For those who wanted a "do over" last year - you got it

[G-Snarls]

For all of the Jays apologists who wanted a "do over" for last season, you got it. Wilner et al say last April sunk them and the team was insanely unlucky and if you played the season over with the same roster they'd be competitive.

 

Well here you go. Only 1 or 2 semi meaningful roster changes (new catcher for sure, and maybe but not even definitely a new 2B). Same planned rotation essentially. Same pen. Same potential all stars at 1B, SS, 3B, CF and RF. Same question marks at LF and DH.

 

More time to gel (if they're going to) and no WBC.

 

We'll see how it goes.

[G-Snarls]

For the record I'll count myself among the apologists to a degree. I think April sunk them before they had a chance and they DID get unusually unlucky with injuries.

 

But in retrospect I don't think the team as constructed was ever going to contend with the likes of Boston and Tampa. And I wanted more improvements this year because they were available and it was the right thing to do.

 

But instead we get a do over with 22-23/25 roster spots likely unchanged, team a year older and wiser.

[Boxcar]

The WBC excuse always makes me laugh. Did they only take Blue Jays?

[G-Snarls]

The WBC excuse always makes me laugh. Did they only take Blue Jays?

 

You would think so if you listen to Gibby AA and AA too much

 

It didn't hurt Edwin or Reyes. And the Yankees were hurt more by it than we were.

[ElNik2013]

For the record, I think I picked them to go 90-72 last year, so I admit, my evaluations are crap.

[flafson]

To be fair, Edwin came back banged up a little. He had a sore finger or something for a while.

[ElNik2013]

For the record, I think I picked them to go 90-72 last year, so I admit, my evaluations are crap.

 

 

 

I also thought age would at least start to catch up to Ortiz.

 

I didn't think Napoli's hip would hold up.

 

I didn't think Lackey would be anywhere as good as he was.

 

Etc, etc.

 

 

So, I'll shut up

[saskjayfan]

You would think so if you listen to Gibby AA and AA too much

 

It didn't hurt Edwin or Reyes. And the Yankees were hurt more by it than we were.

 

The Jays lost the most man games in the MLB last year and the Yankees scored 650 runs and allowed 671 runs....they had a very flattering record last year..

[G-Snarls]

I also thought age would at least start to catch up to Ortiz.

 

I didn't think Napoli's hip would hold up.

 

I didn't think Lackey would be anywhere as good as he was.

 

Etc, etc.

 

 

So, I'll shut up

 

You're not alone. No one, and I really pretty much mean no one saw the Red Sox even making the post season, let alone winning the WS.

[Chappy]

Lackey was the biggest surprise for me, never thought he had a chance to last in the rotation.

[G-Snarls]

Lackey was the biggest surprise for me, never thought he had a chance to last in the rotation.

 

Lackey Napoli and Ortiz all just had great years. Red Sox are a well run team. But there WAS some luck in their side last year.

[Chappy]

Lackey Napoli and Ortiz all just had great years. Red Sox are a well run team. But there WAS some luck in their side last year.

 

No question there was luck involved.

[awsomest]

No question there was luck involved.

 

If the jays get as lucky as the Sox last year they win the AL East no problem (not going to happen)

[ElNik2013]

Lackey Napoli and Ortiz all just had great years. Red Sox are a well run team. But there WAS some luck in their side last year.

 

 

 

So a well-run organization left it up to luck? What was their payroll going into last year? Unless it was below $120M (arbitrary number), going into the season with so many question marks seems kind of dumb.

 

 

Anyway...

[ElNik2013]

Lackey was the biggest surprise for me, never thought he had a chance to last in the rotation.

 

 

 

He was their Morrow.

[Frenchsoup]

Lackey Napoli and Ortiz all just had great years. Red Sox are a well run team. But there WAS some luck in their side last year.

 

There whole team played awesome, nava was amazing,victorino was really good iggy was hitting like 350 at one point. The only injury I can think of that really effected them was Clay and there injured closers which ended up helping them

[mitchf]

A "do over" as opposed to Jimenez or Santana?

 

If this core can't perform, what the hell does it matter? Kudos to Blue Jays management for not putting us in a bigger hole, I'm just not sure who's responsible for that and if it's intentional.

