The Bullpen

[RealAccountant]

Lot of people jumping the gun here. Its been 3 games

[Caper]

Saunders return is bad news right now. Pillar is playing a good baseball; maybe he could steal some playing time from Pompey

 

 

It's funny watching Pillar bat. He struggles so hard to not be a free swinger. He is showing more patience. But it's a real struggle for him. Travis shows so much maturity at the plate. Battles so hard.

[ElNik2013]

Loup FIP

Vs L 3.09

Vs R 3.48

 

edit: Hynes is f***ing awesome

 

 

If Hynes does the job as loogy and Loup has a typical season, I hope AA sells high on Loup.

 

 

We'll see what happens, I'm not that concerned about the bp to be honest.

[KingKat]

If he doesn't turn it around quick, Loup will be sent down. I'm pretty sure he has options (not positive though).

 

RosterResource.com says he does.

 

http://www.rosterresource.com/mlb-toronto-blue-jays/

[flafson]

Lot of people jumping the gun here. Its been 3 games

 

It's not that, it's the fact that if we didn't have Castro and Osuna in those 3 games, instead of a 2-1 record it would have been 0-3 record. That's a big red flag in my opinion.

[spats]

Pedro Martinez was on MLB tv last night and man this guy knows pitching. He masterfully broke down Harvey and Strasburg. At the end of the show they asked him which young pitcher he likes the most...his answer was Castro with one caveat...go slow with this kid, he is special.They also had high praise for Travis and his baseball IQ. Edited April 10, 2015 by spats

[bendera3]

It's not that, it's the fact that if we didn't have Castro and Osuna in those 3 games, instead of a 2-1 record it would have been 0-3 record. That's a big red flag in my opinion.

 

But we do have them. That's why they wear blue shirts that say Blue Jays on them.

[KingKat]

It's not that, it's the fact that if we didn't have Castro and Osuna in those 3 games, instead of a 2-1 record it would have been 0-3 record. That's a big red flag in my opinion.

 

That's a stretch... We don't know that the people replacing Castro and Osuna wouldn't also be effective. Whether it was necessary to include them is still entirely debattable but at least it's working out and that's no doubt a good thing and it does somewhat vindicate the decision if not entirely settle the debate.

[fireballW]

Guys in basketball and hockey, two much more physical sports can do great at 18 or 19 but everyone still worries about 20 year old relievers. Funny thing is that a lot of those ppl are the same ones who like to make fun of guys like Harold Reynolds for all his old school thinking. These kids have control, they are fine. Props to AA to have the balls to put them on the team and go against old school theory. Props to Gibbons for the way he managed the team over the first three days. Also I am excited that AA seems to be one of the first guys to be hinting that he is going to get away from completely stressing over IP. Guys get injured more than ever with these things in place. Use them while they are healthy and effective.

[RealAccountant]

It's not that, it's the fact that if we didn't have Castro and Osuna in those 3 games, instead of a 2-1 record it would have been 0-3 record. That's a big red flag in my opinion.

 

You honestly don't know that

[Spanky__99]

Figure this deserves it's own thread since it'll be a hot topic for this team all year.

 

To get it started, what do you guys think of Miguel Castro as closer? To be honest I thought the closer role was going to be a huge handicap, but Castro is making me a believer. It's been a while since we had a guy like him, a 20 year old pure pen type with nasty ass stuff. That 90 MPH cutter or whatever it was compliments his high 90s heat beautifully and he can be counted on to throw strikes.

 

Yer dumn

[Spanky__99]

It's his changeup at like 89mph.

 

I'd prefer Castro as a guy who can get more than 3 outs most nights. I want to see him pitch 80+ innings out of the pen if he's a reliever all year.

 

Hopefully he doesn't get cemented into a traditional "closer" gig in the 9th inning. If it's Pedroia-Ortiz-Hanley in the 7th inning I would want Castro coming out of that pen

 

Definitely.

[Spanky__99]

The interesting thing is Alex probably gave the go ahead on giving Castro a big work load. I don't think he wants him piching tons of back to back days but they still want him to build up some innings as hes still being thought of as a starter. He has 2 above average pitches with an excellent change for a third one. He throws them all for strikes. I mean with Hoffman coming as well our starting situation will look pretty interesting. The depth will open up some trade options and we all think eventually Sanchez is most likely to end up in the pen.

 

Stroman

Norris

Hutchison

Castro

Hoffman

 

With Sanchez and Osuna and plenty more to come. We can all fap to this.

 

Yer dumner

[KingKat]

Guys in basketball and hockey, two much more physical sports can do great at 18 or 19 but everyone still worries about 20 year old relievers.

 

The worries for the most part aren't about whether they can cut it as a relievers. Most acknowledge that they very well might. Most of the debate centers around the relative merits of burning option year to have them in the MLB bullpen as opposed to just continuing to develop them as starters.

