Anybody now willing to admit they were wrong

[oakville69]

<<<< Quote Originally Posted by GeorgiaPeach View Post

I still want Rasmus gone. Gose at LG min. and losing Rasmus and his increasing salary would be beneficial. >>>

 

I can't disagree with that Chris , The only position where we have someone in AAA that can take over . In may I was all for this but now it seems he is cutting down his K rate and making hard contact more ( haven't looked at the #,s ) so he is building value .

 

 

 

I agree with Vik that this team only needs a rotation to compete and next year the depth is deeper in the rotation so maybe keeping Rasmus for another year might just be smarter

 

If you trade Colby, what do you get in return? prospect pitcher? prospect 2B?. Colby is better than Gose now, but maybe that changes in 2014. Gose has to be able to hit. He can't steal 1B.

[SAAviour]

Toronto Blue Jays 40-man Roster

# Pitchers B/T Ht Wt DOB

56 Mark Buehrle L-L 6'2" 245 Mar 23, 1979

27 Brett Cecil R-L 6'1" 215 Jul 2, 1986

50 Steve Delabar R-R 6'4" 230 Jul 17, 1983

43 R.A. Dickey R-R 6'2" 215 Oct 29, 1974

4 Kyle Drabek 60-day DL ** R-R 6'1" 230 Dec 8, 1987

48 J.A. Happ 60-day DL ** L-L 6'6" 195 Oct 19, 1982

36 Drew Hutchison 60-day DL ** L-R 6'2" 195 Aug 22, 1990

44 Casey Janssen R-R 6'3" 225 Sep 17, 1981

64 Chad Jenkins * R-R 6'3" 225 Dec 22, 1987

55 Josh Johnson L-R 6'7" 250 Jan 31, 1984

49 Brad Lincoln * L-R 6'0" 225 May 25, 1985

62 Aaron Loup L-L 6'0" 210 Dec 19, 1987

29 Dustin McGowan R-R 6'3" 230 Mar 24, 1982

23 Brandon Morrow 15-day DL * R-R 6'3" 200 Jul 26, 1984

35 Sean Nolin * L-L 6'5" 235 Dec 26, 1989

38 Darren Oliver R-L 6'3" 250 Oct 6, 1970

34 Ramon Ortiz 15-day DL * R-R 6'0" 175 May 23, 1973

57 Juan Perez R-L 6'0" 170 Sep 3, 1978

47 Luis Perez 60-day DL ** L-L 6'0" 210 Jan 20, 1985

58 Todd Redmond * R-R 6'3" 235 May 17, 1985

32 Esmil Rogers R-R 6'1" 190 Aug 14, 1985

21 Sergio Santos 60-day DL ** R-R 6'3" 240 Jul 4, 1983

31 Michael Schwimer * R-R 6'8" 240 Feb 19, 1986

37 Mickey Storey * R-R 6'1" 185 Mar 16, 1986

45 Neil Wagner R-R 6'0" 215 Jan 1, 1984

67 Chien-Ming Wang R-R 6'4" 225 Mar 31, 1980

51 Thad Weber * R-R 6'2" 205 Sep 28, 1984

# Catchers B/T Ht Wt DOB

9 J.P. Arencibia R-R 6'0" 200 Jan 5, 1986

6 A.J. Jimenez * R-R 6'0" 210 May 1, 1990

30 Josh Thole L-R 6'0" 215 Oct 28, 1986

# Infielders B/T Ht Wt DOB

1 Emilio Bonifacio S-R 5'11" 205 Apr 23, 1985

16 Mark DeRosa R-R 6'1" 215 Feb 26, 1975

10 Edwin Encarnacion R-R 6'2" 230 Jan 7, 1983

2 Ryan Goins * L-R 5'10" 170 Feb 13, 1988

Mauro Gomez * R-R 6'2" 230 Sep 7, 1984

3 Maicer Izturis S-R 5'8" 170 Sep 12, 1980

66 Munenori Kawasaki L-R 5'10" 165 Jun 3, 1981

13 Brett Lawrie 15-day DL * R-R 6'0" 225 Jan 18, 1990

26 Adam Lind L-L 6'2" 220 Jul 17, 1983

7 Jose Reyes 60-day DL ** S-R 6'1" 195 Jun 11, 1983

# Outfielders B/T Ht Wt DOB

19 Jose Bautista R-R 6'0" 190 Oct 19, 1980

53 Melky Cabrera S-L 6'0" 200 Aug 11, 1984

11 Rajai Davis R-R 5'9" 195 Oct 19, 1980

8 Anthony Gose * L-L 6'1" 195 Aug 10, 1990

28 Colby Rasmus L-L 6'2" 190 Aug 11, 1986

14 Moises Sierra * R-R 6'0" 230 Sep 24, 1988

 

There's the 40 man roster. How many of those guys would make it through waivers.

