Blue Jays hire Jamie Evans....(The Delabar program guy)

[backontop]

[QUOT didn't know Canadians were so dumb. That is all Kawaski gave to the Blue Jays when he was here and you want to keep him? I come up with an idea and you are so stupid you misunderstand. I'm getting sick of Mike Wilners callers, I thought it was because smart callers won't call him, but now I see it is not Mike, its you VERY DUMB baseball fans!!!!!!!!!!! I have to check out the $36.00 special where you can get any other team on that, Detroit or anywhere but Toronto the fans have to be better!!E=Atothe;54358]Cecil has a 0.9 war per Fangraphs. Simply amazing

[backontop]

Teaching the batters how to walk is going to hurt the Jays pitchers arms???????????????????

[imsorry4beatinU]

Jamie Evans huh? I originally came up with the idea of throwing weighted baseballs when I was in High School. It worked, but I made the mistake most people make, "who do I think I am? I could never pitch in the Major Leagues" How you BELEIVE has stopped so many people from being great at many things! Remember a once great man once said if you THINK you can or THINK you can't, you are right. I wish I would have known that fact when I was young.

 

Cool story bro.

[backontop]

Cowboy GD, you should repeat all night "Goddie How da Dougie is a DUMB DUDE"!

[backontop]

Sell high on Lind because like V. Wells he will dog-f*** next year and the year after. Turning Janssen and Cecil into starters would make the fans s***, because they don't know Dellabar and Loup alone are so-called STOPPERS material. And both of them today( Janssen & Cecil) would be starting aces for any other team. They both were originally starters you know. But hey, in 2016 we have SANCHEZ and other good starters, IF THEY DON'T GET HURT! WHICH I'M SURE THEY WILL.

[imsorry4beatinU]

Na na na na Na na na na he..y! Goodbye! Na na na na Na na na na He..y Goodbye..!

[DuckDuckGose]

Not as amazing as it seems.

http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfxo.aspx?playerid=2660&position=P&pitch=FA

Look in 2012, mid 2012 was when he was a starter, end of 2012 is when he was moved to the bullpen. You see his velocity isn't much different than this year.

 

Sure the average fastball velo is only marginally faster in 2013 but Cecil's max velocity is 2-3mph faster and seems to have more movement.

[backontop]

Ya your idea would just hurt the arm more than a regular ball. The whole point of the delabar program is that you dont release the ball.

 

We'll Mr. Gregg, I threw weighted baseballs at home to my brother when I was 17, and in a game I threw so fast no one could catch up with it, if it went accross the plate.

When it went accross the plate, it was so fast no body could see it. The problem was 50% of the time it went accross the plate and 50% of the time it went behind the batter, needless to say there were batters jumping back out of the batters box when I went into my wind up. My downfall was walking too many batters, but thats what pitching coaches are for. And in a small town like I was from, there was no such thing as PITCHING Coaches.

[Caper]

Amazing how baseball will believe is some programs and not other strengthening programs. Jaeger sports comes to mind

 

Are you saying the Jays don't believe in other programs? If so I don't see it that way at all. They have had success and will run with it. I think it's great.

 

I'd like to see some position players on it. Rasmus, Boni, JPA could all use more zip in their throws.

[GD]

This backontop guy would probably be more entertaining if I had any f***ing clue what he was saying.

[eastcoastjaysfan]

Shocked Timmy hasn't worked with this guy yet.

[sachmo55]

Not as amazing as it seems.

http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfxo.aspx?playerid=2660&position=P&pitch=FA

Look in 2012, mid 2012 was when he was a starter, end of 2012 is when he was moved to the bullpen. You see his velocity isn't much different than this year.

 

100% agree with this.

Cecil saw a 3mph increase as a reliever, which isn't all that shocking or surprising.

 

I rememeber looking at Cecil's velocity charts, before they started only showing 3 yrs of data, and I think Cecil actually used to average around 91-92 as a starter during the first half of 2010, before seriously tailing off to being the Cecil we saw the last 2 years.

[wilko]

Great idea!

[DuckDuckGose]

100% agree with this.

Cecil saw a 3mph increase as a reliever, which isn't all that shocking or surprising.

 

I rememeber looking at Cecil's velocity charts, before they started only showing 3 yrs of data, and I think Cecil actually used to average around 91-92 as a starter during the first half of 2010, before seriously tailing off to being the Cecil we saw the last 2 years.

