Can Ryan Goins stick?

[DuckDuckGose]

We actually have a chance to have a decent bench next year. Kawsaki is a fine bench IF, and Gose should be fine as a bench OF. With can defend all 3 relevant positions, and both can run the bases. Add flexible corner bat and a catcher who isn't Thole or JPA and they'll get some production from the bench.

 

Unfortunately, they'll probably pick up DeRosa's option, keep JA and Thole, and pay Davis to do a job Gose can probably do.

 

AA could do worse than a Thole-Ruiz platoon but, I'd much prefer a legit every day guy like McCann. Gose, Kawasaki, Lind and Thole/Mathis/whoever would be a strong group.

[DuckDuckGose]

*cough* Alexi Ramirez *cough*

 

If he will come ceap then sure. Not a guy I would pay top dollar for at this point though.

[gruber92]

We actually have a chance to have a decent bench next year. Kawsaki is a fine bench IF, and Gose should be fine as a bench OF. With can defend all 3 relevant positions, and both can run the bases. Add flexible corner bat and a catcher who isn't Thole or JPA and they'll get some production from the bench.

 

Unfortunately, they'll probably pick up DeRosa's option, keep JA and Thole, and pay Davis to do a job Gose can probably do.

 

Gose is still young and needs to play every day. He needs another year in AAA,unless somebody gets injured.

[gruber92]

Yeah I know. I try not to apply narratives to splits like that though. I wouldn't be surprised to see him put up a wRC+ of 125 next year, but I also wouldn't be surprised to see another injury-plagued season with below-average offense. Luckily his elite defense gives him a pretty high floor even with the offensive questions.

 

" Luckily his elite defense gives him a pretty high floor even with the offensive questions."

 

I wonder who else that can be applied to..

[gruber92]

His head would probably explode. I would rather him be our 4th OF

 

Gose has the tools and given his age, he can't be given up on yet. Another year in AAA to get regular AB's and the org spends an extra $3.5M on Davis. No big deal.

[GD]

" Luckily his elite defense gives him a pretty high floor even with the offensive questions."

 

I wonder who else that can be applied to..

 

omfg this thread is the best

[G-Snarls]

If you are implying Goins I swear to God...............

 

He means Gose

[gruber92]

Lawrie's bat = Goins' bat, apparently.

 

Lol.. You can't compare floor numbers between the two because of the different numbers that are considered "floor" for their respective positions. Obviously 3B demands more offense and obviously Lawrie has the better bat,but given the offensive demands for each position,the floor numbers are a lot closer than you think if Lawrie has an average offensive season next year.

[Cooler Heads Prevail]

It's silly to write anyone off but, there is no reason to go with Goins as the starting 2B next year b/c of a one game sample. This org is trying to contend, go out and get a starting 2B. Goins has options, he will be there when needed. Let him prove himself over a larger sample as the inevitable injuries hit. Use Kawasaki off the bench and let him play every day in AAA.

 

Goins performance won't really affect their efforts to find a 2B, but its not hard to think about a scenario where they address other concerns in the off season and simply settle on Izterus + best of ( Goins/Kawasaki/minor free agent ). I'm not a big fan of Kawasaki in that role, nice guy but its a business and his defence is suspect in my opinion.

 

Jays state publically that adding a starter is their first priority. I'd like to think finding a new starting CA and moving Cabrera to full time DH are a priority too. Depending on how they achieve this ( eg trading a hitter for a pitcher creates a hole to be filled ), 2B might not be addressed.

[GD]

the floor numbers are a lot closer than you think if Lawrie has an average offensive season next year.

 

LOL omg

 

If Brett Lawrie has an average offensive season next year he'll put up like 2 WAR

 

If Ryan Goins puts up average offensive numbers it'll be a f***ing miracle

[gruber92]

mean 2b wrc+ = 90

mean 3b wrc+ = 97

 

lawrie's zips projection = 110

lawrie's steamer projection = 108

 

goins' zips projection = 64

goins' steamer projection = 66

 

please stop posting.

 

lol..

[GD]

lol..

 

You're funny when you're wrong

[gruber92]

LOL omg

 

If Brett Lawrie has an average offensive season next year he'll put up like 2 WAR

 

If Ryan Goins puts up average offensive numbers it'll be a f***ing miracle

 

That's why I said "if".

[Cooler Heads Prevail]

I disagree... Izturis should be dumped this offseason. Free the salary hes taking, and improve 2B. We had god damn -2.5 war from the second base position this season

 

My posts are based on the idea that Izturis and Cabrera can't be dumped without paying them. You just can't assume you can escape bad contracts. I'd drop both of them if it were practical. Izturis was supposed to be their flexible backup infielder this season, it just didn't work out that way. These contracts make it harder for guys like Lind, Kawasaki, Goins, De Rosa to earn a spot on the roster next year. But one or two of them might sneak by if the Jays are unsuccessful filling their holes, or put all their efforts into fixing pitching.