[Smokey]

Which f***ing moron actually wanted a do over? The wonderful thing about hindsight is that we now know with certainty the aspects of the roster that the Fat Greek completely neglected, particularly the importance of depth. Yes the starting pitching is deeper now but the positional depth is still being ignored and HOPING for an injury free season when you're trying to compete is pretty foolish to say the least. Not to mention losing JJ who many thought could be the front line pitcher this team desperately needs.

 

Another thing we now know for sure is that the division rivals aren't nearly as weak as many expected them to be last year. Going into the offseason the majority of fans admitted that significant improvements were needed in order to have a realistic chance of going far into the playoffs. Now we're left HOPING that everything works out and that's not realistic in a 162 game season. I honestly don't see how this team can win much more than 81 games without a miracle!

[Chappy]

Which f***ing moron actually wanted a do over? The wonderful thing about hindsight is that we now know with certainty the aspects of the roster that the Fat Greek completely neglected, particularly the importance of depth. Yes the starting pitching is deeper now but the positional depth is still being ignored and HOPING for an injury free season when you're trying to compete is pretty foolish to say the least. Not to mention losing JJ who many thought could be the front line pitcher this team desperately needs.

 

Another thing we now know for sure is that the division rivals aren't nearly as weak as many expected them to be last year. Going into the offseason the majority of fans admitted that significant improvements were needed in order to have a realistic chance of going far into the playoffs. Now we're left HOPING that everything works out and that's not realistic in a 162 game season. I honestly don't see how this team can win much more than 81 games without a miracle!

 

At this point I am just excited about seeing Stroman, Hutch and Nolin get their chances to pitch in the rotation this year. If this team is not contending down the stretch I really hope AA swallows his pride and deals off our aging players.

[GD]

For all of the Jays apologists who wanted a "do over" for last season, you got it. Wilner et al say last April sunk them and the team was insanely unlucky and if you played the season over with the same roster they'd be competitive.

 

Jays record: 74-88

Jays Pytho record: 76-86

Luck: -2 wins

 

"Insanely unlucky"

[G-Snarls]

No Josh Johnson is worth noting in the OP, is he ever a guy I'd like to include in our reroll of last season.

 

God damn I'm still mad we didn't QO him, at the time I took it as we were replacing him with something other than nothing.

 

Excellent point and a major oversight on my part in the original post. Right now I wish he was in the rotation

[G-Snarls]

Jays record: 74-88

Jays Pytho record: 76-86

Luck: -2 wins

 

"Insanely unlucky"

 

I'm talking about compared to projections based on the opening day roster. Not what happened. I guess it's not exactly luck maybe but you know what I mean - what were chances Johnson Morrow and the second basemen would all be so bad and what were chances of so many missed games by good players.

[Smokey]

A "do over" as opposed to Jimenez or Santana?

 

Let's not deceive ourselves into thinking that those two were the only options possibly capable of improving this team.

 

If this core can't perform, what the hell does it matter?

 

Why can't the core perform?????

 

Kudos to Blue Jays management for not putting us in a bigger hole, I'm just not sure who's responsible for that and if it's intentional.

 

Yes lets give them credit for assembling an inefficient team that they gave up on after just one year. Makes complete sense.

[Chappy]

Jays record: 74-88

Jays Pytho record: 76-86

Luck: -2 wins

 

"Insanely unlucky"

 

To be fair, the injuries were substantial and played a significant role. Injuries should always be expected, but even if AA had the necessary depth this team would not have contended simply because they lost too many man games to overcome.

[mitchf]

Which f***ing moron actually wanted a do over? The wonderful thing about hindsight is that we now know with certainty the aspects of the roster that the Fat Greek completely neglected, particularly the importance of depth. Yes the starting pitching is deeper now but the positional depth is still being ignored and HOPING for an injury free season when you're trying to compete is pretty foolish to say the least. Not to mention losing JJ who many thought could be the front line pitcher this team desperately needs.

 

Another thing we now know for sure is that the division rivals aren't nearly as weak as many expected them to be last year. Going into the offseason the majority of fans admitted that significant improvements were needed in order to have a realistic chance of going far into the playoffs. Now we're left HOPING that everything works out and that's not realistic in a 162 game season. I honestly don't see how this team can win much more than 81 games without a miracle!

