one game.