John Gibbons Thread (+ Venting)

[Frenchsoup]

How hasn't Bo Schultz been good? From what I've seen he's been fine.

 

Say what you want about Colabello's defence, but his offence is one of the reasons why the past month has been generally good for the Jays.

 

Schultz has a 4.19 SIERA, not really what you want in high leverage situations. I'd be fine with Bello at first if we didn't have Smoak, but we do and Smoak is the overall better player.

[Deadpool]

Colabello OPS in june : .767 and dropping fast.

 

.301/.333/.434 in June, 112 wRC+... Still above average, but cooling off from the crazy tear he was on before.

[Frenchsoup]

I think Castro should have been in A ball to start the season, but it wasn't Gibbons that had him up... He was good for a bit, then he got less good and was removed from high leverage situations. You can argue that he should have had a shorter leash, but you can say that Gibbons stuck with him for months, maybe 2 or 3 games longer than he should have, tops.

 

Goins was in LF because we don't have a LF, and the other option was Zeke...

 

Portabello is still hitting. He wasn't in the field today, AND we don't have a f***ing left fielder right now. He still has a 147 wRC+, and is sitting at 0.4 WAR in limited playing time.

 

Valencia is probably one of the better fielders on the team, I have no issue with him being used...

 

Navarro is s***, I can't really justify him being used much.

 

Schultz has 0.2 WAR in 12 innings this year. Can't really fathom how someone would have had any issue with him in any way.

 

I still think Smoak is hurt, so...

 

Zeke is better then Goins.

Portabello near 200PA's with the ridiculous babip and he's still near replacement.

Valencia is a terrible outfielder, and a below avg infielder.

Schultz might be worth 0.2 war but should that shoot him up into high leverage roles?

If i was a betting man, I'd bet Smoak isn't hurt.

[intentional wok]

This thread has more s*** and garbage in it than Toronto's sewers. You know that whiff of stench you sometimes get on Front street? That's from half the posts in this thread.

[Anti and uncle pit bull]

Why haven't reporters asked about Smoak?

[Olerud363]

Hey Olerud, guess what. Maybe Goins makes a diving catch in LF to win the game 4-3.

 

Maybe Goins goes 2-3 with a double.

 

Maybe Goins cuts a ball off in the gap to hold Mookie to a single instead of a double.

 

See what I did there?

 

What you've done is brought up a good point. There are scenarios where Goins saves the game with his defense., there are scenarios where Goins even wins the game with his bat.

 

The only way to know who will win more games is to count all the different scenarios Goins and Colabello have been in...also track all the scenarios similar players have been in.

 

That's how stats work.

 

I only use "hypotheticals" to try to convey how the stats are working. Colabello hits homer to win game... that is in the stats. Goins makes diving catch, in the stats. Goins strikes out with runner in motion double play, put it in the books.

 

Looking at only a few plays it is apparent there are ways for Goins and Colabello to both win and lose games. To understand who will win or lose more games you have to look at everything they've done in their career and what similar players have done.

 

 

 

When you add it all up it is convenient to put it all in one number like WAR. The stats say Goins shouldn't be in left field.

[glory]

If you play inferior players then your chances of success drops. Maybe not in a single game but definitely over the course of a season. Gibbons routinely does this. Wanting a manager that knows who his best players are is not much to ask for.

[Olerud363]

If you play inferior players then your chances of success drops. Maybe not in a single game but definitely over the course of a season. Gibbons routinely does this. Wanting a manager that knows who his best players are is not much to ask for.

 

Honestly I'm not a Gibbons hater. But Goins in left field??

 

Honestly if you are willing to take a hit on the bat why not Pompey??

 

Pompey's OPS is higher then Goins. We all assume that Pompey isn't really a .194 hitter, and that he'd hit a bit more given time to work out of his slump.

 

If we assume that Pompey's 2015 line is his "true talent", than Pompey is still above Goins as an outfielder. Pompey's a bit better hitter (even hitting .194) and faster, and more experience in the outfield.

 

If we assume that Pompey would get out of the slump, maybe get up to .250...

 

Anyway the point is that if we assume the organization is willing to put a mediocre bat in left in return for defense....

 

Then logically Dalton Pompey should be in left, good defense + potential breakout...

 

We can only assume the organization does not use logic.

[Deadpool]

Honestly I'm not a Gibbons hater. But Goins in left field??

 

Honestly if you are willing to take a hit on the bat why not Pompey??

 

Pompey's OPS is higher then Goins. We all assume that Pompey isn't really a .194 hitter, and that he'd hit a bit more given time to work out of his slump.