This is the sort of mentality I don't understand.

 

CLEARLY based on the last few years, most of what Alex touches turns to s*** and/or he doesn't acquire the players that he should have.

 

Why the hell would you have any confidence in this current front office to follow through with whatever it is you were hoping for? We aren't the Yankees, we aren't the Rays, we aren't even the Mets or Indians. We're a team that can't acquire through trade, can't attract a free agent (mostly because of Alex's track record for getting the worst out of players - and yes I know it's not his fault directly) and more importantly there's a reluctance to pay.

 

It seems to me that the morons around here are the ones that are stuck in 2010. This isn't about fans being right or wrong anymore because no matter what type of fan you are, you're against whatever it is this front office has unraveled into. Get mad at the "team policies" or poor moves made by this team, not fans that are reluctant to see more questionable moves added to what is already a poorly constructed roster.

 

Remember, 2015 is our year. Management will be gutted and once again we can come up with suggestions and our own theories. In the meantime, it's all for naught.

[mitchf]

Let's not deceive ourselves into thinking that those two were the only options possibly capable of improving this team.

Why can't the core perform?????

Yes lets give them credit for assembling an inefficient team that they gave up on after just one year. Makes complete sense.

I'm not convinced any of the other free agents had the name/recognition to be wanted by our front office.

 

It didn't last year.

 

First of all it's ridiculous to assume that everyone in the front office is incompetent. It may just be the interns, but somebody in there is educated and doesn't get any sleep at night based on the results.

Second, the team isn't giving up. They WANT to add, but simply can't.

[Smokey]

This is the sort of mentality I don't understand.

 

CLEARLY based on the last few years, most of what Alex touches turns to s*** and/or he doesn't acquire the players that he should have.

 

Why the hell would you have any confidence in this current front office to follow through with whatever it is you were hoping for? We aren't the Yankees, we aren't the Rays, we aren't even the Mets or Indians. We're a team that can't acquire through trade, can't attract a free agent (mostly because of Alex's track record for getting the worst out of players - and yes I know it's not his fault directly) and more importantly there's a reluctance to pay.

 

It seems to me that the morons around here are the ones that are stuck in 2010. This isn't about fans being right or wrong anymore because no matter what type of fan you are, you're against whatever it is this front office has unraveled into. Get mad at the "team policies" or poor moves made by this team, not fans that are reluctant to see more questionable moves added to what is already a poorly constructed roster.

 

Remember, 2015 is our year. Management will be gutted and once again we can come up with suggestions and our own theories. In the meantime, it's all for naught.

 

It's not really about me having confidence in them, it's about not agreeing with them sitting on the fence. You either believed in the team you built and improve on it, or GTFO and let someone else try to fix the mess. Saving a few million when you're paying MB and Reyes' backloaded contracts doesn't make any sense.

[GeorgiaPeach]

At this point I am just excited about seeing Stroman, Hutch and Nolin get their chances to pitch in the rotation this year. If this team is not contending down the stretch I really hope AA swallows his pride and deals off our aging players.

 

But those aging players sell tickets.

 

We're doomed.

[mitchf]

It's not really about me having confidence in them, it's about not agreeing with them sitting on the fence. You either believed in the team you built and improve on it, or GTFO and let someone else try to fix the mess. Saving a few million when you're paying MB and Reyes' backloaded contracts doesn't make any sense.

Believe me, I agree with this.

 

The problem is, we can't spend a few million strictly because of those backloaded contracts. Alex was too naive to think past 2013.

[ElNik2013]

I'm not convinced any of the other free agents had the name/recognition to be wanted by our front office.

 

It didn't last year.

 

First of all it's ridiculous to assume that everyone in the front office is incompetent. It may just be the interns, but somebody in there is educated and doesn't get any sleep at night based on the results.

Second, the team isn't giving up. They WANT to add, but simply can't.

 

 

 

To be fair, they reportedly offered $75M over 5 years to Anibal Sanchez last off season before they made the Marlins trade.

 

It seems to me "they" didn't want to have the team stink in 2013. There come times in rebuilding phases where you have to be willing to take a step back to take 2 steps forward. I happen to think that this franchise's goal is to provide watchable content for Rogers and having a 90-loss team in 2013 would've meant lower attendance and viewership.