Jays targetting Jeff Samardzija and/or Ryan Hanigan

[kgm1]

People really have to stop pretending we gave up nothing in the Marlins deal. Yunel and Henderson Alvarez are producing in the majors and out-produced the three returned last year. Even if you think he won't produce in the majors, Marisnick could be traded right now for an upgrade over half the Jays team. DiSclafani put up a 5.0 K/BB ratio over 130 innings last year. Number of pitchers in the Jays org who pitched 100 innings and had a 4.0 K/BB or higher...just one (Stroman 4.78). Then there is Hech and Nicolino.

 

We got screwed over in every trade AA made last year . I don't see how anyone can tell me one of those trades last year that AA even has a chance in the future of breaking even .

[kgm1]

I would be shocked if it's Stroman. I'm guessing its Sanchez instead. Stroman is pretty much ready to step into the rotation and we will need that as insurance in AAA. Plus Sanchez probably fits in better with what the Cubs are trying to do with all their lower level prospects and considering he is further away and has the higher potential ceiling, I could see him being moved.

 

I agree that Sanchez is the one AA would want to deal but I won't be surprised if there isn't a decent prospect left in our system above Lansing come July . Even if this team isn't close he will be desperate and scrambling .

[GNick]

I agree that Sanchez is the one AA would want to deal but I won't be surprised if there isn't a decent prospect left in our system above Lansing come July . Even if this team isn't close he will be desperate and scrambling .

 

If AA trades Sanchez for Shark and it doesn't work out Anthopoulos career as executive be over. On top of all the other bad trades and bad contracts he's made. No other team will touch him. Strong chance it doesn't work out because Sanchez has great arm and NL pitchers coming to Rogers haven't worked out well

[Chappy]

If the team doesn't contend in 2014, AA's career will be over anyway. He's desperate.

 

It's pretty obvious his back is painted to a corner. No one on the farm is untouchable. He has to fo what he set out to accomplish at this point and if he fails he is done in Toronto.

[GNick]

If the team doesn't contend in 2014, AA's career will be over anyway. He's desperate.

In Toronto but not MLB

[G-Snarls]

In Toronto but not MLB

 

Special assistant to Ricciardi with the Mets

[GNick]

NL pitchers haven't had overwhelming success coming to Rogers Centre. Sanchez just had an excellent AFL season.

[Chappy]

NL pitchers haven't had overwhelming success coming to Rogers Centre. Sanchez just had an excellent AFL season.

 

The NL central was nothing to sneeze at, lots of good hitters in that division. Let's not kid ourselves, Samardizja is a really good SP. I understand wanting to hold onto Sanchez, I do as well, but odds are he may never be as good as shark. Considering the options available? This would still leave financial flexibility which is important as well. So many here would rather just drop $60 - $75 million on a FA SP, but that too has it's drawbacks if you get stuck with a dud contract.

[Muck Bartinez]

In Toronto but not MLB

 

Head of Statistical Analysis for the Philadelphia Phillies.

 

Amaro - "I'm thinking about bringing back Delmon Young. We need some more power from our corner OF's."

AA - "Hey Ruben I think that's a smart move, his OPS is 30 points above league average."

Amaro - "I don't know what you nerds are talking about, but thanks for the heads up Alex."

[TheHurl]

Rather than Hanigan how about this...

 

Carlos Perez! Astros are leaving him exposed again to the rule 5 draft, if he gets past the White Sox at number 3 (which I somehow think he won't), should the Jays consider taking him back and playing him as their back up this (sending JPA to the minors). His only redeeming offensive tool is that he's tough to strike out (this is a guy that put up a .673 OPS in the PCL) but he threw out 47% of runners and drew rave reviews about his ability to block during every Oklahoma City game I watched last year. As with all Rule 5 draftees, he would have to stay on the 25 man roster all year or get sent back to his original team (Astros). Let him be Dickey's personal catcher, DFA Thole, send JPA down and pick up a starting catcher. I know Perez makes more sense for teams who are "rebuilding" and have an established catcher but I just think this would make more sense than trying to improve defense through a trade and keeping Thole just because we have Dickey.