 

It's only because you are looking at Fangraphs which has ambiguous velocity data. If you check out Brook's Baseball you'll see that Cecil's velocity has never been this high at any point since his MLB debut, starting or relieving it doesn't matter.

 

1. Cecil's Player Card

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/tabs.php?player=446399&balls=-1&strikes=-1&b_hand=-1&time=month&minmax=ci&var=traj&s_type=2&gFilt=&startDate=01/01/2013&endDate=01/01/2014

 

2. Cecil's Velocity Graph

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/cache/ee7b06381b8f50add0d276528060936b.gif

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/plot_bytime.php?s_type=2&time=month&player=446399&gFilt=&pFilt=FA|SI|FC|CU|SL|CS|KN|CH|FS|SB&startDate=03/30/2007&endDate=06/17/2013&minmax=ci&var=mph

 

3. Cecil's 2012 Velocity Graph, you can see the velo bump in Sept when he became a reliever

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/cache/ae7b65a635ad0c3bc344c866bcc84fca.gif

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/plot_bytime.php?s_type=2&time=month&player=446399&gFilt=&pFilt=FA|SI|FC|CU|SL|CS|KN|CH|FS|SB&startDate=01/01/2012&endDate=01/01/2013&minmax=ci&var=mph

 

4. Cecil's 2013 Velocity Graph, you can clearly see the added velocity on every pitch

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/cache/20e6e14196641db095f2f93019fcb4ca.gif

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/plot_bytime.php?s_type=2&time=month&player=446399&gFilt=&pFilt=FA|SI|FC|CU|SL|CS|KN|CH|FS|SB&startDate=01/01/2013&endDate=01/01/2014&minmax=ci&var=mph

[sachmo55]

It's only because you are looking at Fangraphs which has ambiguous velocity data. If you check out Brook's Baseball you'll see that Cecil's velocity has never been this high at any point since his MLB debut, starting or relieving it doesn't matter.

 

1. Cecil's Player Card

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/tabs.php?player=446399&balls=-1&strikes=-1&b_hand=-1&time=month&minmax=ci&var=traj&s_type=2&gFilt=&startDate=01/01/2013&endDate=01/01/2014

 

2. Cecil's Velocity Graph

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/cache/ee7b06381b8f50add0d276528060936b.gif

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/plot_bytime.php?s_type=2&time=month&player=446399&gFilt=&pFilt=FA|SI|FC|CU|SL|CS|KN|CH|FS|SB&startDate=03/30/2007&endDate=06/17/2013&minmax=ci&var=mph

 

3. Cecil's 2012 Velocity Graph, you can see the velo bump in Sept when he became a reliever

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/cache/ae7b65a635ad0c3bc344c866bcc84fca.gif

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/plot_bytime.php?s_type=2&time=month&player=446399&gFilt=&pFilt=FA|SI|FC|CU|SL|CS|KN|CH|FS|SB&startDate=01/01/2012&endDate=01/01/2013&minmax=ci&var=mph

 

4. Cecil's 2013 Velocity Graph, you can clearly see the added velocity on every pitch

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/cache/20e6e14196641db095f2f93019fcb4ca.gif

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/plot_bytime.php?s_type=2&time=month&player=446399&gFilt=&pFilt=FA|SI|FC|CU|SL|CS|KN|CH|FS|SB&startDate=01/01/2013&endDate=01/01/2014&minmax=ci&var=mph

 

That's interesting

 

why is the fangraphs data so ambiguous?

 

Also, it saddens me to see cecil averaging close to 92 in mid 2010, before losing it.

[DuckDuckGose]

That's interesting

 

why is the fangraphs data so ambiguous?

 

Also, it saddens me to see cecil averaging close to 92 in mid 2010, before losing it.

 

Fangraphs uses the same PitchF/X data as Brook's Baseball so in a sense they are the same. IMO the ambiguity comes from tiny graphs with many data point and little filter tools. Basically just an info dump without very many tools to sort through and analyze the information.

 

IMO the differences comes in the purpose of the websites. Fangraph's PitchF/X data is more designed for a quick review and utilized as a tool to compare Pitch F/X data against career/seasonal stats in one location. Where as Brook's Baseball is strictly a website for PitchF/X. The specialization of the site has allowed Brook's to develop great ways to visualize and analyze their data in ways that are more in depth and filtered to your needs.

