Can Dickey Blame the Offense Again?

[Solaxys]

I know last time Dickey pointed out that our offense was Mosquito Ball; and subsequently shifted the loss to them.

And us, being the bandwagon-ers we are, jumped on his boat and pointed spears of fingers at our poor offense.

 

And now the offense provided him with 5 runs, will he blame the organization for not closing the dome on a sunny day?

 

Don't know what goes through these players' minds as soon as a ballgame is over and they are back in their hotel suites.

I'd be going crazy if I was the reason why this loss happened, and MAKE SURE it doesn't happen again...

 

But that's just me and I thought that's what Baseball players mentality should be as well.

Dangit Dickey!

[GD]

Did Dickey ever actually say that? Is there a link?

[Solaxys]

Well he didn't directly say "hey it was their fault" but he said something along the lines of the offense being lackluster didn't give him any solace in accidentally throwing bad pitches (or w.e).

I am pretty sure he said it; it was quoted everywhere including the Star.

[Laika]

RA Dickey is pitching barely better than replacement level.

 

We traded Travis d'Arnaud and Noah Syndergaard for him. That's a top ~20 position prospect and a top ~50 pitching prospect.

 

Syndergaard has a 2.35 FIP in A+ and is getting excellent reviews. He's striking out more hitters and walking less hitters than Aaron Sanchez is at the same level.

d'Arnaud is hurt right now, obviously, but Arencibia has a .299 wOBA and continues to be an arrogant, replacement level scrub.

 

Sad NJH is sad

 

At least Wojo's AAA promotion is off to a rocky start, Hech is hitting like a girl, Marisnick is whiffing a lot, and Hendo's arm exploded.

[ElNik2013]

RA Dickey is pitching barely better than replacement level.

 

We traded Travis d'Arnaud and Noah Syndergaard for him. That's a top ~20 position prospect and a top ~50 pitching prospect.

 

Syndergaard has a 2.35 FIP in A+ and is getting excellent reviews. He's striking out more hitters and walking less hitters than Aaron Sanchez is at the same level.

d'Arnaud is hurt right now, obviously, but Arencibia has a .299 wOBA and continues to be an arrogant, replacement level scrub.

 

Sad NJH is sad

 

At least Wojo's AAA promotion is off to a rocky start, Hech is hitting like a girl, Marisnick is whiffing a lot, and Hendo's arm exploded.

 

 

If Syndergaard stays healthy, he's a stud and might be better than Sanchez once it's all said and done, bottomline, they should've kept BOTH period. Too late now, at least fire the fools running the Blue Jays

[havok24]

RA Dickey is pitching barely better than replacement level.

 

We traded Travis d'Arnaud and Noah Syndergaard for him. That's a top ~20 position prospect and a top ~50 pitching prospect.

 

Syndergaard has a 2.35 FIP in A+ and is getting excellent reviews. He's striking out more hitters and walking less hitters than Aaron Sanchez is at the same level.

d'Arnaud is hurt right now, obviously, but Arencibia has a .299 wOBA and continues to be an arrogant, replacement level scrub.

 

Sad NJH is sad

 

At least Wojo's AAA promotion is off to a rocky start, Hech is hitting like a girl, Marisnick is whiffing a lot, and Hendo's arm exploded.

 

 

Man Syndergaard is going to be a stud pitcher. f***ing hell.

[admin]

Well he didn't directly say "hey it was their fault" but he said something along the lines of the offense being lackluster didn't give him any solace in accidentally throwing bad pitches (or w.e).

I am pretty sure he said it; it was quoted everywhere including the Star.

 

Yeah he pretty much said it. Funny thing is, I think it was after a game he gave up four runs.

Was against this trade from the beginning, and most people told us to shut up and be happy we're contenders. Bet they changed that tune now.

We gave up, what we should have sent to get Latos. That would look much better in our rotation for the next few years.

[IronLadle]

You should never give up more than you get back - a very basic and logical principle.

[Laika]

I still think Dickey turns it around. Something is way off with the guy.

 

They don't even look like knuckleballs half the time... it's like he's just lobbing changeups in there all day.