[gruber92]

Yeah I know. I try not to apply narratives to splits like that though. I wouldn't be surprised to see him put up a wRC+ of 125 next year, but I also wouldn't be surprised to see another injury-plagued season with below-average offense. Luckily his elite defense gives him a pretty high floor even with the offensive questions.

 

" Luckily his elite defense gives him a pretty high floor even with the offensive questions. "

 

Why can't the same thing be said about Goins?

[DuckDuckGose]

My posts are based on the idea that Izturis and Cabrera can't be dumped without paying them. You just can't assume you can escape bad contracts. I'd drop both of them if it were practical. Izturis was supposed to be their flexible backup infielder this season, it just didn't work out that way. These contracts make it harder for guys like Lind, Kawasaki, Goins, De Rosa to earn a spot on the roster next year. But one or two of them might sneak by if the Jays are unsuccessful filling their holes, or put all their efforts into fixing pitching.

 

If Vernon Wells' contract can be moved, any contract can be moved.

[DuckDuckGose]

" Luckily his elite defense gives him a pretty high floor even with the offensive questions. "

 

Why can't the same thing be said about Goins?

 

He doesn't hit enough to have a high floor. His floor is a AAA retread who is out of the game by 28.

[theblujay]

Mean 2B wRC+ = 90

Mean 3B wRC+ = 97

 

Lawrie's ZiPS projection = 110

Lawrie's Steamer projection = 108

 

Goins' ZiPS projection = 64

Goins' Steamer projection = 66

 

Please stop posting.

 

What are those numbers for Goins based on? This year in AAA?

[gruber92]

Furthermore,i don't see why Goins' offensive potential should be written off so quickly. He's less than one year removed of being a good offensive player in three straight minor league seasons. Leading the Eastern league in hits in is a nice accomplishment. Why are these facts never brought to the table? All you guys see is the offensive year he's having in Buffalo and pass judgement only based on that and that alone. Their is talent in there,the question is can he bring enough offensive talent to the bigs to at least land him a spot on the 25 man?

[gruber92]

Lmfao

 

Why do you act like such a blind squirrel? Oh yeah i forgot, Goins hasn't played enough in order for his defense to be properly assessed.

[gruber92]

lol

 

Funny? Your famous for giving players a shot who are not to far removed from quality play.

[Caper]

you're

 

Really? Grammer and spell check to win points? On a message board?

[gruber92]

Correct

 

You also completely overrate his bat, you evaluate his hitting on the 9 games in the MLB he's played this season and throw away his AAA stats like they are nothing

 

And you throw away his AA and A stats like they are nothing. Again, he f***ing led AA in total hits in 2012. Please acknowledge.

[gruber92]

Really? Grammer and spell check to win points? On a message board?

 

Lol.. Hold up...........

 

YOU'RE

[gruber92]

I believe you have mentioned his AA stats a grand whole of 1 time in this thread.

 

Rather than evaluating where he played last season, you should evaluate the highest level of competition he's played at in the minors. That would be AAA. Lot's of players flame out as they reach higher levels, and that's why you can't evaluate a 25 year old on his A ball stats.

 

"I believe you have mentioned his AA stats a grand whole of 1 time in this thread."

 

This just proves you are a selective reader.

[gruber92]

Why does total hits have to do with anything? He had a 105 wRC+ which is just above AA average, and not good enough to translate to the MLB anyways. Most legitimate prospects spend partial seasons at levels and don't have the chance to have 600+ PA at a level to get that many hits.

 

You can't possibly trying to belittle his accomplishment,and no most legitimate prospects do not play partial seasons at the AA level. Some do,but most have full AA seasons under their belt,unless you are talking about elite talent,which shouldn't be brought into the mix.

[Cooler Heads Prevail]

If Vernon Wells' contract can be moved, any contract can be moved.

 

Do you really believe that ? There are plenty of contracts that cannot be moved. Cabrera at $8M I feel cannot be moved. Izturis maybe but unlikely. They could eat the contracts and release these guys, but both are useful at a minimum in a backup role so there is no point.

[Laika]

This is getting annoying. Can't we all just agree to acknowledge the following?

 

- Ryan Goins' chances of ever being a big league regular are extremely slim, yet still existent, because baseball can be kind of crazy.

- It would be pretty ugly for Toronto to pencil him in as the 2B starter for 2014.

- Ryan Goins has looked like a decent defensive infielder through this small major league sample size.

- Ryan Goins probably has the ability to be a decent big league bench player (mostly if he can handle SS in the big leagues, which we don't know yet).

- Ryan Goins should be on the infield depth chart in 2014. There's an argument to be made for starting the year with him on the big league bench.

- Basically every team in baseball has a Ryan Goins. Some teams have multiple Ryan Goinses. Ryan Goinses almost grow on trees.

 

/thread

[JSFIP]

Stfu

 

King you are literally 15 years old.

[JSFIP]

this thread is f***ing hilarious

 

King you are not funny. At all.