[SAAviour]

Ramon Ortiz. Todd Redmond. Mickey storey. Thad weber.

There are 46 guys on there.

[Chappy]

If AA can get some good value for Rasmus than I am all for moving him. Not sure how much he will make next season but around $7M? That would certainly help towards the overall payroll and provide this team some more assets for the minors that could either contribute as added depth or be flipped for other needs on the major league roster. That being said, I would be shocked if he was moved. AA won't risk taking a chance like that at this point.

[kgm1]

If AA can get some good value for Rasmus than I am all for moving him. Not sure how much he will make next season but around $7M? That would certainly help towards the overall payroll and provide this team some more assets for the minors that could either contribute as added depth or be flipped for other needs on the major league roster. That being said, I would be shocked if he was moved. AA won't risk taking a chance like that at this point.

 

Good post Vik , the 7mil that frees up along with JJ, Davis , and Oliver money freed up would give AA enough to try and get a free agent pitcher and catcher . Then option JPA to AAA as he isn't tradeable right now . Put Hutch and Drabek and Happ in AAA and wow depth for a change .

[Chappy]

Good post Vik , the 7mil that frees up along with JJ, Davis , and Oliver money freed up would give AA enough to try and get a free agent pitcher and catcher . Then option JPA to AAA as he isn't tradeable right now . Put Hutch and Drabek and Happ in AAA and wow depth for a change .

 

Ken I firmly believe payroll will go up by more than most think. Freeing us money will only help that cause, but I can see AA either making a big splash this winter or emptying out the farm to take on another big contract.

[S33n]

i was wrong about Lind. it was hard to see any light at the end of the 1400 AB of pure trash.

[TheHurl]

Ken I firmly believe payroll will go up by more than most think. Freeing us money will only help that cause, but I can see AA either making a big splash this winter or emptying out the farm to take on another big contract.

 

There is no doubt in my mind he'll look for pitching either at the deadline or off season or both. If we stay near .500 or even better get there I think he'll be a big time buyer at the deadline, I don't know what will go but I'm positive he'll be looking for a 2 year pitcher at least.

[Chappy]

There is no doubt in my mind he'll look for pitching either at the deadline or off season or both. If we stay near .500 or even better get there I think he'll be a big time buyer at the deadline, I don't know what will go but I'm positive he'll be looking for a 2 year pitcher at least.

 

I agree with this. If this team continues to play well into July, we probably see a big acquisition. As much as people don't want to completely mortgage the future, from AA's perspective, he has to do this and then when the time comes figure out how to fix the farm. There is no going back, he will push forward.

[GD]

No but Pillar is a 364/.403/.515 vs. Lefties (I don't care about the age to level that's still screams a guy that will be able to hit lefties at all levels)...I still don't know enough about his D but he screams a great long term Gose platoon/4th OF for the Jays. We'd just have zero OF depth in minors as we have to part ways with Sierra after this season.

 

Pillar is probably more suited to a corner OF.

[kgm1]

There is no doubt in my mind he'll look for pitching either at the deadline or off season or both. If we stay near .500 or even better get there I think he'll be a big time buyer at the deadline, I don't know what will go but I'm positive he'll be looking for a 2 year pitcher at least.

 

Christ , We should be selling even if we are competitive . at least the guys who are Free agents . JJ pitching well gives us more at the deadline than a comp pick and packaged with Oliver (If pitching well could get us something very good . Both pieces we won't have next year . If we gut our minor leagues any more I will be supremely pissed . no need .

 

If we caught lightning in a bottle in Long Dong Wong and Lucky E Rogers then we really have no need to add but a huge 40 man need to detract .

[kgm1]

Pillar is probably more suited to a corner OF.

 

Pillar is a tweener . Not good enough defensively for CF and not enough bat for a corner . Ceiling Casper Wells .

[Tuco]

I agree with this. If this team continues to play well into July, we probably see a big acquisition. As much as people don't want to completely mortgage the future, from AA's perspective, he has to do this and then when the time comes figure out how to fix the farm. There is no going back, he will push forward.

 

Agreed. The more I think about it the more it seems like AA is to even further empty the farm for win now improvements. It sucks but I guess thats what he signed up for when he dumped half the farm and created a 3 year or so window.