[oakville69]

When Dickey was traded to the Jays many commentators said that he pitched better in Dome conditions, because his knuckleball wouldn't be affected by the wind.

 

If so, why hasn't Rogers ordered the Dome closed during all Dickey home starts?

 

The Dome was closed during the home opener & Dickey gave up 4 runs, but some of those runs were due to JPA being unable to catch Dickey.

 

Would MLB get mad at the Jays for closing the game during Dickey starts? Could Rogers open the dome after Dickey finishes pitching?

 

I realize that when the roof is open , it is a more enjoyable experience, but given Dickey's limitations, wouldn't fans want to have Dickey win the game??

[Solaxys]

When Dickey was traded to the Jays many commentators said that he pitched better in Dome conditions, because his knuckleball wouldn't be affected by the wind.

 

If so, why hasn't Rogers ordered the Dome closed during all Dickey home starts?

 

The Dome was closed during the home opener & Dickey gave up 4 runs, but some of those runs were due to JPA being unable to catch Dickey.

 

Would MLB get mad at the Jays for closing the game during Dickey starts? Could Rogers open the dome after Dickey finishes pitching?

 

I realize that when the roof is open , it is a more enjoyable experience, but given Dickey's limitations, wouldn't fans want to have Dickey win the game??

 

I highly doubt "Baby"ing our Ace is going to help.

Honestly, he pitched under similar settings all his career and attained the "Star" and "Ace" status.

If he comes over to AL and performs well under his previous year's Cy Young state, then you have a problem.

[And you gain a lot of respect for Wakefield]

[oakville69]

I highly doubt "Baby"ing our Ace is going to help.

Honestly, he pitched under similar settings all his career and attained the "Star" and "Ace" status.

If he comes over to AL and performs well under his previous year's Cy Young state, then you have a problem.

[And you gain a lot of respect for Wakefield]

 

I looked at Dickey's stats this year.

 

With the roof open he has given up 7 runs in 6 innings on May 4th against.

 

the Mariners & 2 runs on May 20th against the Rays in 8 innings & 6 runs today in 6 and 2/3 innings.

 

Total innings pitched with open roof at Rogers Centre. 20.66. ERA 6.53

 

Total innings pitched with roof closed. 22.66. ERA 4.76.

 

Thus, his ERA is lower when the dome is closed.

[oakville69]

I highly doubt "Baby"ing our Ace is going to help.

Honestly, he pitched under similar settings all his career and attained the "Star" and "Ace" status.

If he comes over to AL and performs well under his previous year's Cy Young state, then you have a problem.

[And you gain a lot of respect for Wakefield]

 

I do think Dickey's ERA will be higher in the AL because the offense is stronger. Dickey has acknowledged back issues.

 

If Dickey played in Tampa where he would have guaranteed Dome conditions for half the season, his ERA would probably be lower.

[CHRIS]

Hasn't he been pitching through back issues all year?

 

Back and neck I think.

 

I'm pretty okay with having Dickey over the next few years. Based on his comments, I wonder if he will adjust his pre-game a bit to get the feel of the knuckleball sooner.

[Slade]

Dickey never said anything about the offense, that was a troll on the other board.

[Solaxys]

Dickey never said anything about the offense, that was a troll on the other board.

 

No; it was in his post-game interview. The Toronto Star had it. Unless you are saying The Star is the troll.

[GD]

Unless you are saying The Star is the troll.

 

The Star is a troll, but that's another matter.

[crrr]

RA Dickey is pitching barely better than replacement level.

 

We traded Travis d'Arnaud and Noah Syndergaard for him. That's a top ~20 position prospect and a top ~50 pitching prospect.

 

Syndergaard has a 2.35 FIP in A+ and is getting excellent reviews. He's striking out more hitters and walking less hitters than Aaron Sanchez is at the same level.

d'Arnaud is hurt right now, obviously, but Arencibia has a .299 wOBA and continues to be an arrogant, replacement level scrub.

 

Sad NJH is sad

 

At least Wojo's AAA promotion is off to a rocky start, Hech is hitting like a girl, Marisnick is whiffing a lot, and Hendo's arm exploded.

 

A top 50 pitching prospect...?