[GeorgiaPeach]

The NL central was nothing to sneeze at, lots of good hitters in that division. Let's not kid ourselves, Samardizja is a really good SP. I understand wanting to hold onto Sanchez, I do as well, but odds are he may never be as good as shark.

 

If Sanchez was given until 2018 to have a #3/4 type year as a SP in the majors, you'd bet against it?

[Abomination]

Rather than Hanigan how about this...

 

Carlos Perez! Astros are leaving him exposed again to the rule 5 draft, if he gets past the White Sox at number 3 (which I somehow think he won't), should the Jays consider taking him back and playing him as their back up this (sending JPA to the minors). His only redeeming offensive tool is that he's tough to strike out (this is a guy that put up a .673 OPS in the PCL) but he threw out 47% of runners and drew rave reviews about his ability to block during every Oklahoma City game I watched last year. As with all Rule 5 draftees, he would have to stay on the 25 man roster all year or get sent back to his original team (Astros). Let him be Dickey's personal catcher, DFA Thole, send JPA down and pick up a starting catcher. I know Perez makes more sense for teams who are "rebuilding" and have an established catcher but I just think this would make more sense than trying to improve defense through a trade and keeping Thole just because we have Dickey.

 

No harm in claiming him. Let him and Thole catch Dickey in the spring. If he can handle it, DFA Thole. If not, he can be reclaimed by the Astros.

[Terminator]

If Sanchez was given until 2018 to have a #3/4 type year as a SP in the majors, you'd bet against it?

 

I would consider betting against it if for no other reason than young pitchers more often than not seem to not pan out.

[Chappy]

If Sanchez was given until 2018 to have a #3/4 type year as a SP in the majors, you'd bet against it?

 

Yes. Not because I don't think he has the potential, just because most lower level prospects never pan out. Considering the level he is at and his atrocious walk rate, I wouldn't hold my breath on him ever being anything special.

 

While I love the idea of developing a system of ongoing winning with a pipeline of prospects, not all prospects need to be held onto for this approach to succeed. I think many here are just clinging unrealistically to Sanchez like he alone could save the future of this franchise, and that is ludicrous. Acquiring relatively young players with multiple years of control (or extensions) at team friendly contracts can accomplish similar results and buy time for other lower level prospects and draftees to move up the ranks. AA really f***ed things up last winter, but that being said, he can put this team on a better track starting this winter with some key moves geared both toward the now and future state of this franchise.

 

Also, I would much rather hold onto Stroman at this point, in fact, I would be extremely hesitant to deal him off. He may not be labelled with as high of a ceiling, but he is considered to be MLB ready at this point, pitching in the upper minors and with better success. He fits this teams timeline for the now and has long-term implications as well.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Yes. Not because I don't think he has the potential, just because most lower level prospects never pan out. Considering the level he is at and his atrocious walk rate, I wouldn't hold my breath on him ever being anything special.

 

While I love the idea of developing a system of ongoing winning with a pipeline of prospects, not all prospects need to be held onto for this approach to succeed. I think many here are just clinging unrealistically to Sanchez like he alone could save the future of this franchise, and that is ludicrous. Acquiring relatively young players with multiple years of control (or extensions) at team friendly contracts can accomplish similar results and buy time for other lower level prospects and draftees to move up the ranks. AA really f***ed things up last winter, but that being said, he can put this team on a better track starting this winter with some key moves geared both toward the now and future state of this franchise.

 

Also, I would much rather hold onto Stroman at this point, in fact, I would be extremely hesitant to deal him off. He may not be labelled with as high of a ceiling, but he is considered to be MLB ready at this point, pitching in the upper minors and with better success. He fits this teams timeline for the now and has long-term implications as well.

 

I'm just picking your brain here on this and you may have talked about it in the past. All things considered if the Rangers offered up Profar for Bautista with nothing else going either way, would you make that move?

[Chappy]

I'm just picking your brain here on this and you may have talked about it in the past. All things considered if the Rangers offered up Profar for Bautista with nothing else going either way, would you make that move?