 

I dont think he will trade Sanchez but I could very easily see him trade Osuna. What does a package of something like Osuna+Gose+Nolin get us?

[Tuco]

Werent the Jays supposedly interested in Garza last year?

His value has taken a nosedive since then and hes a pending FA. I just looked at Starling Castro's numbers...damn what happened to that guy? Would he be a good buy low candidate with the idea of moving him over to 2B?

[GD]

Werent the Jays supposedly interested in Garza last year?

His value has taken a nosedive since then and hes a pending FA. I just looked at Starling Castro's numbers...damn what happened to that guy? Would he be a good buy low candidate with the idea of moving him over to 2B?

 

Brought this guy up in the trade thread. Big contract but I'd support trading for the kid. He's what, 23? Would be a nice 2B and a really good.

[Chappy]

Christ , We should be selling even if we are competitive . at least the guys who are Free agents . JJ pitching well gives us more at the deadline than a comp pick and packaged with Oliver (If pitching well could get us something very good . Both pieces we won't have next year . If we gut our minor leagues any more I will be supremely pissed . no need .

 

If we caught lightning in a bottle in Long Dong Wong and Lucky E Rogers then we really have no need to add but a huge 40 man need to detract .

 

If a team is in contention, selling off players at the deadline is like ripping out the balls of the players on that team. It sends a horrible message to the players and to the fan base. Selling off players works if this team is not contending, but if we are no way AA can do that unless he flips minor pieces like Oliver who we probably have little need for at this point, in addition to making a big splash. Guys like JJ are not going anywhere unless AA feels we are out of the race. Only teams like the Rays can get away with stuff like that because their fan base and players know there is no money to be spent.

[G-Snarls]

I agree with this. If this team continues to play well into July, we probably see a big acquisition. As much as people don't want to completely mortgage the future, from AA's perspective, he has to do this and then when the time comes figure out how to fix the farm. There is no going back, he will push forward.

 

Yep. And I'm glad he didn't do anything foolish yet this season despite the terrible start.

 

He's waiting to see what is working and what's not, what he needs, who is expendable and who is available.

 

It's frustrating to watch and not know what he's thinking, but I agree a trade deadline move of significance is almost certain if we are continuing to get better but need a boost, or if we tank again.

[backontop]

Lind suked during 2010, 2011 and 2012, why can't fans understand that? Yes let him help win all the games we can in 2013, but do not berate the Blue Jays for letting this nice and quite shy, yet still parasite, Lind go to the Yankees or one of the other three teams in the AL. East because I KNOW he will stank in 2014. BTW, have you noticed now that Steinbrenner has left us, the Yankees are no better then the Orioles, Red Sox and Rays. So best trade him to one of those four teams.

[Caper]

There is no doubt in my mind he'll look for pitching either at the deadline or off season or both. If we stay near .500 or even better get there I think he'll be a big time buyer at the deadline, I don't know what will go but I'm positive he'll be looking for a 2 year pitcher at least.

 

I think that that's what you really want to think.... so it feeds your dislike of AA. Very few contenders don't want pitching at the deadline.

[GD]

There is no doubt in my mind he'll look for pitching either at the deadline or off season or both. If we stay near .500 or even better get there I think he'll be a big time buyer at the deadline, I don't know what will go but I'm positive he'll be looking for a 2 year pitcher at least.

 

Yovanni Gallardo seems like a good bet as an AA target.

[ElNik2013]

Yep. And I'm glad he didn't do anything foolish yet this season despite the terrible start.

 

He's waiting to see what is working and what's not, what he needs, who is expendable and who is available.

 

It's frustrating to watch and not know what he's thinking, but I agree a trade deadline move of significance is almost certain if we are continuing to get better but need a boost, or if we tank again.

 

 

The fact that he didn't panic earlier is a good sign. I don't think he'll give up guys like Sanchez (who hasn't pitched in a month anyway), Osuna, Stroman. Maybe Nolin, but I doubt it.

 

I think we have to remember the team will get a boost when it gets Reyes, Morrow and Lawrie so you could argue those are acquisitions. I think if the team is at .500 or above by the ASG, he'll keep JJ and take the draft pick.

[GeorgiaPeach]

[quote=kgm1;53104

I can't disagree with that Chris , The only position where we have someone in AAA that can take over . In may I was all for this but now it seems he is cutting down his K rate and making hard contact more ( haven't looked at the #,s ) so he is building value .

 

I agree with Vik that this team only needs a rotation to compete and next year the depth is deeper in the rotation so maybe keeping Rasmus for another year might just be smarter

 

Well, someone in the OF needs to go. Keeping Gose in the minors another year is silly.