 

What portion of top 50 pitching prospects pitch 300 innings in the MLB?

[crrr]

They showed a statistic today which said people are hittiner .400 on his fastball, and I tihnk like .263 on the Knuckler.

 

The main problem here is he's having some trouble getting over. Given that hasnt been a major problem for him for some time, I feel pretty confident he'll figure it out

[Nox]

A top 50 pitching prospect...?

 

What portion of top 50 pitching prospects pitch 300 innings in the MLB?

 

http://www.piratesprospects.com/2012/06/updating-the-trade-surplus-values.html

 

Decent public look at prospect values based on BA rankings.

[Clownthopoulos]

dickey seems like a good guy

but hes not playing well enough at all

 

this is a guy we are paying big money and mortgaged our future for

hes playing like a loser

[Nox]

ZiPS projects a 4.11 ERA ROS and Steamer 4.14. Do they take the fact that he's a knuckler into consideration, or just use standard pitcher ageing curves? Either way, he's obviously a nightmare to project - just curious as to how they handle it.

 

I know Szymborski said a while ago on Twitter he had no f***ing clue what to do with Dickey.

[GD]

I know Szymborski said a while ago on Twitter he had no f***ing clue what to do with Dickey.

 

He hasn't tweeted anything about that, I don't think. Was it a live chat?

[Nox]

He hasn't tweeted anything about that, I don't think. Was it a live chat?

 

 

Very possible. Could have been a FanGraphs chat last year that I'm remembering.

[GD]

lol, this isn't surprising. I'd like to see what the Jays analytics department came up with as a projection. As much as we criticize them, they surely had their people come up with something before making such a huge investment.

 

"His ERA and WHIP are good, let's get him" lol

[Nox]

lol, this isn't surprising. I'd like to see what the Jays analytics department came up with as a projection. As much as we criticize them, they surely had their people come up with something before making such a huge investment.

 

I'm pretty sure it was something like:

 

8! + Ace + VETRIN + WINDOW OF CONTENSHUN = 20 game winner = would acquire at all costs

[crrr]

http://www.piratesprospects.com/2012/06/updating-the-trade-surplus-values.html

 

Decent public look at prospect values based on BA rankings.

 

So, based on that what is Syndergaard and d'Arnaud really worth relative to Dickey? Jays are definitely in win mode now so for them you should discount even more...

 

Also, I would say it's accurate to say Syndergaard and d'Arnaud are really close to 50 and 20, respectively... Also d'Arnaud is injured so he's providing 0 value. Dickey would be around 6 minimum, I would say based on how they do it.

[Nox]

Oh god. I mean, from the moment the idea of acquiring Dickey entered AA's mind, there should have been someone, even a group of someones, who's job consisted of using maths to become more familiar than anyone else in baseball with the ageing curve of knuckleball pitchers. I kind of assumed that such a report was created, sent to AA, and sent to the special filing cabinet in the trash can, but it never really occurred to me that they didn't even do a proper analysis.

 

Oh, I'm sure someone tried to do a real analysis. But the one that was used in the board room was the one quoted above.

 

When Perry Minisian and AA put their heads together, all rational thought is sucked into a vortex of anti-knowledge.

[GD]

I don't think anyone in the Blue Jays' FO besides maaaaaaybe Dan Evans know how to use a calculator, but I can imagine how that would go.

 

Dan Evans: Shouldn't we at least consider that his uptick in K% and O-Swing% may be unsustaina-

 

Beeston: Were those... stats?

 

Anthoupolos: What the f***? You're fired.

[Nox]

So, based on that what is Syndergaard and d'Arnaud really worth relative to Dickey? Jays are definitely in win mode now so for them you should discount even more...

 

Based on that, ~$45M in surplus.

 

But keep in mind that that's using $5M/WAR which is pretty outdated.

 

Using something more up to date (but still very conservative) like $8M/WAR we're talking about something north of $60M in value.

 

No matter where we were on the win curve coming into the year, it doesn't justify that sort of investment for 1 year of RA Dickey.

 

Also d'Arnaud is injured so he's providing 0 value.

 

That works both ways though. Dickey has been s***** this year and has actually provided negative value.