 

If we assume that Pompey's 2015 line is his "true talent", than Pompey is still above Goins as an outfielder. Pompey's a bit better hitter (even hitting .194) and faster, and more experience in the outfield.

 

If we assume that Pompey would get out of the slump, maybe get up to .250...

 

Anyway the point is that if we assume the organization is willing to put a mediocre bat in left in return for defense....

 

Then logically Dalton Pompey should be in left, good defense + potential breakout...

 

We can only assume the organization does not use logic.

 

I'm with you on Pompey being the everyday LF (well... CF, but I don't see them moving Pillar right now) but, my assumption is that they feel that Pompey will be a better long term player with more time in the minors right now, not that they don't realize that Goins is not a good option in LF.

[BigCecil]

How hasn't Bo Schultz been good? From what I've seen he's been fine.

 

Say what you want about Colabello's defence, but his offence is one of the reasons why the past month has been generally good for the Jays.

 

Small sample size but BO has been better than I expected. 29 yr old rookie who bounced around with a good arm. Lets hope he is another find like Hendricks and finds a home in our pen.

 

Collabello is regressing like everyone knew he would but he is still getting some hits and he doesn't hurt us as much at 1st. Smoak has to be hurt to be getting no ABs.

[Olerud363]

I'm with you on Pompey being the everyday LF (well... CF, but I don't see them moving Pillar right now) but, my assumption is that they feel that Pompey will be a better long term player with more time in the minors right now, not that they don't realize that Goins is not a good option in LF.

 

If the red sox come back into the race and we end up watching smug Farrell smirk through the playoffs one of the differences will be the treatment of Betts vs. Pompey

 

Betts bottomed out with a .190 average in April, very similar to Pompey. 10 days ago he was still hitting horrible... last 10 days he's raised his OPS by 100 points and looks like a good young piece.

 

Pompey would of likely done the same.

 

Red Sox - "Believed in Betts"

Jays - "threw Pompey overboard after the first slump"

 

And I don't care what the explanation is... whether you think Pompey's k rate was to high, or he shrugged his his shoulders the wrong way after a strikeout.

 

IF you put a young player on the opening day roster you have to ride out the slumps. If you are not willing to ride out the slump don't put him on the opening day roster.

[Boxcar]

If the red sox come back into the race and we end up watching smug Farrell smirk through the playoffs one of the differences will be the treatment of Betts vs. Pompey

 

Betts bottomed out with a .190 average in April, very similar to Pompey. 10 days ago he was still hitting horrible... last 10 days he's raised his OPS by 100 points and looks like a good young piece.

 

Pompey would of likely done the same.

 

Red Sox - "Believed in Betts"

Jays - "threw Pompey overboard after the first slump"

 

And I don't care what the explanation is... whether you think Pompey's k rate was to high, or he shrugged his his shoulders the wrong way after a strikeout.

 

IF you put a young player on the opening day roster you have to ride out the slumps. If you are not willing to ride out the slump don't put him on the opening day roster.

 

Betts has way more talent than Pompey. Get real.

[fireballW]

Betts has way more talent than Pompey. Get real.

 

What a useful response.

[Olerud363]

Betts has way more talent than Pompey. Get real.

 

The problem with this board is that since we all love to slam each other at ever opportunity there is no room for nuance.

 

If I started a "Pompey better then Betts, no question!!" thread I would get the same reaction as a "Red Sox handled Betts properly, Jays did not handle Pompey properly"

 

So your saying that since Betts is better he should be allowed to ride out a slump?? That Betts can hit under .200 for 20 games, but Pompey can't??

 

What do you tell Pompey on opening day

 

Dear Pompey - You have made the team but your are no Mookie Betts, you are not that talented... therefore we won't allow you to ride out any slumps.. you better start out hot... or else you're out a here. If you were good like Mookie Betts we'd give you more rope.. since you aren't that talented don't slump.

 

Thanks - Blue Jays Management.

[Boxcar]

What a useful response.

 

Yeah it was useful since apparently this guy isn't aware that Mookie Betts is a) major league ready (proved all he could in the minors, unlike Pompey) and is far more talented. There is no equating the situations.

[Brownie19]

The problem with this board is that since we all love to slam each other at ever opportunity there is no room for nuance.

 

If I started a "Pompey better then Betts, no question!!" thread I would get the same reaction as a "Red Sox handled Betts properly, Jays did not handle Pompey properly"

 

So your saying that since Betts is better he should be allowed to ride out a slump?? That Betts can hit under .200 for 20 games, but Pompey can't??