 

This is what Fangraph's has to say about Brook's;

 

As for outside sources, the first site I would recommend is BrooksBaseball.net, run by Dan Brooks. Dan, Harry Pavlidis, and Lucas Apostoleris have all come together to create the best website for PITCHf/x data available. The “Player Cards” that were introduced this year offer a tremendous amount of data that was previously unavailable. These three have charted pitches themselves, which also helps ensure the accuracy of the pitches compared to the PITCHf/x system which does so automatically. Taking pitch grips, pitcher’s statements, and other classifications that the system does not account for gives Brooks Baseball’s platform a bit of an edge over any other PITCHf/x resource. Brooks Baseball also carries live data, which is an added aspect that certainly makes it an even more appealing resource.

[admin]

I just want to say I wasn't disputing the velocity increase, I was just saying it's not the 5-6mph that some articles/people think it is.

[DuckDuckGose]

Ah gotcha, on some of his pitches he's 7mph at his lowest peak velocity. However, I agree the barometer should be Cecil's peak velocity in the bullpen, not at his worst as a SP. Therefore it's more like 1-3mph velocity increase depending on the pitch and your measuring stick.

 

One thing I noticed about Cecil's repertoire is that he has created velocity separation on all of his pitches. In prior seasons we had seen that Cecil threw all of his pitches around the same velocity. Now there is a definite gap between his hard and soft stuff which, is really playing up the change-up again and disrupting the hitter's timing. IMO this is a major contributor to his recent success as well and a factor that is often lost in the shuffle.

[KevinGregg]

We'll Mr. Gregg, I threw weighted baseballs at home to my brother when I was 17, and in a game I threw so fast no one could catch up with it, if it went accross the plate.

When it went accross the plate, it was so fast no body could see it. The problem was 50% of the time it went accross the plate and 50% of the time it went behind the batter, needless to say there were batters jumping back out of the batters box when I went into my wind up. My downfall was walking too many batters, but thats what pitching coaches are for. And in a small town like I was from, there was no such thing as PITCHING Coaches.

 

Im sure you got stronger but if you kept it up you would be doing more damage to your arm than a normal throwing program. The revolutionary idea here is that if you dont actually release the ball, you can make it much heavier and get all the increased strength you had with even less arm damage than a regular baseball.

[admin]

Ah gotcha, on some of his pitches he's 7mph at his lowest peak velocity. However, I agree the barometer should be Cecil's peak velocity in the bullpen, not at his worst as a SP. Therefore it's more like 1-3mph velocity increase depending on the pitch and your measuring stick.

 

One thing I noticed about Cecil's repertoire is that he has created velocity separation on all of his pitches. In prior seasons we had seen that Cecil threw all of his pitches around the same velocity. Now there is a definite gap between his hard and soft stuff which, is really playing up the change-up again and disrupting the hitter's timing. IMO this is a major contributor to his recent success as well and a factor that is often lost in the shuffle.

 

I'm curious, as a starter did he just not want to throw 100% velocity to save his arm, or was there just a decline from the start of his outing to the end. 4-5mph is a pretty big difference.

[Arkadium]

Didn't the Jays hire Ricky Hendo too? I haven't seen his face once since that "supposed" hiring.

[GD]

Didn't the Jays hire Ricky Hendo too? I haven't seen his face once since that "supposed" hiring.

 

I could have sworn that was a Notgraphs article.

[Arkadium]

I could have sworn that was a Notgraphs article.

 

Oh..................... f***!

[GD]

Oh..................... f***!

 

Haha, it took me a while to realize that too when it was first posted.

[Arkadium]

Lol that was a joke because of the Reyes and Lawrie injuries.

 

LOL it's pretty funny now that I re-read the article

 

“Like Rickey said, Rickey’s embarrassed. It’s not going to happen again on Rickey’s watch. Rickey guarantees it.”

[flafson]

You guys were talking about Moneyball in the other thread, this IS Moneyball right there with us hiring the number 1 reason our bullpen been so effective this year so far.

Delabar, Cecil and CJ are all on his program.

I don't know if anyone noticed but CJ touched 92mph tonight.

[Virgil_Hiltz]

and will someone give a listen to ex-Expo reliever Mike Marshall and his training and pitching methods?

But I suspect since his ideas are too radical that they won't.