 

Its an easy yes for me. I would obviously try to push the fact that Bautista should get more in return, but at the end of the day, Profar is just to great of an asset to pass up. From the standpoint of the Jays, Bautista is an aging asset and injuries have been popping up, so I would rather move him now, save that salary and invest it into either a FA player or extending a player like Rasmus or whatever else young talent we obtain via trade this winter.

[TwistedLogic]

I'm just picking your brain here on this and you may have talked about it in the past. All things considered if the Rangers offered up Profar for Bautista with nothing else going either way, would you make that move?

 

Don't think I'd do that trade if I was either team, just because for the Rangers, they risk losing a ton of potential, and the Jays potentially acquire a lot of risk. Profar could be a stud but he could also be a complete dud. Maybe if I had more numbers and scouting information that these teams actually have, I'd get swayed one way or the other. Bautista himself is looking more and more like a guy who's never going to have another 150 game season.

 

Edit: Then again, Chappy brings up Bautista's salary, which I wasn't accounting for. That might make me favour the trade a bit more, just because of the additional flexibility it could add.

[Frenchsoup]

Don't think I'd do that trade if I was either team, just because for the Rangers, they risk losing a ton of potential, and the Jays potentially acquire a lot of risk. Profar could be a stud but he could also be a complete dud. Maybe if I had more numbers and scouting information that these teams actually have, I'd get swayed one way or the other. Bautista himself is looking more and more like a guy who's never going to have another 150 game season.

 

Rangers do that in a second, there ready to win now and Profar may or may not contribute.

[kgm1]

Even odds I'd bet against Sanchez ever having a 3-WAR season.

 

Probably a good bet BUT teams can't just keep trading off their pitching prospects . Vargas went for 4years at 8 mil so the cost of a 5th starter is about 8 mil .Unless you have a Dodger budget you have to have so many in the pipeline because of the bust rate . When you trade off one or two and guess wrong , "" Alvarez and Syndergaard "" your f***ed . Free agent cost of a playoff rotation is what 85 million ? Developing starters is key and the Jays were on their way and f***ed it up

[TBJ12]

Don't think I'd do that trade if I was either team, just because for the Rangers, they risk losing a ton of potential, and the Jays potentially acquire a lot of risk. Profar could be a stud but he could also be a complete dud. Maybe if I had more numbers and scouting information that these teams actually have, I'd get swayed one way or the other. Bautista himself is looking more and more like a guy who's never going to have another 150 game season.

 

Edit: Then again, Chappy brings up Bautista's salary, which I wasn't accounting for. That might make me favour the trade a bit more, just because of the additional flexibility it could add.

 

Bautista's salary is one of the reasons I'd want more than just Profar.

[Chappy]

Rangers do that in a second, there ready to win now and Profar may or may not contribute.

 

It could actually help both teams win now. Rangers get another big power bat which they probably need and the Jays get Profar which addresses their 2B need now and for the future. Sure Profar is a gamble, but its a gamble that also saves this team $42M over the next three years (assuming Bautista's option is picked up). That allows the Jays for instance to go out and sign a FA SP like Jimenez/Santana at an AAV around that mark. Personally Profar + Jimenez/Santana > Bautista, with payroll remaining in tact.

 

Or perhaps another scenario is that AA trades for Profar, then goes out and deals for Shark for instance. Shark is probably going to make $5-6M through Arbitration this year, and im just going to guess he probably gets $9-10M in 2015 for simplicity sake. That still saves this team about $26-28M over the next three seasons all the while this team is now younger and has addressed a glaring hole at 2B and the rotation. Assuming AA has a budget of ~$150M wo play with, were probably sitting at about a $124M payroll after both trades. This now provides both an opportunity for AA to either dive into FA and acquire another key player or try and lock up both Rasmus and Shark on longer term deals.

 

Personally, I like the second scenario better, even if it requires dealing of Sanchez who I am not that high on anyways. Team gets younger, better and cheaper.

[Chappy]

Bautista's salary is one of the reasons I'd want more than just Profar.

 

We would very likely get more than just Profar, but the scenario was Bautista for Profar straight up and even still I would do that and I think its a win-win for both teams.

[Abomination]

We would very likely get more than just Profar, but the scenario was Bautista for Profar straight up and even still I would do that and I think its a win-win for both teams.