 

What do you tell Pompey on opening day

 

Dear Pompey - You have made the team but your are no Mookie Betts, you are not that talented... therefore we won't allow you to ride out any slumps.. you better start out hot... or else you're out a here. If you were good like Mookie Betts we'd give you more rope.. since you aren't that talented don't slump.

 

Thanks - Blue Jays Management.

 

 

I don't think they went into the season with this mentality. However, after seeing that Pompey was about to cry after every failed at bat - they decided he was not mentally strong enough to work his way out of the slump. I'm not sure you can fault the Jays for not being able to know how he'd react during his first slump at the ML level (everyone is different and working your way out of a slump in AA is a lot different than it is in the big show). Let's be honest, he couldn't work his way out of the slump in AAA - what makes you think he was ever going to in the majors?

 

I hope he's working his tail off now and has learned from his mistakes.

[Olerud363]

Yeah it was useful since apparently this guy isn't aware that Mookie Betts is a) major league ready (proved all he could in the minors, unlike Pompey) and is far more talented. There is no equating the situations.

 

Jesus christ... I was only saying that if you are patient with a young player they often get out of the slump. I was trying to illustrate that with Betts.

 

I'll be more careful in the future.

 

Dear Boxy -- I am writing you about my opinion that young players can get out of a slump... the enclosed trancsript is 344 pages long. Sorry about the length but I had to try and anticipate all the ways you will slam me in attempt to prove your mental superiority. I have added 134 clauses and exceptions to my opinions. - Thank you

[BigCecil]

This thread has more s*** and garbage in it than Toronto's sewers. You know that whiff of stench you sometimes get on Front street? That's from half the posts in this thread.

 

This whole thread is full retard and it should be locked imo. Derp.

[KingKat]

Yeah it was useful since apparently this guy isn't aware that Mookie Betts is a) major league ready (proved all he could in the minors, unlike Pompey) and is far more talented. There is no equating the situations.

 

Yeah but I'm not so sure that you can't make the argument that Pompey should have been given the same rope as Betts even though he's clearly not as good.

[Brownie19]

This whole thread is full retard and it should be locked imo. Derp.

 

I thought my last point was excellent.

[glory]

This whole thread is full retard and it should be locked imo. Derp.

 

Never. As long as Gibbons is wobbling around the Jays dugout, this thread shall live on.

[Boxcar]

Yeah but I'm not so sure that you can't make the argument that Pompey should have been given the same rope as Betts even though he's clearly not as good.

 

There is more reason to "believe in Betts" being ML ready was my point and you put up with his slump because you know he has the talent to be a first division CF, something Pompey probably isn't. I agree that if the FO decided to go with Pompey from the get go that they should have given him more rope but I wasn't a fan of that decision in the first place.

[LTR]

This thread just keeps getting dummner

[Daniel Labude]

This thread just keeps getting dummner

 

Don't know how they got off track

[LTR]

Don't know how they got off track

 

FYRE GIBBERS, Do IT nOWWWW

 

Annnd we're back!

[baubau]

Once Pompey admitted he was playing "scared", he played himself out of the position. I think the Jays did mishandle him in that he shouldn't have been up to start with, not his demotion. Hindsight is 20/20, I thought that Pompey was able to handle himself after last season's performance and early spring training. Think Keith Law and other "pundits" thought the same so the Blue Jays weren't completely out of blue when he was up.

 

The comments about being away from the media is also a little concerning, but I am putting stock into something I know nothing about so it doesn't say much. Either way, hopefully he is able to build his way back. Solid so far for NH.

[Frenchsoup]

Smoak out of the lineup again Bello in LF Edwin at 1b Valencia at 3b, enjoy everyone.

[baubau]

Smoak out of the lineup again Bello in LF Edwin at 1b Valencia at 3b, enjoy everyone.

 

With a lefty on the mound today? This is more defensible than Goins at LF last night, leaving Smoak on the bench instead of 1B.

If Smoak isn't in tomorrow however, that will suck!

[jaysfan2014]

Smoak out of the lineup again Bello in LF Edwin at 1b Valencia at 3b, enjoy everyone.

 

And Donaldson getting a half-day off by DHing. Got to put our best lineup out there vs. left-handers.

[Frenchsoup]

You have 4 out 5 infielders that are below avg defenders and one giant butcher in the outfield, this is going to be an ugly game. Gibby don't value defense though so you guys can live and die with him.