[G-Snarls]

I think if the team is at .500 or above by the ASG, he'll keep JJ and take the draft pick.

 

Agreed. And that makes sense. If we're not in it, you see if you can get something better than a draft pick. If not its a qualifying offer and see ya later. I can't see us gambling on extending him, even if he's quite a bit better in the second half.

[Chappy]

Well, someone in the OF needs to go. Keeping Gose in the minors another year is silly.

 

The ideal scenario is to move Rasmus for another piece that can contribute almost immediately. This team has a hole at 2B that needs to be addressed and could use some more rotation depth. The ideal scenario for me is to get a prospect in AA or AAA that fits that criteria and profiles to be something that can meaningfully contribute.

 

That being said, I have a feeling AA will move Gose. I don't think he will be willing to take the risk of moving Rasmus.

[Chappy]

Agreed. And that makes sense. If we're not in it, you see if you can get something better than a draft pick. If not its a qualifying offer and see ya later. I can't see us gambling on extending him, even if he's quite a bit better in the second half.

 

Either case JJ shouldn't be a part of this team next year. I would much rather sign a short-term veteran and have Hutch in the mix. We have some depth in the minors that may be ready at some point next season as well. Investing big money in SP is just not a good idea.

[ElNik2013]

Agreed. And that makes sense. If we're not in it, you see if you can get something better than a draft pick. If not its a qualifying offer and see ya later. I can't see us gambling on extending him, even if he's quite a bit better in the second half.

 

I also think that if the team is at or above .500 by the ASG, it would be because they would have continued to pitch better thus putting less pressure on AA to trade for pitching. What I think is inevitable and actually a must, is for AA to deal a couple of relievers because they may lose them for nothing when the guys come off the 60-day dl.

[ElNik2013]

The ideal scenario is to move Rasmus for another piece that can contribute almost immediately. This team has a hole at 2B that needs to be addressed and could use some more rotation depth. The ideal scenario for me is to get a prospect in AA or AAA that fits that criteria and profiles to be something that can meaningfully contribute.

 

That being said, I have a feeling AA will move Gose. I don't think he will be willing to take the risk of moving Rasmus.

 

 

I think if Rasmus was to be moved, it would take place in the offseason. I doubt he moves Gose in July, just because he's struggling so much in Buffalo, his value must've gone down by quite a bit. I certainly wouldn't rule it out though.

[John_Havok]

I also think that if the team is at or above .500 by the ASG, it would be because they would have continued to pitch better thus putting less pressure on AA to trade for pitching. What I think is inevitable and actually a must, is for AA to deal a couple of relievers because they may lose them for nothing when the guys come off the 60-day dl.

 

That's where guys like Juan Perez, thad webber, Todd redmond and Mickey storey get dfa'd and whoever has options ges sent down until a deal is made

[ElNik2013]

Either case JJ shouldn't be a part of this team next year. I would much rather sign a short-term veteran and have Hutch in the mix. We have some depth in the minors that may be ready at some point next season as well. Investing big money in SP is just not a good idea.

 

 

Agreed. Only way he should be on the team next year would be if he accepted the qualifying offer and had the motivation to pitch for a contract although it hasn't much helped this year. Depth will be better next year for sure as guys like Nolin and Stroman should be in AAA and even in the bp guys like Stilson and Carreno could replace a guy like Delabar if he was to be moved, which I doubt.

[Laika]

The ideal scenario is to move Rasmus for another piece that can contribute almost immediately. This team has a hole at 2B that needs to be addressed and could use some more rotation depth. The ideal scenario for me is to get a prospect in AA or AAA that fits that criteria and profiles to be something that can meaningfully contribute.

 

That being said, I have a feeling AA will move Gose. I don't think he will be willing to take the risk of moving Rasmus.

 

Rasmus is confounding the issue by playing better than expected (so far).

He's reeled in the strikeout rate and he's already at 2 WAR after just 65 games. He could tap the production brakes a bit and still have a 4 win season.

 

Of course, I guess we're all kind of expecting him to slump hard in the 2nd half again.

 

If I was at the helm, I'd have half a mind to go into 2014 with Rasmus the nominal CF and Gose on the bench. Bautista and Melky are both rapidly losing their range and the health of their legs. And on top of that, Rasmus is a flake. Having a guy like Gose right there on the 25 man, ready to step in and chase balls down, would be pretty key.

 

Trading Rasmus or Gose for a 2B is also a viable route though. Then you could just sign a guy like Chris Young, and make him your 4th OF and full time player against LHP (DH or CF platoon)