 

Yeah, push come to shove I think I would do it too. First I'd try to get someone like Ogando as well though.

[jaysblue]

If Sanchez was given until 2018 to have a #3/4 type year as a SP in the majors, you'd bet against it?

 

So many things can happen from now till 2018, so I would. Sanchez oozes with potential, though he's just a prospect and he's one that comes with huge risk. If Sanchez ever becomes the pitcher Shark was, I'd be more than happy - though that's far from a guarantee. Plus with the Jays window to supposedly contend over these next two seasons, I'd rather have a pitcher like Shark who is still young and who still has some potential growth over the next 2 seasons then wait on Sanchez to develop into a No. 3-4 by 2018.

[jaysblue]

Yes. Not because I don't think he has the potential, just because most lower level prospects never pan out. Considering the level he is at and his atrocious walk rate, I wouldn't hold my breath on him ever being anything special.

 

While I love the idea of developing a system of ongoing winning with a pipeline of prospects, not all prospects need to be held onto for this approach to succeed. I think many here are just clinging unrealistically to Sanchez like he alone could save the future of this franchise, and that is ludicrous. Acquiring relatively young players with multiple years of control (or extensions) at team friendly contracts can accomplish similar results and buy time for other lower level prospects and draftees to move up the ranks. AA really f***ed things up last winter, but that being said, he can put this team on a better track starting this winter with some key moves geared both toward the now and future state of this franchise.

 

Also, I would much rather hold onto Stroman at this point, in fact, I would be extremely hesitant to deal him off. He may not be labelled with as high of a ceiling, but he is considered to be MLB ready at this point, pitching in the upper minors and with better success. He fits this teams timeline for the now and has long-term implications as well.

 

Agreed. I had this debate with Santos last night. I said I'd rather keep Stroman since he's had success at the higher levels and is an MLB arm versus Sanchez. Stroman might not have the upside Sanchez has though I'd be comfortable to bet Stroman becomes the better pitcher at the MLB level.

[jaysblue]

Probably a good bet BUT teams can't just keep trading off their pitching prospects . Vargas went for 4years at 8 mil so the cost of a 5th starter is about 8 mil .Unless you have a Dodger budget you have to have so many in the pipeline because of the bust rate . When you trade off one or two and guess wrong , "" Alvarez and Syndergaard "" your f***ed . Free agent cost of a playoff rotation is what 85 million ? Developing starters is key and the Jays were on their way and f***ed it up

 

Yeah though there is a difference when it comes to Shark and Dickey. Trading two elite prospects for a 39-year-old knuckleballer was just idiotic.

[Laika]

Yeah though there is a difference when it comes to Shark and Dickey. Trading two elite prospects for a 39-year-old knuckleballer was just idiotic.

 

In context, Dickey was >>>>> Samardzija

[Chappy]

Agreed. I had this debate with Santos last night. I said I'd rather keep Stroman since he's had success at the higher levels and is an MLB arm versus Sanchez. Stroman might not have the upside Sanchez has though I'd be comfortable to bet Stroman becomes the better pitcher at the MLB level.

 

Yeah, I am comfortable saying I expect Stroman to end up being the better of the two as well. I just think he is more of a polished product and this team being in a win now mode could benefit from having a young and polished arm waiting in AAA.

 

Going after a guy like Shark or even Bailey could give us a decent duo of youngsters if Stroman pans out. I don't mind trading prospects like Sanchez when the return is cheap quality MLB players when your trying to compete. Rebuilding is another story, but were not at that stage.

[jaysblue]

In context, Dickey was >>>>> Samardzija

 

I'd take a younger arm like Samardzija over Dickey any day of the week. I didn't expect Dickey to come anywhere close to repeating his success as an NL Cy Young winner especially pitching in the AL East.

[Abomination]

Going after a guy like Shark or even Bailey could give us a decent duo of youngsters if Stroman pans out. I don't mind trading prospects like Sanchez when the return is cheap quality MLB players when your trying to compete. Rebuilding is another story, but were not at that stage.

 

Well, Shark and Bailey don't have much longer until FA, so I don't know if I care about their age so much unless we can extend them. I like both as targets though in general.