[flafson]

You honestly don't know that

 

Of course not but it sure felt like it.

I was just fine with this bullpen knowing Loup and Cecil are the same they were last year, if they are the same as in those 3 games, we are screwed.

[Spanky__99]

Loup faced LHB's?

 

Anyhow...

[SaskJaysFan_2]

I like Castro as closer and Cecil as setup guy

 

Oh and Loop packaged in a deal with Navarro for a good arm

 

I don't want to lose Loup. Depends on who we get back, though. I would almost (repeat, almost) just DFA Navarro at this point.

[Governator]

Bullpen would sure have looked nicer with Sanchez in it.

[SaskJaysFan_2]

Bullpen would sure have looked nicer with Sanchez in it.

 

Having Sanchez AND Castro in the 'pen would be fun. A pre-pubescent Ward/Henke duo.

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

There's always next year! Lol

[ElNik2013]

We all said the same of him last September and he didn't even get a call.

 

Delabar is on this team's shitlist for some reason.

 

 

Last year, it had something to do with his s***** season and it's not like he did well in AAA.

 

They probably don't like that every time they've demoted him (last year and this spring), he's bitched about it.

 

He was better this spring, but one could argue Schultz was better than him.

[Deadpool]

Listen to son of flaf. He has seen the future... And it rhymes with mastro and brosuna.

 

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?!

 

cf

[Brownie19]

The worries for the most part aren't about whether they can cut it as a relievers. Most acknowledge that they very well might. Most of the debate centers around the relative merits of burning option year to have them in the MLB bullpen as opposed to just continuing to develop them as starters.

 

Exactly....and whether pitching out of the pen delays their development as a starting pitcher which is significantly more valuable to the team than relief pitchers are.....oh and there's the possibility relieving for a couple of years before trying to transition back to a starter may significantly increase their chance of injury.

 

and...well...never mind.

[RIPEXPOS]

Considering this team is in 'must win now mode", I don't really give a crap about micromanaging option years since our bullpen with Castro and Osuna removed at this point is downright awful.

[Laika]

Considering this team is in 'must win now mode", I don't really give a crap about micromanaging option years since our bullpen with Castro and Osuna removed at this point is downright awful.

 

Definitely. I'd never nickle and dime service time on an arm anyway. Chances are every one of them will get hurt multiple times within a 6 year period of control, giving any team amply opportunity to keep them down on a long rehab and gain that bonus year of control (Toronto did this with Hutch).

[KingKat]

Considering this team is in 'must win now mode", I don't really give a crap about micromanaging option years since our bullpen with Castro and Osuna removed at this point is downright awful.

 

If the choice is between a crappy bullpen and burning options than yeah the later is the better option. The bullpen situation looks worse now than it did at the time the decision was made. Part of that is Cecil not regaining his velocity and Loup looking just plain bad and part of that is self inflicted by not giving much of an opportunity to West and Guilmet and putting Delabar in some strange doghouse (I never understood just handing a job to Delabar as many assumed but I don't understand demoting him either if it's only because has options and is otherwise peforming quite well).

[Sorrow]

We all said the same of him last September and he didn't even get a call.

 

Delabar is on this team's shitlist for some reason.

 

Delabar hasn't been good since the first half of 2013. His second half of 2013 wasn't good, 2014 was terrible and his split was not good this spring.

[Brownie19]

Considering this team is in 'must win now mode", I don't really give a crap about micromanaging option years since our bullpen with Castro and Osuna removed at this point is downright awful.

 

There are other ways to implement a "win now mode" without sacrificing your ability to sustain success....

 

As a fan - I looking for sustained success, not a one year wonder. I realise it's difficult to keep looking long term and that sustaining success is challenging in the majors, but let's be honest - teams do it (St. Louis, SF, Boston, Angels, A's, TB - all have over the past 7-8 years)...and I could be wrong, but I don't think they achieve this by making short sighted decisions to sacrifice the development of their top young players to try and win in a particular year. Just my thoughts.

[GD]

Definitely. I'd never nickle and dime service time on an arm anyway. Chances are every one of them will get hurt multiple times within a 6 year period of control, giving any team amply opportunity to keep them down on a long rehab and gain that bonus year of control (Toronto did this with Hutch).

 

I'd never thought of it like that. Hmm.

 

before you have to say it, yes, I know, you're our great overlord and I am a dumn mortal

[Laika]

I'd never thought of it like that. Hmm.

 

before you have to say it, yes, I know, you're our great overlord and I am a dumn mortal

 

My example was a bit off. They didn't get an extra year of control on Hutch by keeping him down in 2013, but they did keep him from being super 2. Off the DL in early August 2013 but kept on optional assignment the rest of that year and he ended up just short of the super 2 service time cutoff. If they had called him back up in Sept 2013 he would've accrued more service time and been in arb1 this season.

 

Illustrates the same point though.